The other mechanical engine in the stamped steel category is the 635 Mercury produced from ’38 –’42 prewar and ’46 –’52 post war. They were produced in a multitude of colors: black, gray, red, and blue. Based on eBay listings, they are not nearly as plentiful today as the CV’s except for the version with whistle. This last artifact is mostly due to the CV with whistle only sold in ’42 while the Mercury with whistle version was sold for several years both pre & post war. GGtMTs states that the cost of the whistle quickly lead to it being abandoned. This statement is incorrect. Mercuries with whistles were produced prewar all the way through ’52.
My advertisement coverage for the Mercury is sketchy. The W.T. Grant circa ’38 –’40 advertisement lists a Mercury with sparks, bell, handrails and side rods. Note this is an articulated passenger set which means a talgo style drawbar.
This Mercury version is also shown in a ’39-’40 Eaton ad.
The next ad I’ve found is a ’50 Montgomery Ward ad for a red whistling Mercury with handrails and side rods. This was the last year Montgomery Ward advertised a mechanical Mercury in their Christmas Year Book. Note that the set is no longer articulated.
The last ad I’ve come across is a ’52 Sears Christmas Book ad for a black whistling Mercury with handrails (and I assume side rods since handrails seemed to be one of the first things to go). The Sears Christmas Book didn’t advertise a Mercury in either ’50 or ’51.
Recently a post-war whistling Mercury with a working whistle and normal play wear sold for $122.50 plus $12.40 shipping while another post-war black Mercury in similar condition (but status of whistle not stated) sold for $90.88 plus $18.12 shipping. It included a tender and 5 cars all in excellent shape.
I got my Mercury with whistle for a reasonable price because the whistle wasn’t working.
A quick inspection found the whistle impeller drive gear was spinning freely on its axle. I’ve read elsewhere that this is not uncommon. A couple of small dabs of red Loctite carefully applied quickly repaired this, and the whistle now works great.
The whistle sound/sequence (long-short-short) is controlled by tabs that raises a flapper. The flapper falls back in place just by gravity. This is by far the best extra mechanical engine “gimmick” compared to a bell dinging or sparks, and much more practical than having either reverse or two-speeds capability.
Next up are the Die Cast mechanicals….
Papa D
My wife called me from an estate sale yesterday and texted me some photos. They had four tin plate cars that looked like the black CV, a tanker, a caboose and a PA box car. I had her put in a bid for thirty dollars and the bid was accepted last night. She will pick them up today.
here is the question: if the winder key is missing, is there a substitute that will work?
I've always wondered why Marx made the Mercury, when it is so close in appearance to the Commodore Vanderbilt. At first glance, it appears to be a CV with a different nose, but the shell is actually different than a CV - the most obvious difference being the smooth cab roof of the Merc, compared to the small angles that are present on either side of the CV cab roof.
Although it is hard to tell from the black and white picture, 1950 MW is likely the famous blue Mercury set, as the frames on the passenger cars are the same light color as the car body. In that era, the red passenger cars had a black frame that made a stark contrast to the red carbody, whereas the blue passenger cars had a similar color on the frame.
Some of the very latest Mercury locos can be found with the die-cast 17 spoke drive wheels instead of the stamped steel 7 spoke drivers that were used for most of the Mercurys. The early 17 spoke wheels mount the siderod to a diecast post on the driver that is swaged, but Marx quickly went to a siderod with a Z-bend in the end that engages a hole in the driver instead. The Mercs that I have seen with the 17 spoke drivers have the early version, with the late version showing up on the 533/591 windups.
Looking forward to the die-cast mechanicals...
- James
The Gnome
The screw-in type key was used on the ’35 and ’36 CV’s, with the square insert key used after that. The square key is basically 1/8” bar stock. It’s important that the key fully inserts into the hub to evenly distribute the wind-up force. Replica keys can be bought from Robert Grossman Company for under $5 plus shipping or off eBay for around $10 with shipping.
Papa D, thanks for the info about the key.
Papa D,
i think mine looks most similar to your third CV, except there is no name plate on the nose. Only two domes.
the wheels turn, but it dies not spark.
https://www.shutterfly.com/picturepicker/viewTabletPicturePicker.sfly?fid=f16e0777eb9ef0646d9889752d9a603c
The only thing that I will add to Papa D's key info is one caution: Sometimes, people will wind up the motor using a small straight blade screwdriver inserted into the mainspring hub. I don't recommend doing this - even for a one-time test - as the stress will be concentrated in just a couple of corners of the mainspring hub, and will usually end up cracking it. It most likely won't fail immediately, but it does compromise the part and may cause the motor to suffer a catastrophic failure down the road.
