It feels like we've been stuck in a transition era for quite a while now. Electronics now are what the "zinc pest" was with die casting or paint adhesion was with Bakelite. Durability is one thing and Lionel has always been the leader in my opinion. But it's still feels like a risky and expensive proposition for those of us with shallow pockets.
Here's my O Gauge wish list in no particular order:
Cars etc. I could go for days listing them but I will say I've been wanting 2 N&W heavyweight cars; a combine and a coach.
Notice that I've listed 2 postwar locos specifically, but the rest I'd prefer conventional control only. Electronic reverse is OK, but I'd rather someone (Lionel to be specific) to manufacture semi-scale trains with great detail, conventional control, decent smoke, magnetraction and American Flyer's "choo-choo sound". A surprisingly effective simple mechanical device.
Same me, different spelling!
Great list! I'm hearing a lot of people asking for the same things regarding conventional control.
Technology can be a wonderful thing
....so is a choice....
On the G side, Piko is producing engines in Dcc, or standard Dc only. Yes, you Can choose! I think this is the way forward!
Paul
pennytrainsHere's my O Gauge wish list in no particular order: N&W Y6b NKP Berkshire Alco RS11 (road name tbd) Santa Fe F3 ABA (Lionel 2343) N&W J (Lionel 746) N&W GP-9 in tuscan Chessie Hudson
Interesting list! Let's go though it seriatim, shall we?
N&W Y6b. No way to get one of those cheap, trust me. Maybe you could get lucky at a garage or estate sale. No-one's giving them away.
NKP Berkshire. Now there's a possibility! There were MPC and Kughn era conventionals made and the prices are getting reasonable. Or, you can try and find a rough shape Berkshire and "roll your own" with a repaint and re-decaling.
Alco RS-11. No cheap way out on that one I'm aware of.
Santa Fe F3. If it down't have to be a 2343 you can probably find some good used ones, Santa Fe's of all types seem to be pretty common, every show I go to has plenty.
N&W J 746. Yeah, no cheap way out on that one. Not yet anyway.
N&W GP9 in tuscan? I haven't seen any but I haven't been looking either. Plenty of Geeps at shows though. Maybe another "roll your own?"
Chessie Hudson? Jeez, there's Hudsons all over the place and prices are dropping unless they're "Brand new and in the box, with papers." Another good candidate for a "roll your own." Unless it's the "Yellowbelly," another matter entirely.
You know, I had so much fun and got so much satisfaction out of that rebuild and repaint of the 2065 I got at the last show I'm looking forward to trying it again, this time with a rough condition 736 and turning it into a Mikado. I don't have any Mikado freight hogs, ironic since at one time Mikes were one of the most common freight engines around. And of course a 736 is a good old conventional!
And unfortunately nobody's going back to building strictly conventional, not in the immediate future anyway. Unless the new stuff gets so sophisticated no-one can afford it.
The 746 is on my wish list too... I bet every Lionel collector wants one! I'd happily go for the MPC version but those seem barely any closer to my budget. I have a 2353 so the classic ATSF F3 is off my want list, but I really want an F3 in New York Central. I also want a 2378P to match my 2378C, but... ouch, they don't come cheap do they? I'm trying to reassemble an incomplete 2273W, since I found several components of it for sale at the same place, and for a price you'd never be able to beat. When I head the words "honestly I'm just trying to get rid of this stuff" I knew I was in toy train heaven. Only pieces of the consist I'm missing besides the A unit is the caboose.Of course I'm looking for a turbineI absolutely need to own one or both of the postwar B&M Geeps. Local road name and a favorite.Another few big ones on my list are the New Haven MPC rectifier and the postwar 2350 EP-5. Wouldn't mind the Flyer model either naturally
I'm hunting for the HO New Haven rectifier but people want biger bucks for them on eBay than I feel like spending on em. I'm not biting, I'll keep hunting until I find one at a price I can't resist. Flintlock, I have half a mind to do some modifying to my already modified and repainted 736. I think it would be fun to alter it to represent either a B&M or a B&A Berkshire. The B&M locos had a very distinctive "Coffin" style feedwater heater.only issues are a) of course my 736 still isn't workin, and b) I'd have to ruin the attractive boiler front if I wanted a prototypical headlight placement. The B&A berk is a bit closer, so it might be a better choice. But again the boiler front would have to be modified if I really wanted it to look like the prototype.Well, I have all the time in the world to decide!-Ellie
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
I think I'd go with the B&A Berk. That Coffin feedwater heater on the B&M engine's just so damn ugly! Give me the creeps too, and the name "Coffin" doesn't have anything to do with it. Normally I'd say there's no such thing as an ugly steam engine but that B&M engine comes pretty close!
Maybe if you make a Halloween-theme engine out of it...
