Who makes the slowest switcher ?

[Anonymous]

A friend brought over an Atlas switcher this weekend, and man will it crawl. How do others compare to it ? I think the Atlas takes 036 to turn, which is a little tight on my upper level. Anyone have the Williams, and how does it compare...Thanks..Tim

[ChiefEagles]

Tim, I would guess that MTH with PS2 in command will crawl. I've seen MTH move at 1 SPMH. I've got some big Lionel SD90's that will crawl with Odyssey on.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Tim, I don't have any of those engines, but in general to have good low speed operation, you need 2 things. A quality motor, probably at least 7 poles on the armature, and good gearing. The modern can motors really make a big difference.

Atlas has always made some of the smoothest and quietest engines in HO and N. All are great low speed performers, so It stands to reason that the same engineering would go into their O gauge offerings, especially since they also sell 2 rail versions.

None of the other 3 rail manufacturers really had any reason to be concerned with low speed operation until Atlas came along. Personally I can't imagine that a Williams engine will out perform Atlas at low speeds. I have nothing against Williams, I just don't think that is their focus.

As more and more 3 railers demand more realism from their trains, low speed control will be more of a selling point than it is today. Low speed has always been a selling point for HO and N scale locomotives.

[spankybird]

Tim - I have to agree with Chief. I have several MTH PS2 engine, and in command mode they will run a 1 smph, up or down grades. Even in conventional mode they will run at about 3 smph.

I believe any of the newer engine with speed control will do about the same.

tom

[Dr. John]

I've got an elderly Lionel 0-4-0 that won't move at all. Is that slow enough? [:D][;)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Guys, true slow speeds aren't measured in scale miles per hour. That's just a sales gimick from MTH. A top quality engine should run smoothly at well less than one scale mile per hour. A scale mile is 110 feet, divide by 60, and you get just under 2 feet per minute, 1.83333 FPM to be exact. Real crawl is more like one or two inches per minute. That's slow!!!!

[FJ and G]

I can only speak to MTH's SW-9, my favorite locomotive in the stable (love switching).

I can confirm the Chief's observations that it goes about 1 smph (well, given Elliot's caveat). But unless your track is perfect and perfectly clean, it operates more smoothly at about 2 smph.

I once timed how slow it could go around my old layout in my 20x20 room. Took about 7 or 11 minutes (can't recall which as it was long ago).

Some of us ought to set up a race to see which switcher can go the slowest over a measured course!

[Roger Bielen]

I had a K-line A-5 that really creeped, now I've replaced it with a Lionel 0-8-0 that I can really throttle down. These were/are both TMCC units, I've never tried them in conventional.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Anyone can set up a course Dave. All you need is a ruler and a watch. Go for one minute, as slowly as you can, and measure.

[Jim Duda]

I'm lovin' this - nobody likes to race more than I do! ...but we gotta have some rules so everything is equal...don'tcha think?
1. Distance travelled in 60 seconds - smallest distance wins.
2. Straight course only - no curves!
3. New, tinplate O gauge track only.
4. Course must be dead level + or - .001 in. rise or fall in 100 feet
5. Diesel power units only... steamers and tender only - no cars!
6. AC or DC motors (no clockwork) with or without tach readers (command or conventional) are eligible...
7. Ambient temp must be 70 deg F...+ or - .25 deg F over the entire course
8. Humidity must be 68% over the entire course
9. Locos cannot stop, resume, or jerk in any way
10. Your distance measuring device and chronometer must be calibrated and certified by the National Bureau of Standards.

See how many variables can be involved and how subjective this can get?...(wink)

"Slow and Steady wins the race..."

[FJ and G]

and no distractions from watching ladies mowing their lawns

[lionelsoni]

Greatest distance, Jim?

[Jim Duda]

HA! Well...crap! Too many years of trying to be the fastest shows it's ugly head. Thanks Bob - I edited my post.

...the smallest distance would win, of course...

[Anonymous]

Jim, we're looking for someone in the QA department to write procedures...are you interested in a part time job?

[ben10ben]

QUOTE: chronometer must be calibrated and certified by the National Bureau of Standards.

Whatever happened to the Swiss board of standards?

And a minor point, if I may. I believe that what you want is a chronograph rather than a chronometer. A chronograph is what is commonly called a stop watch, that is to say it can be stopped and started at will, and compares the time to the starting time. A chronometer is a very accurate clock or watch that is guaranteed not to lose or gain more than a certain amount of time over a period of days.

As for other standardized conditions, I propose the following:
1.Power should come from a postwar ZW
2.All connections to track should be made with four feet of the OGR paired 16 gauge wire
3.A line voltage reading should be taken at the time of testing, and computed into a "handicap" factor for each participant
4.Each engine should have had at least 10 hours of prior running time
5.Lubrication should be performed just before testing
6.Track should be cleaned between each test using laboratory-grade ethyl alcohol and rinsed with distilled water
7.Traction tires(if so equipped) should be changed before the test
8.All other wheels should be cleaned using laboratory grade ethyl alcohol and rinsed with distilled water
9.All ZWs used should have recently replaced carbon rollers

[Anonymous]

Good advice Bennie.