1/8" key stock can be found at hardware stores if you want to make your own key, but the Grossman keys are a top-notch product for just a few bucks.
James
i can’t open your attached photo. A CV without an name plate is from ’40 or later. if you remove the motor you’ll be able to see if it has the spark mechanism or not. All the sparks engines I’ve purchased were missing the flint. Flints can also be purchased from Robert Grossman or any local shop that sells lighters.
this is the bottom https://www.shutterfly.com/picturepicker/viewTabletPicturePicker.sfly?fid=eb63ef31e73269e3f12f12eb75ef82b5
I give up. How do i make pictures appear from shutterfly?
Success!?
The Marx die-cast mechanical type is an oddity. One (666) was made in very limited quantity, reportedly less than 100, and the other (999) most likely a custom-made or less likely a factory prototype. Both used the electric 999 shell which had a “keyway” feature on the right side of the shell. This “keyway” is the notch seen along the bottom edge in the photo below.
Background on the 999
The 999 was Marx’s first die-cast shell. It was produced in limited quantities in ’41 & ’42 and again after the war from ’46 to ‘54. The only pre-war 999 ad I’ve been able to find is from the Spiegel ’42 Christmas catalog. Note that is shows an open cowcatcher.
After the war, the Sears ’46 Christmas catalog showed a 999 also with an open spoke cowcatcher.
The open spoke cowcatcher was reportedly easily broken. Since Marx’s philosophy was to made low cost but rugged toys, this design was quickly changed to a solid spoke cowcatcher and then probably to save a few pennies to a solid cowcatcher as shown in this Sears ’47 Christmas catalog ad.
The 999 last appeared in the Sears Christmas catalog in ’50.
Montgomery Ward’s last Christmas catalog ad for a 999 set appeared in ’54.
The Marx ’54 dealer catalog in GMTC also lists a 999 engine.
Recently on eBay there were 33 electric 999's being offered with the following cowcatcher types: 1 cut-off (aka broken), no open spoke, 1 closed spoke, and 31 plain (see photo). Marx sure sold a lot of 999 electric steam engines for them to be so plentiful over 60 years later.
666 Mechanical Engine
The 666 mechanical steam engine was a 999 with the number board and stamping turned up-side down. Mechanical engines were always budget priced. Since the 999 die-cast shell commanded a premium price when first produced, economically it didn’t make a lot of sense to use it for a mechanical engine shell. Add to this, the less than 100 quantity is something that Marx didn’t do. They made their money based on volume. So, my guess is the mechanical 666 was some type of promotional item perhaps given to the major buyers at the annual Toy Fair in New York City to tout the Marx’s first die-cast steam engine offering. Since it’s reported these engines were produced with an open cowcatcher, in all likelihood their production year was ’41 or ’46. Promoting it in ’42 would seem unlikely given the coming war restriction. So, my guess would be ’46 as most likely. GGtMTs has no production year specified for the mechanical 666. Like many things Marx, we’ll never know the 666 mechanical steam engine story for sure.
999 Mechanical Engine
The existence of a “999” mechanical steam engine is described GGtMT.
Since all 999 shells had a cutout that could accommodate the wind-up key, all someone had to do was figure out how to accommodate the brake lever. Easiest solution would be the described “protruding rod” from the cab. It’s pretty easy to write-off the 999 mechanical engine as either a prototype or more likely a custom.
Next up are the short sheet metal mechanicals….
The short sheet metal type mechanical engine consists of three distinct shell types; the 235, 897/898/833, an 591/592/593. The latter two types will be discussed in follow-on posts.
The 235 is the Canadian Pacific body type, commonly called the 3000. Greenberg’s Guide to Marx Trains, Vol 1 (GGtMTs) lists versions under both the 235 and 3000 designations. The 235 listing gives two production date for the 235; ’36 and ’39. No production date is given in the 3000 listing nor is a photo provided for either listing. One thing I’ve learned is GGtMTs, at least for mechanicals, it’s full of errors.
My understanding is the 235 was first released in Canada in ’36 as part of their Jubilee celebration. Unfortunately, I’ve not come across any ’36 advertisements for it. Two '36 production year CP-3000’s recently sold this spring on eBay. One in excellent condition with a reversing motor and screw-in key went for $155 plus shipping. Another in good condition with a non-reversing motor went for $79.99 plus shipping.