Wayne:
And now for something completely different. I present to you the answer to the question no one anywhere at any time in the history of railroading EVER asked....the 1100:
https://link.shutterfly.com/GZmnHWqe2pb
Ah! A compact stand- in for the 746! Problem solved ! There is a Lion Chief 2.0 NKP Berkshire. I had my eye on it when I was looking into Lion Chief. Paul
Flintlock- say what you will of the B&M berks... I honestly like them, but don't get me wrong, I'm not blind to the asthetics. I guess I just am amused by those massibve feedwater heaters- they do almost look a little creepy, don't they! My mind isn't made up yet, but if not for anything except ease I'll probably go B&A in the end. Becky, I absolutely love your 1100 and looking at it is making me think that I need to make something similar for myself. A 2-6-2 "Mini-J" seems like a fun idea- subtract an axle each from the leading, driving, and trailing wheels! Maybe I need to have a shot at reviving that spare Baldwin Disc motor I have kicking around. This forum's a dangerous place, the people here will put IDEAS in your head -Ellie
pennytrainsAnd now for something completely different.
Wow! That 1100 is just so COOL! You've got to tell us the story about that one!
Oh, my Y6b is a RailKing version, it'll run on 031 curves or I wouldn't have bought it. I still took a hit to the wallet but I rationalized it figuring I'd probably spend that much at a big train show anyway.
The only reason I bought it (aside from it being a Y6b) was I wanted an N&W engine to pull freight and I wasn't going to disgrace a Class J by using it as a freight hog! There's things you just don't do!
Thanks! I took N&W's real 1100 and ran with it. Also known as the M2 Automatic, this was a late hour attempt to keep steam up and ward off diesel switchers. They were trying to match the diesel's availability and lower maintenance costs but with a lower initial investment.
What they created were the Automatics. A turbine driven air fan, enhanced safety valves, a longer combustion chamber, Hennesey lubricators and a tender that could hold 2 days worth of coal to feed a low speed stoker let these locomotives operate for hours at full steam unattended.
I went the next step and added streamlined skirting answering the question of what an M2 would have looked like had it received N&W passenger Loco streamlining.
I don't have a 4-8-0 to experiment on, so I used an inexpensive 2-4-0. I also decided to simulate an oil tender using the standard N&W Canteen car as a guide. The Tuscan and (not deluxe) gold stripes are glossy photo paper straps. OH, the loco's smokestack is an upside down Lego brick!
I built this contraption years ago and decided the time was right to give it a face-lift. But it's too light to hold the rail. This switcher was a low priced model after all.
https://link.shutterfly.com/FlimPnls3pb
pennytrainsThanks! I took N&W's real 1100 and ran with it. Also known as the M2 Automatic
I thought there was something vaguely familiar about it! The M2 Automatic! That's a fantastic custom job!
Too light to hold the rail? Is there room under the shell to add some weight? Here's a video from dagryffynhobby where Dave adds some weight to a diesel as an experiment and tells what the weights are. The whole video's interesting but the weight part starts at 9:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4XBsx9A7Fg
Dave's got a fun channel worth watching!
N&W and the Pennsy experimented with ways to keep using steam, long after " the writing was on the wall". NKP was very successful with their Berks. It's an interesting case study....
Nice kitbash ('bash). We bash a lot in G....
Fun to make something unique in your own hands!
Thanks!
The problem is the loco wants to climb on my dogbone reverse curves. It has a single traction tire that needs replacing. There is room in the shell to add ballast, but I suspect I'd need quite a few ounces. Maybe even 16. I don't know if there will be any room at all to get the weight centered over the drivers which is what I need. I'll figure it out. My MTH (Proto Zero) N&W 0-8-0 is doing the honors right now.
Alright Paul & Wayne... I've got you to blame for this... I went looking for a 681 online and I found one, I was able to get it for a far better price than I ever hoped! But there's a catch, which I accepted. It looks bad. I've seen worse looking engines, but it definitely looks to be in a sorry state in the photos. I'm expecting that I have a lot of work cut out for me, so any savings in the initial purchase will likely get cancelled out by what I need to do to get it back in shape. But it does have the attractive 2671 tender. Which looks far worse than the 681 does! I'm probably going to leave them both as original as possible, even with the cosmetic faults.Anyhow, I consider you both responsible for inspiring all of this so thank you and wish me luck, I will direct all complaints from my family (you bought another broken train??) your way -Ellie
Well congratulations Ellie! Look, as long as it runs (or you can get it to run) that's all that matters, if it looks nasty there's nothing wrong with a repaint, both the engine or the tender. And you won't be killing any resale value either, with a nasty exterior it's lost its collector value anyway, which is why you got it for the price you did.
I used Tamiya spray paints for a 2065 repaint and got excellent results.