[spankybird]

Well we had to try the test. So after adjusting out room temp and humdity, check the track and post war ZW, on the track went our MTH PS2 Desiel. Under DCS command mode at 1SMPH our engine traveled 20" in 60 seconds. [;)]

So

QUOTE: A scale mile is 110 feet, divide by 60, and you get just under 2 feet per minute, 1.83333 FPM to be exact. by BigBoy

it looks like MTH scale miles per hour is pretty close. [^]

Do I Win something for being the first one to do the test [?]

[Jim Duda]

Thanks Tom - that'll be our benchmark...20.000 inches in 60.0000seconds. You have the Blue Ribbon (for now)...(wink)

New test: How many worms can Chiefie get on his hook in 60 seconds?
Next New Test: How many words can he read in 60 seconds? Betcha' Buckeye can beat him!

[spankybird]

QUOTE: New test: How many worms can Chiefie get on his hook in 60 seconds?

answer: NONE - he would put them in his BBQ.

[1688torpedo]

LOL ! The wit & wisdom of Jim Duda overfloweth on this post. You gotta love it.[;)][:)] ....................Keith

[csxt30]

OH, NO...!!! I see snow in the forecast when the Chief returns & sees that!![:(]

[garyseven]

I made the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs! [;)]

[Anonymous]

What have I started?????????.... Tim

[Jim Duda]

What combination of equipment can beat Tom's 20 inches in 60 seconds...? Any takers?

[webenda]

Recommend Revision A of the Rules for Slowest Record (Jim Dudda)

(Appologies for the typo Jim. I cannot change it or Lionelsoni's post would not make sense.)

WAS:
Your distance measuring device and chronometer must be calibrated and certified by the National Bureau of Standards.

IS:
Your distance measuring device and chronometer must be calibrated and certified by the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

REASON:
NBS became the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or NIST, in 1988

You can calibrate your chronograph or chronometer by going to
http://nist.time.gov/
and comparing the NIST clock to your chronograph or chronometer.

At the present time you cannot calibrate your scale / ruler over the internet. Your best bet here is to contact NIST and request a free NIST ruler. (They are promotional give-a-ways.) You can either use the NIST ruler (your primary standard) or compare it to the one you are using now, which will become a secondary standard after the comparison.

Public Inquiries Unit
NIST, 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 1070, Gaithersburg, MD 20899-1070
Email: [e-mail]
Phone: (301) 975-NIST (6478) or TTY [phone]

[lionelsoni]

I recommend Revision A to Mr. Benda's Revision A of Mr. Duda's Rules, revising it to be a recommendation of Revision B to Mr. Duda's Rules, since Revision A has already been accepted by Mr. Duda, being replacement of the word "greatest" by the word "slowest", and to correct the spelling of Mr. Duda's name.

I would also like to point out that it is possible to calibrate one's ruler over the internet: The meter is now defined as 1/299792458 of the distance that light travels in a second in a vacuum. Therefore one need only place a mirror at a distance from one's computer monitor such that the reflection of the clock from the NIST changes exactly 1 second after the image viewed directly from the screen. The mirror is then 149896229 meters away. The inch is defined as exactly .0254 meter and the foot as .3048 meter; so their length can be also be determined. The slight slowing of the light over the short fraction of its path that is through the earth's atmosphere may be tolerated, since its overall effect is to make the locomotive appear to be moving ever so slightly faster than it actually is, therefore giving no advantage to anyone whose ruler is calibrated in this way.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jim Duda

What combination of equipment can beat Tom's 20 inches in 60 seconds...? Any takers?

Gee Jim, everyone is worried about how long there ruler is. [}:)]

I alos tested one of my PS2 Husdson's at 1 SMPH and had the same result.

Jim, why don't you test one of your TMCC engines on it's slowest setting and tell us the results. [:D]

tom

[Jim Duda]

All - I only have one TMCC engine (K-Line Scale Hudson, pre cruise control) so it would probably go about 240 inches in 60 seconds...

A better comparison if someone would measure their results with TMCC/Oddysey or their "slowest" switcher in command or conventional mode.

Remember, this is for a SWITCHER type, so big diesels, steamers, etc. are disqualified...(wink)

[webenda]

Spankybird,

It is Rule 10 that is causing a problem. No one is worried about how long their ruler is. We all trust our rulers. But rule 10 is one of those non-value-added requirements that has been imposed on us by the rule makers. And we all signed up for it, right? Now that it has been written and agreed upon, no report of slowness can be accepted without a statement of traceability to NIST.

[spankybird]

HA but Wayne, you are mistaken, on the second test, we used a block of Cold Roll Steel, cut and ground to the lenght of travel and then took it to our work place and had it measured on our calabrated and ceritifed CMM machine.