<<cough>> <<cough>> Blasphemy?

[Frank53]

I guess this could lead to being even more of an outcast - but what the hey?

I see so many photos being posted of wonderful trains and beautifully crafted layouts made by forum members, absolutely deluged in smoke.

Does all that smoke really enhance the enjoyment of the layout? It seems like the old adage needs an addendum - "you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much smoke"

Personally, I'm not seeing it myself. I enjoy some nice white puffs courtesy of post war smoke pellets as much as the next guy, but the clouds of fog I see in some photos realy doesn't appeal to me.

Does anyone share my view, or will I be carried off to the scrapyard by those brandihsing pitchforks and torches?

[palallin]

I agree completely, Frank. The obsession with smoke output mystifies me. But then, the obsession with smoking cigarettes mystifies me, too, but I know that my Mom insisted on continuing to smoke as she lay dying of lung cancer.

I am NOT equating cigarette smoke with toy train smoke, and I don't believe that toy train smoke (which isn't really smoke--i.e. the product of combustion--at all). But the effect is much the same from an esthetic point of view, at least: a choking haze. I like enough smoke to suggest, not to smother. Revered photos and later myths to the contrary, the railroads discouraged smoke, and worked hard to minimize it. Frisco hoggers who refused to maintain a clear stack often found themselves out of work.

But the fact is that steam roads' yards were covered in that haze, but it was much worse than anything even MTH can create. If you insist on "realism," this white stuff won't cut it, anyway. You need black soot, and lots of it. If you don't want your train room covered in black soot, don't complain about feeble smoke output because feeble smoke output is why you don't have a train room covered in black soot.

A wisp of "smoke and steam" enhances the image. A haze takes all the fun out of the experience for me.

[Anonymous]

I'm with you, Frank, I don't like all that smoke either. I only turn on the smoke when running at a show or for a little while while showing train to visitors. I gave up cigarettes (Kool Filter Kings) thirty five years ago and I don't like breathing smoke of any kind. Watching my engines belching clouds of foul smelling smoke does nothing for me. Besides I really don't know what's in those fumes we are breathing. Nothing beats fresh air for good health. Odd-d

[fjerome]

i seem to be allergic to the stuff, so i run without it. even if i wasn't, it is too much. these guys always complaining about smoke output really amuse me. i want to enjoy the trains. if i can't see them, i can't enjoy them.

[Bob Keller]

Unless I'm checking smoke unit output, the smoke switch stays OFF at home or work!

[Jumijo]

My Lionel starter level locos produces a decent amount of smoke, but not nearly enough to fog up a room. White puffs like several of you have described is what I experience. It disapates very quickly. I like enough coming out of the stack to be able to see it. Since I only have starter locos, I don't have to worry about too much smoke filling up my room. I enjoy seeing the smoke though. To me there is a certain jee-whiz factor to it. It's also why I choose to run steamers instead of diesels. Everything in moderation and to each, his own, I guess.

Jim

[Dave Farquhar]

I like enough smoke to be able to see a whisp of it coming out of the stack, but that's plenty for me. I don't like the smell in large quantities (in small quantities I do) and I like to be able to breathe. My Marx smoke units tend to put out a little more smoke than my Lionels do; I'm happy with the Marx output, and I'd rather the Lionel units put out too little smoke than too much.

[jonadel]

It's a choice I'm glad we have.

My visitors really enjoy the smoke, chuffs, whistles, engine noise, etc. The smoke with the chuffs in everyone's opinion is just amazing. After perhaps 10-15 minutes I will decrease the volume of everything so we can talk and swap stories.

It's a choice I'm glad we have.

Jon[:)]

[Jim Duda]

I'm with Jon...it is nice to be able to CONTROL the amount of smoke - I'd rather have the choice of too much to too little...then it's up to ME to choose the output. Visitors/kids want to see huge, billowy puffs from the stack (at least most of them do) - so I crank it up for a few minutes, then turn it down to a wisp or off completely. The rest of the time they don't seem to miss it at all.

