train to fit in 60x20 inch space

[Anonymous]

Hi all. I bet this forum gets a lot around the holidays. Every year I set up a little Christmas village and this year I only have a 60 x 20 inch surface. I want to have a little railroad to go around it. So, my question is, is there a small inexpensive train set to fit within the space?

[Dr. John]

Your space is too small for an oval of O-27 track. You might consider a trolley line in O-27 with bumpers at both ends. Trolleys are often available on eBay from Lionel or Industrial Rails. Bachman makes an On30 ( O scale on HO gauge track) Trolley set for Christmas villages under their brand name and also through Dept. 56 (although the Dept. 56 version may have been discontinued)

Another alternative would be to have an N scale layout, but that might be too small for your Christmas village.

And by the way, welcome to the forum!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for response. Size doesn't matter, but I would like to turn it on and leave it going for a while.

[Anonymous]

The Bachmann On30 sets won't fare much better than O gauge (or O27) on that 20" measure--just too tight a measure for O27 track, and pretty darn close to the edge of the platform for the HO track you would need for the On30 trains. You're okay as far as the five-foot measure is concerned, but it sure would be good if you could work in a few more inches on that other measure.

I know that if I was absolutely restricted to 20x60 dimensions, I wouild elect to go with N scale. At least the trains would appear to be getting a decent run, and not just chasing their tails around and around. There are all kinds of very affordable and reliable N gauge train sets out there. Pick up a copy of "Model Railroader" magazine and check through the ads to get an idea of what's available and the prices. Check Trainworld's ad, in particular, since they usually offer very good pricing.

[Anonymous]

I just installed a Bachmann On30 trolley "reversing" set on my Christmas layout. I think it's new this year, and uses special Bachmann reversing track. It runs in a straight or curving line, so it will fit anywhere. You can set the electronics in the "trolley barn" from a short delay before reversing, to a looooong one. Got mine at Boscovs, but they now seem to be sold out ($79.). Nicholas Smith Trains may still have them at $79. Micro-Mark had them for $99. A very neat item. Joe

[SPFan]

Search the web for ETS trolleys. Their track is 13.5" diameter measured at the center of the rails. There are a number of trolleys including their own that will run on this track. It is roughly O gauge.
Pete

[Anonymous]

I'm curious about the radius of Kline's SuperStreets. It looks as if an oval might fit your needs along with Kline's Trolley. I'm sure someone here in the forum knows if this would work or not. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dtpowell

I'm curious about the radius of Kline's SuperStreets. It looks as if an oval might fit your needs along with Kline's Trolley. I'm sure someone here in the forum knows if this would work or not. Best of luck.

Is anyone actually SELLING SuperStreets? I sure have'nt seen any except for catalog and K-Line booth at York.

[FJ and G]

for that space I'd go N scale if I were you.

But the trolley would be nice; along with Christmas buildings.

[Jumijo]

No offense meant to anyone here who has suggested trollies, but I've read several stories in CTT of O gauge trollies catching fire the past few months. The trollie on fire is obviously bad enough, but placing one under a Christmas tree could start a confligration. Especially where you want to just turn it on and leave it going for a while. No way would I even think of doing that.

Jim

[FJ and G]

Jim

I saw that in Jan CTT. The mini article (or letter) left me a bit confused.

The article stated that there was a trolley fire, but no reason was given.

It would be nice to know what or how the fire started so that similar incidents can be avoided.

Talk about a hot trolley, tho (or Streetcar burning w/desire)

[Jumijo]

David,

That incident was only the latest. Kent Johnson's dad had a trolley burn up. It was written about several issues back on the editorial page. Since then, several others have written in to tell of similar experiences. Say what you will. I wouldn't run one of them period, let alone under a dried out Christmas tree. I just wouldn't chance it.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Ditto about N scale. If you have a little more space, you might want to consider building a small layout on a hollow door. The sizes range from 26"x80" to 36"x80". You could do a loop of O27 track on one of these doors and even a siding is possible. The hollow doors are available at places like Lowes and Home Depot. They are very lightweight and portable. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Both articles about burning trollies seemed to have stressed that they were just turned on and left to run unattended. To me it seems this is the dangerous part.

I got some of the K-line Superstreets over the summer from Trainworld in Brooklyn and really like it. I can hardly wait for more releases. The first release is the tight radius that makes a 16" circle this could be expanded with streghts to make a longer run. The K-line Porter or Plymouth will run just fine on this tight curve as will any 4 wheel trolley and many 8 wheel ones. The short 4 wheel ore cars they sell with some of the Plymouths make a good looking train.

[lionelsoni]

You can get 24-inch doors; but even a 26-inch door is too small for O27.

Going to a smaller scale won't help as much as it might seem, because the minimum radius tends to be about the same all the way down. Atlas does apparently make a 9 3/4-inch n-scale curve, which would almost fit in 20 inches (allowing for the length of the ties). Notice that this is not much smaller than the 12 1/2 inches of O27.

The ETS set is number 5051. It has a Prague-style streetcar, a complete 170-mm-radius circle (6.693 inches), two 120-mm (4.724 inches) straights, and a transformer (probably a DC supply) for 199 euros. I couldn't find a price in dollars. Additional straights are 3 euros.

[FJ and G]

I'm still confused why they caught fire.

Emmaandy writes that they were turned on and left to run unattended and that's the dangerous part.

What is the dangerous part?

1. That they were left unattended?

or

2. That they burned up?

I accidentally left a train running for about 4 days and there was no fire. i don't own a trolley. Are they more suceptible?

[Jumijo]

I'm assuming they are more suceptible, based on the number of stories of them burning in CTT. The guy with the story in this month's issue shut off the power, unplugged the transformer and went off to another room after running his trains. When he came back a few minutes later, the trolly was on fire - after the power cord was pulled from the wall!!!