A ’38 Montgomery Ward advisement depicts a mechanical 235 freight set. This is similar in appearance to know mechanical 235’s with blue side boards with yellow trim and lettering.
Adding a mechanical 235 to my collection lies off in the future. Next up are the short sheet metal 897/898/833’s.
The 897/898/833 are all the same shell. GGtMTs lists the 897 as having been produced in ’40, the 898 also in ’40 and then again from ’46 to ’48 and the 833 from ’47 to ’52.
The 897 was the only detailed lithographed mechanical steam engine produced by Marx. It can found in both a regular (black & white) and military (olive drab) versions with either a sparks or reversing late ratchet motor. Below are ’42 ads for the regular (Sears) and military (Spiegel) versions.
Neither is uncommon with the military version a little less common. This suggests more than a single production for each one. I speculate the mechanical mirrored the electric production years of ’39 to ’42 for the regular version and ’41 & ’42 for the military version.
Below is a photo of my 897 regular version with a reversing late ratchet motor. Note the bend in the brake lever.
Instead to this lever moving back and forth, it moves up and down as can be seen in the below photo.
The middle position engages the brake. Moving the level up released the brake and engages a “forward” gear. Moving the level down similarly releases the brake and engages a “reverse” gear. The below photo shows the bracket on the bottom of the engine that supports the movement of the drive gear that engages either the “forward” or “reverse” gear. This bracket is an addition telltale of a reversing mechanical motor.
The 898 and 833 story is a bit more confusing. Both have black shells although the 898 may be dull and the 833 shiny. 898’s from the ’40 production year appear to be very rare as I’ve not seen any 898/833’s with anything other than the post-war blackened motor side plates. Also, it seems unlikely that Marx would overlapped the production of the 898 and 833 in ’47 and ’48. Back at the beginning of this thread JamesP wrote that he believes that the 833 designation is proper for the windup version, and the 898 number is actually proper for the electric version. Makes sense to me, so I’ll go with just the 833 designation.
The first ad I’ve found for a 833 is from the Sear’s ’47 Christmas catalog.
A similar ad appeared in the Sears ’48 Christmas catalog and again in ’50 and ’51 (I currently have no access to the ’49 catalog).
Montgomery Ward carried ads in their Christmas catalog in ’50, ’51 and ’52 (I currently have no access to their ’46 to ’49 catalogs). Only in the last year was a 833 shown without handrails and side rods.
The 833 is one of the more common mechanical engines being sold on eBay only slightly behind CVs and 401s. Below is a photo of one of my two 833’s. It has blackened motor side plates and stamped wheels, handrails, side rods, bell and sparks. The paint on the shell is shiny.
My other 833 is the same except it has die-cast wheels.
All the post-war ads appear to show stamped wheels. GGtMTs states that only the ’40 898 had die-cast wheels. However, since the one shown above has blackened motor side plates, it is definitely from the post-war years. It’s always possible someone along the line switched motors. Ah, the mysteries of Marx mechanical engines.
Next up, the short sheet metal 591’s.
GGtMTs gives the production years for the short sheet metal 591 (or possibly designated 533) mechanical steam engine as ’50 to ’58. GGtMTs also states that from ’50 to ’52 it came with a stamped metal front, with and without side rods and/or handrails. This is at odds with my observations. I’ve not seen a 591 up to this point with anything other than a plastic boiler front, and never with handrails. The production years also seems a little off. Marx was producing 833’s and long sheet metal shell 734/735/933/933M/943 (take your pick on which number or numbers are correct) in ’50, ’51, and ’52. It’s hard to believe Marx felt the need to be producing a third sheet metal steam engine particularly when their business strategy to turn a profit was low cost/high volume. Added to this is the first year ads appeared in the Sears and Montgomery Ward Christmas catalogs for the 591 was ’53. The last year given for production, ’58, appears to be correct as this is also the last year the Sears Christmas catalog carried a 591. Below is an ad for the 591 in the Montgomery Ward '53 Christmas catalog.
The 591 is a somewhat common mechanical steam engine, although not as plentiful as the 833. This is probably indicative of the overall decline in train sales starting to occur in the mid 50’s.
Minor variations of the 591 are numerous. Most came with side rods, a few didn’t. Similarly, most came with die-cast wheels, a few came with stamped sheet metal wheels. There are two major variations; one came with a 2-speed motor, while another came with a battery-operated headlight. Below is the ad that appeared in the ’54 Sears Christmas catalog for the 2-speed motor.
