I've always been a fan of Williams trains. They have always been affordable, the quality has been great and they have proven to be very reliable. I guess that you could say as in the old Timex Commerical "they take a licking and keep on ticking". I own and frequently run a Williams Pennsylvania RR Alco Broadway Ltd set and it has offered rock solid operation. I've always liked the brand for their simplicty, realism and quality. Outside of the remote control dump cars (that are hard to find) I haven't seen too much in new products from them in the last few years. Is Williams is de-emphazing its O gauge line, in favor of going completely HO? The same thing can be said about Atlas but does anyone know the direction of O gauge products from these two companies?
I don't know. The Williams line put out by Bachmann now is just a shadow of what it was when Jerry Williams was running the show. I couldn't say if Bachmann just did a massive purge of the poor sellers (business is business after all) or once they got the Williams line they didn't know what to do with it. It wouldn't be the first time any business bought out a comperable one and then thought "OK, NOW what do we do?" Only Bachmann understands their reasoning and needless to say they ain't telling.
Bachmann was heavy into HO, N, and G gauges and I believe bought Williams to get themselves into the O gauge market. If that's the case they're not trying too hard.
Atlas strikes me as being unable to make up their minds as what to do with O gauge the way they run hot and cold on it. They make good starts and then put on the brakes. I can't figure them out.
I concur. Williams was a excellent value for the money spent. I own several Williams locomotives and examples of rolling stock and have been pleased with each purchase. The locomotives pull like draft horses and run like thoroughbreds. No frills, no "gee-whiz" electronics or gadgets, just good solid reliability.
One theory is that we are seeing a mirror reflection of the economy, or at least what manufacturers guesstimate they will actually be able to sell.
Bachmann's current G gauge lineup is also very thin.
LGB is now being produced by Marklin( which is a God send, in that it saved their bacon), but they offer a much smaller product line, mostly just the best sellers. Not the full featured product line LGB had just 20 years ago.
I think this may be a trend across the board....
Paul
Postwar PaulNot the full featured product line LGB had just 20 years ago.
Oh yeah. I bought that last LGB mega catalog. If you've never seen it, imagine a hard-bound yellow pages for a major city! Shortly after it came out Lehman was done and hello Marklin. I just always thought they invested way too much in products (and projects like that catalog) that would have limited appeal.
Same me, different spelling!
LGB was eaten alive by competition. At first, they were the only game in town. G took off in popularity in the '90's, and every other manufacturer jumped in as quickly as possible. Many products were cheaply made, and poor quality, and didn't hold up.
The lesson is this:
no matter what, people are motivated by price ! It's a sad story. They truly made the best stuff! Rugged like postwar Lionel!
When Bachmann bought Williams they claimed they were not going to raise the prices. The following year they jumped about 50%. Yes, you can get a decent price thru some of the major train dealers, But if you look at their advertised price, it is almost equal to a TMCC/legacy engine.
Yeah, that price jump had me scratching my head as well. Why? There's nothing in there except an e-unit board, a basic sound system, and a motor or two.
It appears to me that both Bachmann Williams and Atlas are at a critical point for a reset. I would say that like Menards, they need to find and manufacture "niche" competitively priced products to stay relevant or perhaps they will go 100% HO. The hobby has already lost K-Line, MTH and Weaver. If Atlas and Williams retreat from the market the only major company making O gauge will be Lionel who IMO is slowly pricing itself out of the market.
Very good points. I'd add that Lionel isn't just slowly pricing itself out of the market, in my own humble opinion they getting just a little too "high tech" mad for their own good. Trust me, the more sophisticated you make a product the more you're asking for trouble.
Is there a market for a good line of conventional low-priced easy to use starter sets and separate sale engines? I think there is. I don't think I'm alone in this. If Menards decides to take the plunge and develop a line of locomotives it's going to be a real eye-opener for the rest of the industry. They've already got a complete line of very reasonably priced rolling stock, track, and accessories. The only thing left out is locomotives.
And as some one once said concerning toy train manufacture "Tooling is forever." That MTH tooling's going to go somewhere. Could be interesting just where it winds up.
Like many, I am impressed with how well and how long the Williams locos will run. I have used them in many of my wireless and battery powered conversions which are all still running. The move to more sophisticated control systems is inevitable and absolutely necessary to survive long term. I have tested and evaluated six new control systems and found each of them useful and well designed.
bobhwalkerThe move to more sophisticated control systems is inevitable and absolutely necessary to survive long term. I have tested and evaluated six new control systems and found each of them useful and well designed.