Kinda like having a 400 HP Muscle Car...you don't have to open the secondaries it to appreciate the power you control...just knowing "it's there" is usually enough.

And honestly, when I run the PW 675 or the new K-Line steamer, I wi***he output was more prolific...

Summary: I'll turn the smoke on for a photo or two. But out of 6 hours of running, I'll have it on for maybe 5 minutes...mainly just to check that it still works. Too much of anything is usually a bad thing...

[spankybird]

As most of you know, we not only like smoke, you might say we LOVE it.

Even thou we do run a lot of steam with the smoke on, I have watch many videos of real steam engines and the smoke last about the length of the train. And so it also does on my layout.



The really good thing about the JT smoke is that it does not last or linger in the air. This past Saturday night I ran two of my heaver smokers for over an hour and when they were turned off, no smoke in the room. This was even commented by my guest.

[Anonymous]

I'm not a big smoke fan, but I'm not opposed to it. It does look cool to have smoke synched to the chuffs on the steamsers.

That said, my wife can't stand the smoke, and it in fact bothers her. It's much like an allergic reaction in her. So, for that reason, I keep the smoke off.

Tony

[laz 57]

I say SMOKE EM IF YOU GOT EM.
laz57

[sulafool]

No fumar for me, either. When I get a new engine the first thing I do before putting it on the track is turn off the smoke switch--I couldn't care less if it works or not.

What makes me grin and sigh at the same time are the guys who will vilify an engine that is otherwise perfectly detailed and smooth-running because it "doesn't smoke as much as brand x's version" --- now is that a lame criteria or what?

C'mon, the best we can do with our small trains is simulate reality...which is why I can be happy with the pellet smoke of a PW classic; it suggests realistic activity without making everyone gag. The smell, like ozone, is also nostalgic.

Sublety, tho, is apparently lost to the new generation of enthusiasts. At least those totally lacking in imagination (see also: rant about cacophonous sound effects).

Question for you smoke junkies: Why haven't you demanded black smoke yet? I never saw a real engine spew white smoke out the stack...

[jonadel]

I would love to have black smoke if it could dissapate as well as white smoke. Is that a possibility? And then to have the white smoke (steam) coming out during the blow offs out the sides-------- oh baby, now wer'e talking.

Jon[tup]

[Jim Duda]

DJ - I'm lovin' it! The operative word I used above is "usually"...(wink). Wait until you're a geezer - then when the kids with their new 'stangs, Firebirds, Camaro's, Boxsters, etc., pull along side and give you "that look", you'll be able to merely smile and slowly pull away from the light. "Knowing" you can dust 'em will USUALLY be enough...it is for me, anyway...

But, if you want to exercise your SS on that first nice Spring day, I'll be smilin' as you watch them struggle in your rear view mirror..!

Stay Young, my friend! Just be safe!

[GregM]

Count me in the group that likes some smoke but doesn't have to be run out of the room with it. Quite a while ago, Karen and I were in a small (Emphasis on small) store and the prop. fired up a little switcher that poured out enough smoke to warrant a visit from the EPA. Didn't stay too long in that room.

[brianel027]

Count me in with Vitabile... I'm not opposed to it - but like jaabat, I'm happy with the smoke out put of my Lionel starter type steamers. On my layout I have some high output smoke units in some buildings which is fine enough. I can turn them on and off, entertaining myself and company.

My take on the interest in smoke output is like that of the digital sounds... many want to have locomotives with the extras, but then turn them off the extras when running most of the time. I suppose it's in part having the option of chosing. And I suppose in part it's the little boy in every man that likes to show off all the things his new toy can do. A little like "my toys are better than your toys."

We see a little bit of that attitude on the train forums. The trains today are more complicated and detailed than ever before. When every great once in a while some new train comes out that resembles more of a toy, or isn't loaded with all the latest features, that product usually takes quite a lambasting from some. Which I find ironic because there is no shortage of fully loaded detailed electronically loaded trains made today.