There is a video on u-Tube of this engine. The brake level appears to have three positions. In addition to the brake and brake release positions there was a third that engages a gear system that spins what looks like an inertial weight to provide a slower 2nd speed. Seems more like an additional speed governor than a second speed. Apparently, it wasn’t that effective, didn’t offer much if any additional play value and was produced only this one year. I’ve seen every other Marx mechanical steam engine offered for sale except this one. It might be the hardest to find.
The headlight variation was advertised by Sears from ’53 to ’56, as well as Montgomery Ward (’53 shown above) and Spiegel’s (’55). Here’s a photo of my 591 with headlight. (Yes, there is a piece missing out of the cowcatcher.)
It was a basket case 591 when I bought it. All it had was the Smoke Stack switch.
I obtained the headlight bulb (1.5 V) from Robert Grossman.
The battery holder came from a 591 junker that didn’t have the smoke stack switch. I used epoxy to secure it to the plastic boiler front.
Finally, here’s a photo showing the C-battery installed. Note the front steel strut used to attach the motor to the shell has its flange reversed to make room for the battery.
The smoke stack switch doesn’t work particularly well. It’s more effective to “switch” the headlight on and off by turning the lightbulb.
One interesting thing about the 591 headlight variation is it came with the rise gear motor which dates introduction of this type motor to ’53. Marx produced both the late ratchet and rise gear motors from ’53 to sometime around ’63, and only the rise gear motor thereafter until ’75 when all Marx train production ended. Sparking, reversing, 2-speed or puffing engines all used the late ratchet motor. Non-sparking engines used the rise gear motor. It follows that 591’s equipped with the rise gear motor had their key hole on the right side while 591’s equipped with the late ratchet motor had their key hole on the left side.
Next up is the long sheet metal 734/735/933/943/994 (take your pick on favorite designation).
My research also indicates that the 591/533 mechanical was built from 1953 - '58. I believe that GGtMTs confused the 591/533 with the 898/833 mechanical in the entry about the pre-'53 loco w/ stamped boiler front. As a side note, your 833 with the black sideplates and 17 spoke diecast drivers w/ post mounted siderod is original in my opinion. I believe that this driver was introduced around 1952-53, right at the time the 833 and Mercury was being phased out and the 533 introduced. Examples of the 833 and Mercury with the 17 spoke diecast driver w/ post mounted siderods aren't extremely common, but can be found. I think that Marx converted the 17 spoke from the post mounted siderod to the Z-tab siderod by '54. Marx also made stamped steel 7 spoke black wheels with a hub in the 50's... interesting that they made two types of drivers for the windups in that era!
I have just a single example of the Marx 2 speed motor in my collection. As you mentioned, the slow speed is accomplished by having an offset weight spinning very fast, creating extra drag and slowing the motor. It is located where the sparker wheel would normally be located. When the brake lever is pushed all the way forward, it moves the gear/weight assembly slightly forward in a slot to disengage it from the mating gear. This allows the motor to run using only the normal governor to control the speed. It is a somewhat complicated mechanism, and it isn't very effective. In addition, the pinion gear for the offset weight tends to wear rapidly. As you noted, the 2 speed motors are very hard to find. I only know of a couple more in existence, although there are surely more squirreled away in various collections across the country!
Just one minor point - locos with ratchet motors tend to have the keyhole on the right, and riser gear motors tend to have the keyhole on the left. I think that inadvertantly got switched around in your post.
Thanks for your interesting posts!
The Marx long sheet metal class mechanical steam engines were produced in the early 50’s to counter Unique Art’s attempt to break into the low end of the toy train business in ‘49, something that Marx considered to be their exclusive turf. The head-to-head competition in ’50 caused Unique Art to withdraw from the toy train business. Unique Art went out of business completely in ’52.
All the engines in this group have the same sheet metal shell except for decoration. The Mickey Mouse Meteor is lithographed with Disney characters. The others are painted either solid black or red (rare). The number designation for these engines is complete anarchy. GGtMTs lists three versions for this mechanical steam engine: the 734 lithographed Mickey Mouse Meteor (MMM); the 735, a plain black version of the 734; and the 994 which appears to be the same as the 735 except one variation was red instead of black. In an earlier post, James P gave the following designations for the large mechanical engines:
“I believe that 933 is correct for a forward-only windup, 943 correct for a reversing windup, 933M is the Mickey Mouse litho'd windup, and I think 994 would be correct for the electric version.”