PS: Can you show us a picture?
Welcome to the 681 club! This is most exciting! We'll help you if you have any questions.
Like Flint says, performance is everything, much more than the exterior. This probably kept the price down.
Congrats!
I am very happy to be a member of the unofficial "681 Owner's Club", thank you for the warm welcome! The seller definitely recognized it needed fixing, but wasn't someone who worked with trains. Condition was certainly no small factor in the price!I have a 2353 A-A set that some- perhaps many would consider in poor enough cosmetic condition to restore guilt-free, but I've felt very happy to keep them original. Do they look flawless? No, there's lots of chipped and worn paint, and scrapes along the sides (not just the fuel tank) that make me quite certain they were run on 027 track- I suspect marx manual switches might be the culprit for the scrapes along the sides of the shell. They certainly are far from mint. But I enjoy them a lot in their original paint, even with all the flaws. I think I might actually enjoy them less if I repainted them, the played-with look has grown on me and I find it really charming. It's not wrong to restore, I just enjoy the look of a well-loved train I guess!As for the 681... this is what we're working with:The worn paint isn't what worries me, it's the white & brown deposits all over the loco and especially the tender. I'm suspecting this was last stored in a basement, and there's some moisture damage. I just hope that it doesn't reek of mold, that would be my worst nightmare. I have a Marx set that does (given to me for free) which I've been putting off doing anything with for that exact reason...But for what I paid for it? Aside from poking around around flea markets and yard sales, I think you'd be very hard-pressed to do better for the money.Aside from the cosmetic flaws, there is the matter of the 2671w missing both pickup roller assemblies and one of the flanged wheelsets, but this is less worrisome to me. I can find a spare wheelset kicking around, and I can run a "hot" wire from the locomotive's pickups to the tender, with a quick disconnect jack between loco and tender. Eventually the roller assemblies can be replaced.Thanks so much for the invitation to ask for tips and advice, I may take you up on that. I have my trusty Greenburg Lionel Service Manual reprint to guide me some of the way, we'll see how things go. I did a little preliminary research, and noted that there can be problems caused by excess lateral play in the geared axle. How common is this, and are there ways to fix it without pulling and re-installing the wheels? Hopefully I don't have that issue, but if I do I'd rather not have to mail it off to someone else to get the problem fixed (unfortuntately I just don't have the budget for a press and a set of wheel cups).I can't wait to eventually graduate from the "681 Owner's Club" to the "681 Owner and Operator's Club"-Ellie
All right, all right.... She's a little rough, but looks like the bones are good....The decal seems intact, and interestingly the hand rails and side rods are not rusted out. Seems less likely moisture, but maybe dirt. I am puzzled by the clean area on the tender where the " Pennsylvania " lettering is, almost as if a piece of tape had been over it. I see a broken wire below the tender, but this is normal everyday stuff. Hopefully, a good servicing internally, and cleaning of the exterior.
We'll keep our fingers crossed, but everything is there and intact. A lot of work, but hopefully she cleans up well .
Of course, always start with the basic cleaning and servicing, and see where you are after that. It just may be a very dirty engine, but you'll have to go through everything.Try to not loose the decal during cleaning.
It looks like it's going to be one of those days...
https://link.shutterfly.com/7NW2n8tz6pb
This is what happens to an Atlas interlocking tower
when a recliner goes over backwards.
Where's that Gorilla Glue?
Wow.
OK Ellie, if it were mine personally I wouldn't hesistate, after getting it running again it'd be repaint time. As I said there wouldn't be any question of destroying any collector value, it ain't there anymore!
I suspect the spots and skuzz on the locomotive and tender shells might be mold in addition to dirt. The only way to kill mold reliably is with household ammonia, so after scrubbing down the shells with some water and dish detergent and a soft toothbrush to get the dirt off give it another scrubdown with ammonia, but do it outside, it's gonna stink!
The "Pennsylvania" marking on the tender is either one of two things, heat-stamp or paint. If it's paint you may loose some, if it's heat-stamp it's pretty darn durable and may survive the cleaning with no problems. You can mask the lettering and repaint around it, but obviously you won't know until after a cleaning.
If restoration decals are needed you can get them from this outfit:
http://www.lbrenterprisesllc.com They've got a pretty good selection for old Lionels.
Good luck!
pennytrainsThis is what happens to an Atlas interlocking tower when a recliner goes over backwards.
You know, if you've got a Godzilla model you can put "Big G" next to that devastated tower and say it's HIS fault!
Unfortunately both he and some other menacing movie monsters didn't make the move.