Ultimately the companies are hearing those who spend the most dollars and spend them frequently - that and the intense competion between the companies and their quest to one up and outdo eachother. And as long as those who can afford it, want to buy fully loaded locos that put out tons of smoke, that's what's going to be made until finally the train market falls through and the more expensive trains no longer sell.

[TurboOne]

Hey, most of my trains are HO. I would be happy with any smoke. I really enjoy all the pics you guys have of smoke.

I think Duda said it best. Just knowing you have it. That is the difference in wisdom and youth. Knowing you could win, means you don't have to.

Duda, you da man.[bow][bow]

And even though I am as anti smoking on tobacco as you can get, let the trains smoke.[:)][:)]

Tim

[Anonymous]

Well I love the smoke as much as the next guy, and when I have visitors, I puff it up good.

However for the most part I generally shut it off, cause the fluid doesn't last long before it needs some more, and I don't wanna char my wick.....

[ChiefEagles]

Well, I like the smoke. I am installing an exhaust fan in the ceiling of the train room. Each to his own. [;)]

[underworld]

I think the only way to get convincing black smoke is with live steam.............
coal fired of course![:p]

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[philo426]

I have to turn-off the smoke unit in my MTH Turbine because it smokes so much that the train room is literally filled with smoke within 2 minutes!I have heard that the DCS has a way to control the smoke out-put of a Proto-2 equipped Locomotive,but have not purchased the system yet.What is your opinion of the smoke-output control of the DSC?

[Jim Duda]

The smoke output control in DCS is GREAT! You can choose Off - Low - Med - High - Off while the loco is moving...all from your handheld controller. Further, since I control the track voltage to the TIU through a Variable channel, I can "adjust" the track voltage to anything that is available from the transformer handle. e.g., if "low" is not enough smoke and "medium" is too much, I can cut back the voltage to suit. Additionally, you can hit the Labor/Rev Up or Drift/Rev Dn to further adjust it. ...or just keep it off.

TMCC has similar controls (I think) but probably not as precise as DCS. The folks that operate at Train Shows, are the real experts at smoke control and I'd like to know how often they use it.
Obviously, Spanky uses his and can further comment...

[ChiefEagles]

TMCC diesels have off and on smoke from remote. I think they have a labored smoke for steam engines but do not own any.

[spankybird]

Jimbo has hit it on the head. There are several adjustment that DCS can do to change the smoke output.
1. adjusting the chuff rate will change the smoke amount. Factory defult is 2 per rev. but can be changed from 1 to 16 per rev.

2. smoke volume can be set from off, low, med (factor setting) to high.

3. when pressing labor/rev up, it will also increase the smoke output or decrease when on drift.

You also have a button on the remoke to just turn the smoke on or off.

[Anonymous]

I love smoke.

The more the better.

I too, am using JT's Megasteam, which, in combination with MTH smoke units, results in more smoke than I ever thought possible. If the room gets to clouded with it, I do shut if off until it disapates (of course I turn it on again, then).

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone,I'm jealous. the only way I can get my low end steamers tosmoke that much is to hold them down while I keep the juice on. I call that the boiler pressure check. Don't do it for too long though. Easter

[Anonymous]

I guess working in large power plants and generating stations all my life has given me an aversion to the smell of burnt lube or hydraulic oil. After all, that’s what train smoke really is, burnt mineral oil. So naturally, all my modern era loco’s smoke switches are turned off. Give me a postwar steamer and a bottle of Smoke Pellets and I’m a happy guy.
BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[FJ and G]

I don't smoke, but about once every month or two I enjoy a good cigar

[Anonymous]

All TMCC engines, steamers as well as diesels, can have their smoke output controlled from the remote. You can turn it on or off with the remote. I believe that's all you can do -- turn it on or off.

As far as labored chuffing is concerned, you have that option. I don't know if that affects the smoke output.

Tony