Jim

[Anonymous]

What is a door? And what about Z-scale? How big is the average turn for N-scale? I could get a piece of plywood to set on top of the surface to make it a little bigger.

[choochin3]

I think the owners of the burning trolleys were using postwar ZW transformers.
The circut breakers in the ZWs often don't trip fast enough or trip at all.
About the guy with the trolley that burned after he unplugged the transformer,
that trolley was probably allready smouldering or overheated before he pulled the plug!
I don't see a problem with using a modern power supply like the ZW2,or Z4000,
with fast trip circuit breakers.
Don't blame the trolley,look at the power source!

Carl T.

[Anonymous]

What/whose trolleys are you folks talking about here? Lionel? K-Line? MTH? Someone else?

[Anonymous]

Yes a trolley is an option, but I did ask a question up there^

[Anonymous]

A door is a panel that is hinged and opens and shuts to allow one to enter a room.

Sorry to sound like a jerk but they mean a standard door. Which is an easy way to make a layout. I really think you should look into the Superstreets product from K-line as it will fit your very limited space. If you want 3 rail O scale this is your best bet unless you want to fool around with flextrack. I know knothing of N scale, Sorry.

Yes I ment leaving it (the train) alone was dangerous. We all have exception that prove the rule stories. If you did this thing once that was dangerous and had no problem, good for you. You are lucky. But I bet you don't do this all the time because it really is pretty dumb. It is an unnessesary risk to your family and neighbors if you are in an apartment. If your house burns by doing something like that as far as I am concerned it is your fault. With all this recent press it seems that the trollies are dangerous but I would bet that regular toy trains have started more "problems" in the big picture.

One trolley was an Industrial Rail unit and one was Lionel. I would still get one of either. I feel they are both safe if used with care.

[Anonymous]

To answer your question.
If you're looking for an electric train set to fit your space and price requirements. You will probably need to look at "N" scale and use the standard 9 3/4 radius curves in the set. There are several good manufacturers. Bachmann, Altas, Athearn to name a few.
In '"O" scale. A Point to Piont (back and forth) Trolley type layout may be the best you can achieve since the minimum diameter is 27".

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emmaandy

One trolley was an Industrial Rail unit and one was Lionel. I would still get one of either. I feel they are both safe if used with care.

I'm running a Industrial Rail on my regular layout, and Bachmann on my Christmas layout. Both are point-to-point. Getting rid of them would be like getting rid of our dishwasher because our previous one started smoking. S*** happens. Joe

[lionelsoni]

If the 20 inches is a hard-and-fast limit, the N-scale 9 3/4-inch curves aren't sharp enough. The left-over 1/2 inch is only 80 scale inches, compared to a 128-inch loading gauge and not allowing for any swing-out on the curves.

Isn't Industrial Rail out of business?

[FJ and G]

back to original question:

you said you've only got 60 x 20 inch surface space.

Need clarification on that meas¨r´ment

Is that space due to clearance problems (hallways, etc)??

If you can temporarily expand that space while running trains, there's an excellent plan in MR 05 Trackplanning magazine that shoes a layout about your size that incorporates hinges and fold-downs that could temporarily enlarge your area by several factors.

Then the layout folds neatly in on itself

This would expand your horizons, so to speak.

My buddy did something like this but much different. I plan to meet him in next several weeks and get pictures for this forum

[Anonymous]

Industrial rail was absorbed by some other co. It's too bad I really like(d) thier products and the price was right. Especially the log buggies and even those dangerous trollies.
One practice that I really liked was that they would keep cars in production over a few runs each time changing the #'s so if you were careful you could build up a set of several cars with the same paint but different #'s.

I think that part of the problem of the trollies may be that there are smaller moters that run hot and there is very little metal inside thats acts as both wieght and a heat sink to absorb some of that heat and let it out gradually. Instead the heat can build and build until the shell melts. Of course there may be other factors like a derailment that arcs the rail and starts the fire. These may be more prone to this because of the bumper operation. They have to have some speed to bump and reverse. Unfortunately this bumping may make derailments a bit more likely because the back wheels can lift up as it hits the bumper. They may not come back down on the rails and the arcing could begin. An electronic reverse like used in the On3 Bachmann trolley sets avoids this jolting (and can be made to run slower).

[lionelsoni]

The On3 trolleys have the advantage of running on DC, which allows the reverser reliably to do its job by reversing the track polarity. An AC trolley could be reversed in principle from the transformer by interrupting the voltage once or twice (depending on which sort of e-unit the trolley has), but the first missed step by the e-unit would be a show-stopper. This is surely why the AC trolleys use a switch on the trolley itself to do the job.

Of course, it would not be very difficult to convert an AC trolley to DC in order to be able to use an external reversing circuit.

[riverrailfan]

I have a Dept 56 trolley that was just retired that I picked up over the summer . I believe it is On30, very close to O-scale. Nice runner. Hits the bumper and stops for around 30 seconds and starts again in the other direction. I have a lionel trolley but the dept 56 trolley runs smooth and quiet.

[Anonymous]

Problem solved, sort-of.

I do have a HO set. So, I took one straight and connected two curves. I covered each side to make it look like it is going through a mountain. The train can’t move, but that’s ok and it looks really good just sitting there next to a train station.

I also have a compete circle that goes around the tree, and it is working just fine. I have two engines, but the one I have sitting in the village has wheels which will not work. I have a tunnel that goes around the back of the tree, which looks really great.

The track has three rails. My grandpa gave me this set and I have had it for about ten years. Everything is Lionel except for a couple cars.