TPC300/400 block wiring

[Anonymous]

My question is simply do you need a TCP for each isolated block on your layout. Seems this would be more expensive than just DCS system if so. I have a modern zw w/2 180 bricks and would like to run only conventional , but would like to use remote as I have command base and the Cab1 just sitting on a shelf. Thanks for any help as I am not too up on the different control systems and wiring necessary.

[Anonymous]

Why not email Lionel and ask them. They would have the answer, but you'll probably recieve a reply saying that they don't answer questions such as those.

Trust me, I emailed Lionel once, asking about their #38 water tower from last year.
Their reply was "Our technology has improved over the last 40 years".

I'm sure some one here can help.

steel rails

[csxt30]

[#welcome] Ralph ! I see you live not all that far from me, & there is another fellow from Jamestown N.Y. And if you get a chance, come on over to the Coffee Pot !!
Well, it's been my experience so far, to use a powermaster, along with the cab- 1 & base. I'm not sure if a TPC is necessary or not, but that may depend on the size of you layout & maybe how much power you need, for engines & lighted cars, etc. There are 2 powermasters now , one at 80 watts & one at 135 watts. Hopefully someone will be along soon with more info. Also, you may want to tell us what all you will be running, the size of your layout, or trackage, to determine your power needs.
Thanks & hope this helps some !

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the quick replies. My layout is approximately 12x21' I probably will run some post war as well as current locos. At present I am running one MTH Hudson and looking for good passenger car set to go with it . Also freight. Do not envision particularly long consist or lighting other than passenger cars and a caboose here and there. My trackwork is gargraves as are all my switches laid on plywood /homosote with cork roadbed. I , to make long story short, look at the power required not that great. As I said earlier I am not too experienced and may be underestimating my needs. I would say that two to three trains at any one time would be my estimate. Thanks again for your help. Whoops lost my train(no pun intended) of thought. My concern is if I were to have say 6-7 isolated blocks on my layout would this require 6-7 TCP's or powermasters ?

[Anonymous]

"My concern is if I were to have say 6-7 isolated blocks on my layout would this require 6-7 TCP's or powermasters ?"

It depends! Your ZW can stand in for up to four powermasters. Take a look at the layout and see how you would want to move a conventional locomotive/train through your blocking scheme. The old fashioned way to do this was to use rotary multi pole switches. You would assign say a letter to each power supply and say a number to each block. By rotating the switches to the appopriate settings you could route power from any of the power sources to any one of the blocks. If you want to get a little more advanced, you can tie in a BPC (block power controller) which is a TMCC controlled version of the rotary switches. The BPC manual is available for download from the Lionel web site. Just change the TPC's in the examples to the output channels on the ZW.

A TPC will allow you to throw additional power to a block (aka 300-400 watts) and supports macro keys for control of PS-1 and PS-2 functions in conventional mode. If you don't need these functions, don't buy them.

[wrmcclellan]

RWT,

I recommend you start with 2 TPC-300s and divide your layout into 2 POWER DISTRICTS. This division could be for two main track loops or you could divide the layout in half. You can add additional TPCs later if needed.

I also recommend you consider having some blocks (toggle switches) within each power district to aid in troubleshooting the layout should a short in the trackwork occur. Blocks make finding the short a lot easier by limiting the track section length you are troubleshooting.

I also recommend you set up sidings with toggle switches so you can kill the power to parked trains and save the power for trains that are running.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

RWT,

Your modern ZW with 2 180-watt powerhouses already gives you 2 power districts.

There are 2 ways to operate the layout using conventional engines.

1) Have a power district for each isolated block section. When a train crosses a block boundary, you will have to switch the track # that you are controlling with the cab-1 in order to regain control of the engine.

2) Have 2 power districts for 2 engines (or 3 districts for 3 engines) and switch the isolated block sections between the power districts. When an engine is going to leave one block and enter another one, you must assign the new block to the same power district as the old block before the engine crosses the block boundary, otherwise you will lose control of the engine. The assignment of blocks to power districts can be done with one SPDT toggle switch per block for 2 power districts or one SP3T rotary switch per block for 3 power districts. Alternatively, you can use the BPC.

You can have 3 or 4 power districts by adding 1 or 2 more 180-watt pohos to your ZW.

Personally, I find block control rather messy and since I am running primarily in command mode, I have split the layout into 2 separate loops, each powered by a TPC for those few times I want to run a conventional engine (no finer block granularity).

