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1666 027 2-4-2 "scout?" reverses, but no E unit.... Bypass?

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1666 027 2-4-2 "scout?" reverses, but no E unit.... Bypass?
Posted by richardm47 on Tuesday, December 12, 2023 8:22 PM

Wow... "deja vu all over again"  I asked this exact question about a 2-6-2 in 2020... but this time there really is no 'lever"...  and 1666 is listed as a 2-6-2  hmm.     This unit also has the copper strip instead of the pick up wheels.  As i mentioned in the 2020 question, our O gauge club gives me assorted engines and stock to make donation sets to a local charity (similar to Goodwill, but smaller and really local.)  I wish they'd give track and transformers, but that's another story...  However this engine really has no E-unit and  member , who should know, said some of thise 2-6-2s were produced without an E unit, but still reverse when power is interuppted....   I do recall a discussion about "by-passing" so the engine would only run forward.  Those who get our donated sets are usually "new to the hobby", and reversing is not something they need.   Can this be set to only go forward, or should I just include my note that they'd have to always anticipate the train to reverse when they power up.   I even purchased an amazon paperback verson of Greenburg 1945-1969, but the 2-6-2 1666 is not there.    Thank you for the excellent advise in this forum.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Tuesday, December 12, 2023 9:15 PM

richardm47
This unit also has the copper strip instead of the pick up wheels.



With this copper slide pickup, I would go back and count the wheels again... post a picture. Your 1666 is probably a 2-4-2.

Rob

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Posted by pennytrains on Tuesday, December 12, 2023 9:45 PM

1666's were all 2-6-2's.  Those produced between 1938 and 1941 have a squared off floor at the rear of the cab.  Postwar models had the more familiar rounded cab deck.  The E-unit lever on a 1666E was between the stack and the first dome.  Prewar locos came in both black and gunmetal while postwar models were always black.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by richardm47 on Tuesday, December 12, 2023 11:17 PM

 I havn't figured out how to post a picture.... not computer savy enough....  But yes my 1666 is a 2-4-2, but when I "googled" Lionel 1666 to see a pdf manual....  It was for a 2-6-2 .    As I said I did get the Greenberg 1945-1969, and haven't gotten deep enough to find this engine... but it confirmed 1666 is a 2-6-2... hmm...

 I started this post, but was called to dinner... When I got back,  instead of a quick link, it took a loooooonnnngggg time.to load.. so I was probably thinking ahead of my typing....

I did "mis speak"... After taking a good look under the hood... there is an E unit, but no lever.  The engne has no 'neutral"  only forward/reverse...    Most of the people who purchase our sets at this Thrift store are new to the hobby...  This gets them a running start.  Some eventually even have joined our O gauge "non-club" of members who just enjoy playing with trains, not attending meetings, but most I suppose eventually   "run out of steam".

Anyway, I ran across a discussion  for an engine without an E unit lever or neutral... as mine, just Fw/Bw....  about "somehow doing somethingnn" so it would only go forward?  But it sounded complicated.  I have not put in the right question so the stupid AI will give me the info or retirn me to the link....  .

suggestions or "the link" to the prior discussion...  I confess, I haven't "searched" the forum discussions....  I'm fairly good a "simple schematics" and tracing circuits.

Again.... Thanks again in advance....always TRAINing. Always Learning.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 7:15 AM

pennytrains
1666's were all 2-6-2's.


Not His.

richardm47
.... But yes my 1666 is a 2-4-2, but when I "googled" Lionel 1666 to see a pdf manual.... It was for a 2-6-2 .



Now, check this Google search. Your 1666 is operating correctly.

Rob

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Posted by richardm47 on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 10:52 AM

My assumption was Lionel.... However the above link is Marx.... that explains my confusion....   no lionel "stamp" but no "marx" either...  So the quiestion still remains, is it possigle to rewire or change something to make it go forward only?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 11:01 AM

richardm47
So the quiestion still remains, is it possigle to rewire or change something to make it go forward only?

It should be.  A work-around for a Lionel engine with a bad E-unit is to remove the E-unit and wire the motor pick-up-to-motor then motor-to-gound. The wire from the pick-up will go to one of the brushes and a a wire from the other brush to the gound.  I've done it myself several times but you've got to make sure you've got it wired correctly for forward-only before you make the connection permanent. I've always gotten it backward on the first try! 

The forward-only wiring's worked so well in my case I'm usually not in a rush to replace the E-unit since I rarely back a train anyway.

Here's a dagryffyn video showing how it's done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5VFHlCrOFA&t=12s 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 12:29 PM

richardm47
the quiestion still remains, is it possigle to rewire or change something to make it go forward only?



Yes.

Rob

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 12:41 PM

richardm47
no lionel "stamp" but no "marx" either...



IF it is marked, it's usually on the cylinders.

Rob

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Posted by richardm47 on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 12:42 PM

Thanks for the excellent reply....   I'll "digest" the info, and get to work...  

Merry Christmas.  Happy New Year.

Always LEARNing.  Always TRAINing....  Richard.

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Posted by richardm47 on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 1:08 PM

Rob... nice detail, but mine are  blank... Otherwise it must be Marx  (Cheap knockoff??)  anyway, I do appreciate all the help.... now the work begins... in between the Holiday "honey do's)  

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Posted by pennytrains on Thursday, December 14, 2023 7:22 PM

That was my second guess Wink

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Posted by richardm47 on Wednesday, December 27, 2023 1:37 PM

Thanks  flintlock76, but the Marx is not as easy to work on as the Lionel... I did get the Greenberg’s 1945-69, but neither the video or book help with the Marx.

Rob, the Marx video was "sort of helpful."  --An  aside:  I wish YouTubers would think about what they are trying to show and not cover what they are doing -- as in this video. However my Marx is very different, having a smoke unit and light.  

 I did disconnect all wires, so the Eunit, motor and brushes should have also been isolated. [I still don't understand how to send a photo.]   The pickup wire connects to a "bar" on one side  and is isolated from the frame. ( I tested for continuity to verify.) I removed all wires from that.  One of the brushes was already grounded to the frame adn I reconnected the other to this bar. I reconnected one of the motor wires to this bar, and the other to the frame.   That should have isolated the Eunit. I left the smoke and light disconnected and focused on simply getting the engine to move.... It did not.  Some sparks.  It seemed to "want to move", but something is still shorting out.  Unfortunately the frame is "pressed together" and I think the Eunit's wires are still somehow connected, even tho I cut them.

I have searched "Marx 1666" for an electrical diagram or repair manual ... no results...

I know I am missing something.... any suggestions

It's a good thing I enjoy tinkering. I am thankful for the expert advice that this forum provides.

Happy New Year…. Make a good day.

Always LEARNing… Always TRAINing… Richard.

 

 

 

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Posted by pennytrains on Wednesday, December 27, 2023 5:59 PM

Try the Robert Grossman Company: https://www.trainpartsformarx.com/

 

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, December 27, 2023 6:33 PM

richardm47
I know I am missing something.... any suggestions



So, you need to connect the brushes in series with the motor field(one of the field windings, anyway) to get motion from the engine. Here is the simplest drawing possible to accomodate this... if it runs the wrong way, just swap the connections at the brushes.

Follow the complete circuit here from the center rail pickup, to one brush, through the motor armature to the second brush, and through the field to chassis/ground.

Rob

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