Lionel sues K-Line

[MRTerry]

In a 33-page, 8-count filing in federal court, Lionel has sued K-Line Electric Trains and several individuals, alleging theft of trade secrets.
CTT will have a story posted on our home page www.classictoytrains.com later this afternoon.
Terry Thompson

[nblum]

The first thing that comes to mind is Mercutio's dying words in Romeo and Juliet:

"A plague on both your houses."

This is an industry that demonstrates that FUBAR isn't just a joke,
it's a state of being.

There's blame enough to go around, I'm sure, whatever the rights
and wrongs,
but these fratricidal lawsuits are a pox on the hobby, IMO.

[FJ and G]

Hmmm.

Not good news for those who like peace in the toy train kingdomland.

If there's any good news, it is that at least these lawsuits are helping to spread public awareness (i.e. dirty laundry) that there indeed are still 3-rail trains being made, and by more than a single company. And, that people are passionate and even litigeous about their toy trains!

[Frank53]

diversion of resources all around the board - MTH, Lionel, K-Line. Rather than puting the dollars hobbyists put into their coffers into making better and more diverse products (as well as the obligatory return to shareholders) the revenues flow into attorney's offices and into judgements that will never be collected.

Attorney's are teh winners, and they are the least deserving group to win anything, save a trip to the bottom of the ocean.

[dougdagrump]

You know the old adage, "Sumthin Flows Downhill", aside from the customers I wonder who will end up at the bottom of the hill? [banghead]

[NH_Chris]

As a lawyer, I do not take umbrage at what Frank has said, but rather I agree wholeheartedly (except for that ocean voyage he mentioned). I too wi***hey could just call all the lawsuits off. Unfortunately, the 3-rail model industry is little more than an inbred cottage industry, where memories and feuds are long-lived.

NH Chris

[csxt30]

Gee, maybe Lionel thought K-line felt left out, & wanted to get them in the action too ! Thanks , John

[Anonymous]

The OGR forum moderators are saying that the lawsuit was filed in bankruptcy court (they did not say why it was in B Court), against K-Line, MDK, Inc, Maury Klein, and Bob Grubba. I think we will get more details from CTT when they update their web page with the story.

[Frank53]

I woiuld guess it would have to be filed through the bankruptcy court since there is a potential asset gain to Lionel, which would then be under control of the court pending future dispersement in teh Lionel/MTH matter.

[Big_Boy_4005]

If the 3 rail world would just let the NMRA set some standards that everyone could use, there wouldn't be any trade secrets. We don't see the HO and N scale manufacturers fighting like this. Dumb and dumber.

Maybe the problem is everyone uses the same factory in China. DUH.

[Blueberryhill RR]

Hummm !!!!!!!!!!! Would all this be happening, if all these companies had their products made in USA.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Blueberryhill RR

Hummm !!!!!!!!!!! Would all this be happening, if all these companies had their products made in USA.

EXACTLY!!!! I'm not sure it's possible to have a trade secret in China. It almost sounds oxymoronic.

You know, if you add in the legal fees, it would be cheaper to make the trains in the US.

[Kelly Shaw]

Click on the link to read the story about the Lionel/K-Line lawsuit. It will be updated as the story develops.

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/006/063djfrw.asp

[dougdagrump]

Why anyone would expect to have anything remotely resembling "trade secrets" in China is totally beyond comprehension. When one entity, in this case the government, in charge of EVERYTHING there is no such thing as proprietary info.

[Anonymous]

does anyone know if this will affect the K-Line 4-6-6T locomotives that we are all anxiously awaiting? They were due in May or June, then July, then August. Are they going to be injuctioned at the junction? In other words, is K-Line going to be blocked by the courts from delivering these engines pending resolution of the lawsuit? Interesting that the Lionel guy who is at the center of this is cooperating. There's an old saying in the corporate world: When your employer suggests that you get your own lawyer to represent you, it's time to call the other side and make a deal.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Gee, I'm not sure I'm ready to apologize to China, but after reading the article, it sounds like the trouble started in Michigan.