Daniel Lang

[Anonymous]

You actually have 4 potential Power Districts/Blocks available to you with your ZW. Each output can be assigned a seperate TR and controlled independantly. If you need 180 watts per channel, you can add additional PowerHouse Bricks.

[wrmcclellan]

Daniel,

Good catch. I missed that RWT was using a modern ZW, so he does not need TPCs for conventional control. Reading the PC screen with bifocals is a challenge sometimes.

I should have said that depending on the size of the layout, one may need additional blocks within a power district. There is nothing worse than poking around, removing sections and center pins, etc., on 30 feet of track looking for a short circuit (and it does happen), particularly if the track is ballasted.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

I want to thank everyone for their help. I think I am reading into this that a power district and a block are two different things. I plan to use toggles to switch off and on my blocks, but I thought to run the train , particularly MTH PS1 or 2/s I would also neet TPC or Powermaster in addition to command base and CAB1 for remote operation. Again thanks for the help as I am new to all of this.

[wrmcclellan]

RWT - good luck and post any new issues you might face. The CTT gang is always happy to help you enjoy the hobby!

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

By definition any section of track isolated from another section becomes a "block" irregardless of command or conventional control. Blocks often refer to sections of track that you denote for independant control of trains, usually by varying track voltage in convnetional mode (e.g. a CONTROL block).

Power districts are used to denote setcions of track fed by a given power supply. The emphasis is on managing power (watts) rather than direct control of trains. It is usually more of a concern in conjunction with command control operations as you don't vary the track volatge. You could have multiple sections of track (blocks) fed by a single power supply. You would have a single power district but multiple POWER blocks.

Lets say I have a four loops of track with switches connecting each loop to the next one. I put center track isolation pins in each crossover track from one loop to the other. I definitely have four "blocks". How I wire up the blocks affects the power district concept as well as control aspects.

I could take a single TPC-400 and tie together two 180 watt power houses. This gives me a single source of power with a total capacity of 360 watts. If I take and wire the output terminals to all four blocks in parallel, I still only have one power district (one power supply). I have four POWER blocks but I only have one CONTROL block as I can't vary the voltage of each of the POWER blocks independantly. This scenario might make sense in a command only envrionment and is cheaper than the following alternative but I would not recommend doing this. You have one breaker and a lot of power passing through it. A short under these conditions could be very nasty, even with quick blow breakers.

Lets take your modern ZW and sub that in for the TPC. Same number of Power House supplies, same total wattage. I feed each loop with one of the output channels. I now have two power districts (one for each Power House) in four POWER blocks and depending on how the ZW is set up, potentially four CONTROL blocks. If I program the ZW to allow varying of the power to each channel independantly I have four CONTROL blocks as I can vary the voltage in a given block without affecting the other ones. I still have a total of 360 watts available but a potentail short is at a much lower current and less likely to cause damage. I can also program the ZW in other fashions and change the number of control blocks accordingly.

I hope this helps

chuck

[Anonymous]

Chuck and all the rest a big thanks. Chuck I think I now am getting a clearer picture of this. It's amazing how one with (I think) average intelligence can be so "novice" in things with which he has no experience. That's why this forum and those of you with the experience are so great. Hopefully now I can go on from here at least until my next brain clog.

[tschmidt]

RWT- Where in WNY are you? I am in Jamestown and there are a few of us in this area who like trains.

TomS

[eZAK]

Aside from what Chuck is saying,

I control 4 blocks with 2 TPC's using a BPC.
You can also add on-off-on (SPDT) switches, or relays, to give you control of up to 8 blocks from two TPC's.

And Yes you do need a TPC 400 to control PS-1 & PS-2.

Also, for planning power consumption, a good and easy rule of thumb is to figure on using 2 watts per square foot of layout space.

Try it! It works!

[Anonymous]

"And Yes you do need a TPC 400 to control PS-1 & PS-2."

Or a TPC-300.

You can "control" normal functions on PS-1 and PS-2 loco's but programming the more advanced functions is tricky. Ther are a couple of pages in the ZW manual that address this. CAB-1 can not put out ultra short bell/horn pulses so Lionel programmed in AUX 1 and 9 keys (see page 14) to facilitate this. The TPC's have "macro" buttons that send the short DC pulses and volatge swing shifts the way a Z-4000 would to access the more advaned features of PS-1 and PS-2 under conventional control.