It appears over time it became customary for people to refer to mechanical steam engines using the Marx designation for the corresponding electric steam engine, hence the “994” designation. So, I’ll proceed with this write-up using the 933 designation for the lithographed MMM, and 934 for all other versions.
The Montgomery Ward ’50 Christmas Book contained an ad for the 933 MMM. A similar ad appeared in their ’51 Christmas Book. No further ads for either the 933 or the 934 appeared in subsequent year MW Christmas Books.
The Sears ’50 Christmas Wish Book contained an ad for two 934’s, one with a whistle (Huh, where did this variation come from?) and the other with sparks. Only the sparks variation appeared in the ’51 Christmas Wish Book, and similar to MW no further ads for the 933/934 appeared in subsequent year Sears Christmas Wish Books.
During the 50’s, Sears and MW were the two largest retailers of Marx Trains with several tiers of other regional and local sellers. This leaves me to believe that in ’52 Marx was merely selling off left-over inventory to smaller accounts. Marx depended on each seller to advertise their Marx train offerings. Tracking down the advertisements of all these lower tier sellers is somewhere between difficult to impossible. Marx was also willing to provide “customized” products to sellers to hit price points and/or marketplace uniqueness. This is why there’s a phrase “never say never when it comes to what variations Marx produced/sold”.
Based on what I’ve seen on various model train sites, at train shows, or being sold on eBay, here is my list of the Marx long sheet metal mechanical steam engines:
· Lithographed Mickey Mouse Meteor with sparkling motor (expensive, up to $600 eBay for complete set)
· Black with sparking motor (surprisingly, somewhat uncommon)
· Black with reversing motor (not uncommon, several listed on eBay thus far this year)
· Black with whistling motor (uncommon, only one listed on eBay thus far this year)
· Black with battery operated headlight (uncommon, only one listed on eBay thus far this year)
· Red with ?? motor(s) (rare, I’ve only seen on train web site)
I bid $85 for the Marx black long sheet metal mechanical steam engine with battery operated headlight but was outbid by $1. It had a CV type battery holder and on/off screw in the forward simulated truck wheel similar to the one shown below taken off the internet.
Below is my long sheet metal mechanical steam engine (minus the reversing motor).
I bought it off of eBay even though it had the dreaded phrase “untested”. My guess is if something doesn’t work, a seller will frequently use this phrase instead of the truth. So, I wasn’t all that surprised that it wouldn’t wind-up. A chip was also missing in the spring hub probably caused by someone attempting to use a screw driver to wind it.
Fortunately, I have James P booklet on windup train repair and watched his YouTube video. Upon disassembly (easier than expected), I found the main spring was fractured where it inserts into the cast hub.
The brass transfer gear that meshes with the main spring gear also had several of its teeth stripped.
Using a donor engine (removing the main spring was a challenge), I first replaced the transfer gear assembly. Next, I used a PVC tube to keep most of main spring out of the way to facilitate installing it and hub assembly as a single unit. Note the main spring attachment to the hub shown better in the second photo.
Using a pair of plies I then squeezed the side plates back in place. After making sure the engine worked, I re-peened the cross-brace ends and applied a bluing solution to cover some tool marks. Finally I reinstalled the wheels. I had to use a dab of red Loctite to secure the rear wheels.
After reinstalling the motor, I ran the engine on a loop of test track. Success!
It wasn’t as easy as my narrative above might convey but overall it was rewarding to bring the motor back to life. With this mechanical motor repair under my belt, the next one will be much easier.
Next up is a look at Marx mechanical steam engine numbering before moving on to plastic mechanical steam engines.
This post goes back to the posts about the CV and the Mercury with post-war whistle. This past summer I got a good deal on a red CV with beat-up body paint that had a pre-war motor with a whistle (which didn’t work). I got this to have an example of a pre-war whistle in my collection.
As stated in a few posts back, the only reported CV with whistle was produced in ’42. It came with a red body and black boiler front. So it’s likely a previous owner swapped out motors in the above engine (although never say never when it comes to what Marx produced).
The pre-war whistle differs from the post-war whistle in the way that the flap which produces the whistling moves. The pre-war flap moves horizontally while the post-war flap moves vertically. The pre-war whistle mounted to the motor is shown below.
Both flap designs are moved by gear tabs. The spacing and size of the tabs produce the long-long-short-short whistle sequence.
I finally got around recently to troubleshooting why the whistle didn’t work. First, I inspected the gears in the whistle drive train to make sure none of the gears spun freely on their axles. All appeared to be good. Next, I removed the whistle from the engine. This is done by removing two screws and gently prying the side plates a little to pop the whistle axle out of its side plate hole.