Well that's great! And I'm glad it's worked out well for you!
However, remember (And I'm guessing here) you're what's called an "Advanced hobbyist." You've been at this game for a time, you know what you like and what works for you.
But remember also the important thing is to get new people interested. Sometimes that starts with something to run under the Christmas tree. Is a very expensive high-tech set likely to attract those first-time buyers who at the outset are only going to run it once a year under the tree, or a simple moderately priced set that's rugged and reliable? Remember, there's a lot of things out there competing for the recreational dollar, O gauge trains are just one of them.
And the question that's been asked on and off over the past decade is just how long are the sophisticated electronics going to last? As someone who worked as a copier repairman for thirty years let me tell you one thing about circuit boards, they can last 20 years or blow tomorrow, you just don't know. I don't think there's anyone here who thinks todays toy train products are going to have the same life span as the old, low-tech Lionels, or American Flyers, or Marx trains for that matter.
There's no right or wrong here, just honest differences of opinion. I run conventional, I prefer it that way, I like my hand on a "throttle" and see no reason to pay for features I'll never use. I don't think I'm alone. Am I wrong? Someone tell me if that's so, I'm more than willing to listen.
Anyway, what would everyone here prefer to see under Christmas trees in the future? Inexpensive starter HO sets? $19.95 battery operated sets on cheap track that will be easily broken? Or a tough, moderately priced O gauge set that will last for generations?
How many of you started with a train under the tree, and things went on from there?
Well, I like conventional, because it's cheap, and easy to fix.
...Just like me...
But I did take a long, hard , and Serious look at a Lion Chief set on Amazon the other day....
bobhwalker The move to more sophisticated control systems is inevitable and absolutely necessary to survive long term. I have tested and evaluated six new control systems and found each of them useful and well designed.
The move to more sophisticated control systems is inevitable and absolutely necessary to survive long term. I have tested and evaluated six new control systems and found each of them useful and well designed.
Well it depends on how you use your trains and what you are looking for. If you are talking about Classic Toy Trains, conventional is mainly what they are. I run 100% conventional and I own a large layout with all scratch built structures. It is a presentation of railroading of the 1940's and 1950's. The object is to keep costs reasonable, get power to the track (still use ZW's) and see the trains run. There is no need for complex electonics that IMO only decrese reliability. I am also a gourmet chef that needs pots, pans, bowls, basic appliances, a stove/oven and knives to prepare a great meal. Do I really need my cell phone or a remote control to cut potatoes?
Postwar PaulBut I did take a long, hard , and Serious look at a Lion Chief set on Amazon the other day....
Full disclosure here, I DO have a LionChief+ engine, a GP20 in Susquehanna markings. I was looking for a Suzy-Q engine, it came down to an MTH GP60 or the Lionel. The MTH engine was cheaper but at almost 18 inches long it was too big for the layout, so I bought the Lionel.
Very pleased with the purchase, it's a darn good runner! However, I only used the remote once, just to see how it worked. No problems, it worked just fine. Then I pulled the batteries from the remote, put it away, and went back to conventional operations.
One thing I found out about the LionChief+ line and other current Lionels, keep those wheels clean! They go a little koo-koo if you don't!
I still run conventional. Using conventional track power is the simplest way to accomplish automated position sensed loco movement on a layout. But, as an engineer, I can see the interesting benefits of wireless operation. One is battery power, which has struck up a steadily increasing amount of interest Let's just say that there is a dish on the menu for all appetites.
dlagrua I am also a gourmet chef that needs pots, pans, bowls, basic appliances, a stove/oven and knives to prepare a great meal.
Wow. Oh wow. Do you mind if we all come over for a visit sometime?
The way I see it, digital IS the future. Very hard to find ANY new products that aren't. Plenty of used gear for people like me: like to keep it simple and straight forward. I will experiment with the newer stuff eventually....
Postwar Paul The way I see it, digital IS the future. Very hard to find ANY new products that aren't. Plenty of used gear for people like me: like to keep it simple and straight forward. I will experiment with the newer stuff eventually.... Paul
Yes digital has its place but do you prefer a digital wrist watch or kitchen clock clock to an anlog watch/clock where the time can be easily seen by hand position? Do you prefer analog or digital gauges in your automobile dash or do you want to just read numbers? Do you prefer a digital lawmower or kitchen faucet? My point is that digital certainly has its place but model trains only need basic operation. We may differ on this point but IMO some things are better kept simple.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month