What's so special about Trainsounds and the CW-80 transformer?

[Blueberryhill RR]

Just think....... When China starts sending cars to America, some American car company will probably pay them to build cars for them. Then Ford could sue General Motors for coming out with " Dynaflo " transmissions.

[Anonymous]

>>What's so special about Trainsounds and the CW-80 transformer?<<

Anybody dumb enough to want to copy the cw-80 ought to be sued for being that stupid.

In the immortal words of the Wizard of Oz : "I can not give you a brain. But I can give you a diploma"

Bob

[spankybird]

Gee - Just maybe Lionel should have thought twice about all the people that they fired.

[Anonymous]

Next: K-line sues MTH, then we will have come full circle!

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Santafekent

Next: K-line sues MTH, then we will have come full circle!

HAHAHA! Exactly.

This is so ridiculous.

[3railguy]

By the time these suits are settled, adults will be collecting antique Nintendo games, we will be six feet under, and toy train manufacturers will have ceased to exist.

[Anonymous]

I read the complaint and it looks like something bad has happened here.

Remember one thing: Pierson is cooperating with Lionel.

Oh, and remember this too: That computer program called Evidence Eliminator does not eliminate evidence! Neither does reformatting the hard drives. So, if you dispose of a computer, and it had been used for anything personal, like banking, or eCommerce or Ebay, or any other thing that could contain your credit card numbers or any other identifying info, well, you need to take out the hard drives and sma***hem to bits with hammers.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: D. If K-Line turns on person X, Lionel will drop them from the suit.
E. Lionel, along with new best friends K-Line, can then go to court in the appeal of the MTH suit and say, "See, we are good guys, but this dirty rat, person X, did this bad thing to MTH and dragged us unknowingly into it. Then person X did this bad thing to us and dragged K-Line unkowingly into it. Therefore, you should find in favor of Lionel and MTH can go after person X if they so choose.

Did you ever here that the "Bucks stop here". The president / CEO of Lionel is - should be respondable for his/her assocites. So should the president / COE of K-line, IMHO.[2c]

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I agree with you, I was just suggesting what they might be trying to pull off. But in fact, I think Lionel's lawyers agree with tom too, since they say that Maury Klein "knew or should have known" ... So, I think you're right.

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409

HAHAHA! Exactly.

This is so rediculous.

I agree. And we will lose. More $$ for trains.

[Anonymous]

The big winner will be MTH and Mike Wolf. Lionel can't afford anymore litigation and K-Line has been on thin ice for quite a while. ChiefEagles is right, we the consumer will be the losers.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Reading and PA RR

Oh, and remember this too: That computer program called Evidence Eliminator does not eliminate evidence! Neither does reformatting the hard drives. So, if you dispose of a computer, and it had been used for anything personal, like banking, or eCommerce or Ebay, or any other thing that could contain your credit card numbers or any other identifying info, well, you need to take out the hard drives and sma***hem to bits with hammers.

Actually, a simple disk wipe program will destroy all the files:
http://www.thefreecountry.com/security/securedelete.shtml

Darik's Boot and Nuke sounds good:
http://dban.sourceforge.net/

Just make sure the utility can handle the largest disks so it overwrites all the sectors. (Some older utilities have disk size limitations).

Daniel Lang

[1688torpedo]

In the last online Chat Session that Lionel had a few months ago, Jerry Calabrese did mention that Lionel had discussed with its Lawyers the possibility of going after other companies that had Misappropiated or stolen Lionels Technology / Trade Secrets. Seems like this is what Lionel is now doing with K-Line.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Geeze, Mike W says we have to pre order stuff to get anything. .. do you really want to pre order something when it is likely that a lawsuit will delay delivery or force that company out of business?

I will stick with ordering stuff on the internet that is in stock!

Jim H