I then removed the 2 screws that fastens the cover plate to the whistle housing. Note the upper screw secures a tang that closes the flap over the whistle slot. The only potential issue I found was the gasket material was crumbly.
I reapplied a gasket sealant to the housing edges and reinstalled the cover plate. After letting the gasket sealant dry over night, I reinstalled the whistle onto the motor. Success the whistle worked….a little bit. Finally after adjusting the flap to close tighter to the whistle slot, the whistle functioned normally.
Just an observation: The post-war whistle sounds much stronger that the pre-war whistle. By its very design, the vertical movement flap closes tighter to the whistle slot. Marx deserves credit for always looking for ways to improve the quality and reliability of their products while keep the retail price low.
Bless me for my sins Marx purists, but, I added self-stick repro Lionel CV plates to my Marx CV when I restored it.
I run it with the Lionel tender so I can pull latch coupler cars, and also the 4 Hornby cars I have of this series:
I also used repro Sunoco stickers and added aluminum plates to this set:
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Penny Trains- Creative restoration & consist adaptation.
JamesP- Thanks for the additional insight on the pre-war red CV with whistle. Question: Is there any way to identify a 2-speed 591 mechanical steam engine from a bottom view?
Anyone- Does anyone have any information or photos that show a “Marx Train Dealer” in the 50’s? There is a lot of information about Lionel and American Flyer dealers/hobby stores from this time period, but I’ve not come across anything covering Marx train dealers/hobby stores.
Papa_D “Marx Train Dealer” in the 50’s?
The Sears Wishbook archive has a lot: http://www.wishbookweb.com/the-catalogs/
Regarding the Marx 591/533/5XX two speed windup... they are easy to identify from the bottom in person, but very difficult to identify from the bottom in a picture! The problem is that the only difference between the two speed motor and a sparker motor is the offset weight and shifting mechanism, and all of that is located at the top of the motor. Add to that the fact that the offset weight is close to the same size as the sparker wheel, and it can be extremely difficult to spot the differences from the bottom unless looking at it in person. I like to look for the tell-tale sign of the bottom edge of the sparker flap at the front of the motor to eliminate the possibility that it is a two-speed windup.
I only have a single example of a two-speed motor in my collection, and have searched high and low for another example for quite some time. I know there are other ones out there, but it seems they are about as rare as Marx 666 windup!
JamesP- Thanks for the tip on looking for the metal flint holder to rule out if it is a 2-speed 591. While, depending on the photo quality, the metal flint holder is difficult to see, it’s at least something to go by.
Penny Trains- Thanks for the response. I’m aware of this site and periodically check it as they are continually adding more catalogs. It’s a great site and it’s free!
Let me ask my question better. While Sears and Montgomery Ward were the two largest sellers (based on quantity) of Marx trains, I don’t believe they serviced or repaired what they sold. The same with the local hardware store that sold trains along with other toys and games. By mid-January these things would be all gone, there was no after sale service or repair. I’m looking for information on smaller shops that would both sell and service Marx trains, including mechanical steam engines. There have been several articles in CTT about local train stores that sold Lionel & AF the 50’s, but none I’m aware of mentioned anything about Marx. I’m assuming there had to be “Marx Dealers” that not only sold Marx trains but also serviced and repaired them.
Number designations for Marx mechanical steam engines has always been confusing. It has become customary over time for people to refer to mechanical steam engines using the Marx designation for the corresponding electric steam engine. Marx, however, generally used a different designation for their electric and mechanical steam engines. The poster child for this is the 591/592/593. These designations apply to only the electric version of the steam engine as evidenced by the ’54 dealer parts list shown below.
Similar dealer parts list for ’50, ’54 and ’56 are given for mechanical engines. The ’56 mechanical parts list is shown below.
Note Marx referenced “motor” and the corresponding “loco”. Below is a summary list for all three years.
All these years later, this list is somewhat cryptic. There is no description of motor type (for example AMT-3105) other than price or loco features (sparking, reverse, whistle, smoking, rise-rear, …). Using motor sequence number (assuming the highest number is the newest motor type), price (assuming highest price is the most complex motor and lowest price is the least complex), and loco number (easy to hard to identify), it’s somewhat possible to match Marx loco designation for mechanical steam engines with the corresponding generally accepted customary designation. Easiest to identify is the AMT-3101 motor for the #435-SM loco. This is what is customarily called a 400 mechanical steam engine with smoke. Note that this is both a high sequence motor number and highest priced. Another possible match is theAMT-3090 motor for the #435 and #436 locos. The price of this engine suggests it has something extra such a reversing, whistling or 2-speed. Ads I’ve found for the 400 mechanical steam engines in this time period either came with a smoking or reversing motor. So it’s a good guess that a AMT-3090 is a reversing motor and these locos are also what are customarily also called 400 series mechanical steam engines. I’ve no idea what the difference might be between the two. And now the confusion, the other two locos listed for the AMT-3090 motor are a 833 and 236. The 833 number corresponds to the short sheet metal mechanical steam engine produced from ’47 to ’52. There is no reference material (ads, GGtMTs, eBay listings, etc) to indicate the 833 ever came with a reversing motor. What the customary designation for a 236 loco is anyone’s guess. There are others on this list that can be matched with a high degree of certainty (AMT-3080 is a whistling motor in a 635 Mercury mechanical steam engine), while most would be an educated guess at best.
At this point you might be wondering what’s my point with all this. Simply this, it sheds some light on the confusion of Marx mechanical steam engine designation. I’m OK with using the more familiar customary designations of the corresponding electric steam engines but now recognize them as such.
The age of “plastic” emerged in earnest starting in the early 50’s. Marx introduced its first plastic mechanical steam engine, the 400, in ’52 with either a smoking or reversing motor. Ads that year appeared in both the Sears & Montgomery-Ward Christmas catalogs.
Shown below is one of my 400’s with smoke. While not as common as earlier stamped steel and sheet metal mechanical steam engines, they come up on eBay somewhat regularly.
The reversing motor had been around since ‘36, but the smoking motor was completely new. The “smoke” was actually baking powder that the user poured done the smoke stack after removing the choke. If the choke was not reinstalled, the powder tended to be expelled all at once.
The motor had a striker bar assembly that beat a rubber bladder to emit the smoke.
The mechanical steam engine with smoke was the best invention since the dinging bell….. at driving moms crazy cleaning up the “smoke” mess.
The smoke stack choke is often missing. Fortunately it can be purchased from the Robert Grossman Company. The rubber bladder is also often missing. I’ve not found an acceptable substitute yet. I’m thinking a small thick-walled balloon might work, any suggestions?
The mechanical 400 steam engine had a relative long production life, produced from ’52 to ’56 (the last production year for the reversing motor), none in ’57, then again in ’58 but with just a bell.
Its last production year is a little murky being either ’58 or ’62. The following dealer listing appeared in ’62. Unfortunately, it’s a poor photo copy so it’s difficult to tell if it’s a 400 or a 490.
An earlier post on this thread provided conclusive evidence (a boxed 474-SM set sold on eBay with a mechanical 400 steam engine & a Bangor & Aroostook boxcar not produced before ‘60) that the mechanical steam engine shown in this ad was indeed a 400 and not a 490. Another ’62 dealer listing shows a mechanical steam engine that may have been a 490.
One shortcoming of the mechanical steam engine was the attachment of the metal draw-bar platform to the plastic shell. Torque created during winding the motor main spring frequently broke the melted plastic tabs. This is easily fixed with a couple dabs of epoxy as shown below.
Next up is the scarce mechanical 490 steam engine story.
The Marx 490 steam engine, both electric and mechanical, was first produced in ’62. While the electric version was produced every year thereafter until Marx ceased toy train production in ’75, the mechanical version was only produced in ’62 and even then, only in limited quantity making it probably the second hardest to find after the 2-speed mechanical 571 steam engine. In its one year of production it was produced with both smoking and non-smoking wind-up engines. The 490 shell was thinner (and about 10% lighter) than that of the 400 and appears to have used a cheaper grade of polystyrene making it more prone to breaks on the edges of the cab roof and steam chest screw attachment points. My smoking 490 is shown below. It has the all too typical broken cab roof corners.
Here is a mechanical 490 non-smoking steam engine listed on eBay this past summer with fractures in both steam chests caused by over tightening the motor attachment screws.
While the mechanical 490 steam engine looks almost identical to the mechanical 400 steam engines there are significant and subtle differences. A significant cost savings was making the boiler front integral with the shell whereas the 400 had a separately installed boiler front. Other significant differences are shown in the photos below.
I’ve not come across any retail ads for the mechanical 490 steam engine. My only source of information on the mechanical 490 steam engine is from a poor photocopy of Marx’s train dealer-catalog for ’62 in GGtMTs (shown below) and sale of boxed sets (which is rare).
The last post provided evidence that set 473-SM contained a mechanical 400 steam engine with smoke. I’ve found a listing on Liveautions for a boxed set with a mechanical 490 non-smoking steam engine that contained a NYC tender, green 28500 Lehigh Valley high sided gondola, red 37973 Pennsylvania boxcar, and red 20102 NYC caboose. Unfortunately, no set number was given or visible on the box photo.
The rolling stock in this set matches that of set no. 453. I’ve attempted to recreate set no. 453 dealer listing to support this statement. I was somewhat surprised at my first attempt as the windows of the 490 looked “too tall”. So I changed out the 490 for a 400 and the window height looks to be a better match. Now I’m reasonably sure the engine in the set no. 453 dealer list is a mechanical 400 steam engine.
The Silicon Underground has an article on Marx boxed train set no. 452 bought at an estate sale. This set contained mechanical 490 steam engine with smoke and the same rolling stock as set no. 453. Unfortunately there were no photos that accompanied the article. Despite the finding above, I believe the mechanical non-smoking 490 steam end came in set 453. Here’s why. Marx would have prepared the dealer catalog before the Toy Fair and probably before the mechanical 490 mechanical steam engine was available. Substituting the mechanical 400 steam engine was close enough for Marx. It is well known that Marx freely substituted set rolling stock.
The make-up of these two sets wasn’t unique. Shown below is a boxed set with these cars except the mechanical steam engine is a 401which didn’t debut until ’63.
Finally, it’s interesting to note that in ‘63 Marx again used number 453, but this time headed by a mechanical 401 steam engine. Marx was consistent at being inconsistent with its numbering system.
With train sales plummeting in the 60’s, it’s a mystery why Marx would have produced both 400 and 490 mechanical steam engines in ’62. The sets headed by the mechanical 400 steam engine may have been to use up left-over stock. Sears had ads for the electric 400 steam engine through ’61. It’s likely Marx produced mechanical 400 steam engines for small retailers through this year too. In the case of the 490, when the new molds were ordered maybe someone just copied the previous 400 mold order wording, which included the inserts to make mechanical shells. Since there was not the same interest in preserving Marx production history compared to that of Lionel, we’ll probably never know the answers to these questions.
Next up, and update on the Marlines 198.
Curiously, I have two different smoking mechanical sets... one which is numbered 473 and the other which is numbered 473SM. I believe both to be original.
The one marked 473SM contains the 490 puffer. It is in the red & gold style of box with the "Bulletins" board in the lower left corner. In addition to the 241708 B&O gon and 37967 Pennsy boxcar, it also includes a UP notch-front tender and a 3824 UP caboose.
The 473 set contains the 401 puffer. It is in the light blue & yellow box with the boy and semaphore on the front. While it also has a B&O gon and Pennsy boxcar, the notch-front tender is lettered for New York Central, and the caboose is an NYC 20102.
It is interesting that this helps us date the design of the boxes, since the 490 set would have been made in '62 and the 401 set would have been from '63. Another interesting observation (at least to me) is that the 400 shell had a relief cast into the interior of the boiler shell to allow the riser gear to operate without problem, while the 490 shell lacked that relief. As a consequence, the non-smoking 490's with the riser gear motor that I have had in my possession all tended to have the riser gear catch on the shell when winding. Careful positioning of the motor when tightening the mounting screws helps minimize the problem, but doesn't fix it completely.
And yes, the 490 shells seem to be brittle and fragile. They are hard to find in any condition, but unbroken examples are certainly uncommon!
I never noticed the relief in the 400 shell for the rise gear motor before. Shown below is a comparison which shows the relief in the 400 shell that’s missing on the 490 shell.
While looking at the two shells, I also noticed that the drawbar platform is attached differently for the 400 and 490.
The last difference I stumbled upon is the 490 shell is slightly longer than that of the 400. The motor attachment screw holes are also slightly different.
Finally, the set numbering certainly looks like pea soup. I’m trying to locate some additional information before commenting further.
Back a few posts ago I described the Marx734/994 long sheet metal mechanical steam engine. Part of that post attempted to describe the known variations, one of which was:
Red with ?? motor(s) (rare, I’ve only seen on train web site)
Well, if you have some spare pocket change, a red 994 is currently available on eBay for $1,100. It is a great looking locomotive & tender combination and the phrase “ultra-rare” is believable.
It also at least partially answers the question on what type motor(s); whistling.
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