But it's coming back together nicely. Can't say the same for the Plasticville marbled telephone pole that was next to it though...
https://link.shutterfly.com/aQo83W3D6pb
Thanks for the imput all!Paul, I was shocked the decal looked so good, in spite of the rest of things. Well spotted on the lettering, I didn't notice until you mentioned it but it does look an awful lot like it was protected by some tape. Odd! I highly doubt it was repainted, I wonder why. Maybe the old operator didn't like the PRR?Wayne, I'm not surprised to hear you say that. I may resort to a full restoration, it all depends on how well it survives the cleaning. Ammonia, eh? I'll give it a go, I've had mixed results using diluted bleach to kill mold on some (non train) things. You betcha I won't do it inside!Since the loco has rubber stamped lettering, I'm inclined to think the tender might be painted? I don't know, maybe someone with a collector's guidebook can advise me here. Looking at catalog illustrations (not that these are the most reliable thing to go on) and listings, the 2671w tender was depicted with the 681 in 1950 and 1951, when the 681 returned in 1953 it had a 2046w. I know 681s came both with heat stamped lettering and without, it figures the tenders did too... whether or not they matched up in production I have no clue. Thanks for the tip on the decals, hopefully I don't need 'em! All shall be told when it gets here. Back to the tender... maybe I should have just linked the listing. But here's what the tender looks like underneath.I'm not scared yet... but it's definitely looking like a chore. Again, it was the best deal I imagine I'll see for a good while for a 681 on the 'bay. That is, if I went looking. For now, one 681 is plenty for me.I'm still not sure what the guts are gonna look like, but I'm hopeful there's no rust inside the loco. Again, we'll see what we will see. Hasn't shipped out yet, still probable it'll come by Saturday I think.-Ellie
pennytrainsBut it's coming back together nicely. Can't say the same for the Plasticville marbled telephone pole that was next to it though...
Hey, you know what the Erie used to do with old, rotten telegraph poles? They'd drive a new one into the ground next to the old one, steel strap the crossbeam part to the new pole, then cut off the rotten base! Worked for them!
That tender underside looks downright strange with no pick-ups. I wonder what the story behind that is? I'm not sure if those six-wheel trucks are correct, but they might be. I'll have a look at my 681's PRR tender and let you know what it looks like, right now I can't remember if it's got six-wheel trucks or four.
A good way to find out if that tender's painted (and I suspect it is) is scrape away at the inside of the shell and see what comes up. I was sanding a black Lionel tender prior to a repaint and a mottled multi-colored plastic began to show. Obviously mine was painted. It wouldn't surprise me if yours is too, there's white showing in the worn areas, that could very well be the base plastic.
I should have mentioned mildew in addition to mold earlier, ammonia will kill mildew as well.
OK, I've looked at my 681's tender and it's got the six-wheel trucks, four flanged with two "blind" just like yours. I can't imagine what happened to your pick-up roller assemblys, on mine it looks like a real hassle to get 'em out.
I looked at the "Pennsylvania" markings on mine and for what it's worth it looks painted and not heat-stamped.
Ah shoot Wayne, I think I misinterpreted some of what you said- the tender on my 681 is definitely painted. The white showing through is all in places you'd expect to see paint worn off. I thought you were talking about if the lettering only was paint or heat-stamp. As for the correct truck configuration, if the tender is a 2671w then it should have 6-wheel trucks. If it's the 2046w, then it should have 4 wheel trucks.Yeah, I'm mystified as to why the pickup rollers were gutted. It really makes no sense, seems like a chore- my best guess is that something broke and/or it was being operated on a layout with turnouts that the rollers got stuck in. I can't think of another good reason to go to all that trouble, so that's my theory. Depending how much money I want to spend on the project, will dictate whether I replace them or long term use a jumper from the loco to supply the tender with a "hot". As for the coil coupler... that won't be coming online without something to hold the pickup shoe... aka pickup assembly. Shouldn't be a problem though, roughly 99% of my rolling stock has magnetic couplers. I think the only exceptions are a couple 027 freight cars and my 2460 crane car. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like when Lionel switched over from coil couplers to magnetic couplers they decided not to adapt the 6 wheel trucks, dropping them altogether instead.Becky- sorry to hear the news about the tower, but glad it's coming back together. Too bad about the pole, hopefully you can make something of it!-Ellie
Leverettrailfanuse a jumper from the loco to supply the tender with a "hot"
Certainly do-able, in fact Lionel did exactly that with two 1980's era engines I've got, one's a President Washington B&O Pacific and the other an 8006 ACL "Silver Shadow" Hudson.
Man, did I get "right-place, right-time" lucky with that 8006, turns out it's a rarey.
http://train-station.com/Pages/archives/Library/6-8006.html
I hadn't noticed the box around the Pennsy lettering either. What comes to my mind is:
And the tower is back in business with the telephone pole replaced. I'll get to the previous victim of my tippy chair eventually. Probably before Halloween.
https://link.shutterfly.com/Vvph6kTb7pb
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