ZW Power Master DCS Control

[Anonymous]

I am planning on purchasing DCS and two modern ZW's with seven 180 watt bricks to power 7 blocks my 10 x 20 layout. I'm planning on running in both command and conventional mode with DCS and TMCC equipment. I trying to determine if DCS can control each of the Power Masters intenal to the modern ZW? Or, can I use the Cab 1 with my DCS to control the internal ZW Power Masters?

Thanks for your help.

[Anonymous]

OrangeDerby,

DCS will not control the Powermasters in the ZW, but you do not need to control them as DCS has the equivalent of two Powermasters built in (the two variable channels). The DCS handheld will control these. I like and use use the Lionel 180 Watt bricks, but don't bother with the ZW. The bricks are just connected directly to the DCS TIU.

The new ZW does not, by the way, put out a pure sine wave at less than full throttle, so if you run a DCS variable channel (which also does not put out a pure sine wave) connected to the ZW, it will probably work but might result in unwanted whistling of conventional locomotives, etc. (probably some who have done this will chime in and give their experiences- it may work alright). In general, it is not good practice to put one device which "chops" the sine wave in series with another.

A Z4000 or an old ZW might be a better power source for the variable channels. Both put out a pure sine wave.

You can also vary the voltage on the Z4000 from the DCS handheld if you add a remote receiver (much in the same way that the TMCC Cab-1 can vary the voltage on the new ZW). If you can connect these to the fixed channels on the TIU you will be able to vary the voltage on all four TIU channels from the remote.

We run four Lionel bricks (one per loop of track) on our 25 x 25 demo layout and they work extremely well with DCS. Remember that you do not need to have a variable voltage control (be it a Powermaster, Variable Channel, etc.) on each block, just the ability to toggle the block on and off.

[eZAK]

[#welcome]OrangeDerby,

WOW! 7 x 180w = 1260w for a 10 x 20 layout!

That's a lot of power!

You could do with less.
All that you need is the DCS system, & two 180w bricks.
And possibaly 2 BPC's (block power controlers)

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eZAK

[#welcome]OrangeDerby,

WOW! 7 x 180w = 1260w for a 10 x 20 layout!

That's a lot of power!

You could do with less.
All that you need is the DCS system, & two 180w bricks.
And possibaly 2 BPC's (block power controlers)

Pat - I have to agree, my layout is 10 x 20 and I use a PW ZW (275 watt) for the trains and a KW for the trolleys and lights. [8D]

[ChiefEagles]

Guys, this is what I posted on another topic:

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Welcome to the forum. Guys, wanted you to know that yesterday, I ran two MTH SD90's [4 motors and lights] plus some lights and lighted caboose off of one side of a KW; and two Lionel SD80's [that is 4 more motors, lights smoke units] and lighted caboose off of the other side of the KW. No problems. Since I have now gotten my CAB1, I run my Lionels with it and my MTH's with DCS remote. Well, I went a step further. I ran both MTH's [4 motors & etc] and the two Lionels [4 more motors & etc] on the outer loop which is powered by only one side of the KW. No problems. Was testing to see if I got interference with them within a foot of each other [had seen comments that when they were operated close to each other, problems existed]. No problem at all.

This might help too.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the inputs !! My requirements, in addition to running in the DCS/TMCC command modes, is to be able to run 7 different trains each on their own blocks each at different speeds (i.e. voltages). Hence the idea of using 7 bricks wasn't for power but rather speed control. I don't think I will ever use 7 times 180 watts, that's a lot of power.

I gather from your replys that a DCS system even with a Command Base cannot control the internal ZW Power Masters using either the DCS remote or the CAB 1. However, I gather, if I was to use two Z4000 and connect the variable outputs to the fixed TIU inputs and connect bricks to the TIU variable inputs I could control all track voltages via the DCS remote. This would require the use of remote receivers to control the Z4000 variable outputs via the DCS remote.

Another conventional mode option to power the 7 blocks would be to use 2 modern ZW's with DCS turned off, and use CAB 1 via the Command Base to vary up to 8 ZW outputs.

If I wanted to run DCS Command Mode using 2 modern ZW's, I could address Protosound2 engines, TMCC engines and up to 4 TIU variable channels if I used two TIU's. Is that correct?

Any other solutions would be greatly appreciated.

[eZAK]

Orange,

Please re-read my post above.

With that set up you could control up to 8 blocks!
(each BPC can control 4 blocks with 2 different inputs)

You would also need a TMCC command base.

[4kitties]

RAC402,

Are you saying that the fixed TIU inputs pass the input power unaltered through to the outputs and on to the rails, and it's only the variable TIU outputs that alter the output waveform? Not that it matters, because every engine I own seems to run fine on the variable outputs, including my Proto 2 engines in command mode.

Great idea using Lionel bricks for the TIU power source. I have a KW that was perfectly adequate for running 2 trains in conventional mode when directly connected to the track, but when I added DCS the KW seemed overworked. Temporarily I'm using a restored R to power the second variable channel. I was looking for a single power source that could handle both of my mainlines, but I like the brick solution even better. Question: you mentioned connecting them to the fixed TIU inputs. Is their output voltage high enough to use with the variable TUI inputs? I haven't found a need to use both the variable and the fixed inputs, especially considering I don't have a dedicated loop for PS2 engines.

Joel

[Anonymous]

Joel,

Yes, the Fixed Channels send the A/C power through unaltered (except for the addition of the DCS signal).

The Variable Channels modify the sine wave to effectively reduce the voltage for control of conventional locomotives. If you use a transformer that modifies the sine wave and pass it through a Variable channel you might have interesting results (like unstoppable whistle blowing of conventional locomotives). The Variable Channels also add the DCS signal.

There is not problem with modifying or "chopping" the sine wave to control voltage as long as it does not cause problems with the on-board electronics in our trains. A case-in-point, is the "stand alone" version of the Powermaster (as opposed to the Powermaster which is built into the new ZW). The stand-alone version will not run some PS-1 and QSI equipped locomotives properly (sometimes not at all). My understanding is that the Powermaster that is built into the ZW is an improved version, but I do not know how it behaves with these two types of locomotives. The Variable Channels of the TIU will operate PS-1 and QSI models well. I have heard of some constant whistle blowing issues with some Williams locomotives though (rumored to be curable by adding a light bulb).

Your original type R and KW will put out a pure sine wave over their entire voltage range and should work well with DCS (I have used a Pre-War Type "K", a Pre-War Jefferson transformer, a Post-War ZW, and the Lionel Power bricks with great success.

As for the Lionel Power Bricks, they measure out at 18.6 volts with no load. They are an excellent source of power for both the variable and fixed channels. Just make sure that you "phase" them correctly (some were accidently built out of phase, relative to others).

We run one brick per channel and, when we want to run conventional on a different loop, we swap the banana plugs at the TIU. All four channels have both the DCS and the TMCC signal on at all times.

This picture has been displayed on this forum before, so if it is redundant please forgive me: