Postwar PaulDo you know anything about "Alweg" ?
Not a whole lot. Here's what Wikipedia has to say: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alweg
"Alweg was a transportation company known for pioneering straddle-beam monorails.[citation needed]
Alweg was founded by Swedish industrial magnate Dr. Axel Lennart Wenner-Gren in January 1953 as Alweg-Forschung, GmbH (Alweg Research Corporation), based in Fühlingen, a suburb of Cologne, Germany. The company was an outgrowth of the Verkehrsbahn-Studiengesellschaft (Transit Railway Study Group), which had already presented its first monorail designs and prototypes in the previous year. The Alweg name is an acronym of Dr. Wenner-Gren's name (Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren).
Alweg is best remembered for their role in building the original Disneyland Monorail System of Disneyland, which opened in 1959, and the Seattle Center Monorail, which opened for the 1962 Century 21 Exposition.[1] Both systems remain operational, with the Seattle Center Monorail still using the original Alweg trains which have traveled over one million miles. A third system, built in Turin for the Italia 61 exposition remained unused a few months after the exposition closed and was destroyed by a fire in the late 1970s, most probably set by vandals. The remnants of the system were scrapped in 1981, with the north station now being repurposed as an office building."
Turin Monorail
"In 1963, Alweg put forward a proposal to the city of Los Angeles for a monorail system that would be designed, built, operated and maintained by Alweg. Alweg promised to take all financial risk for the construction with the cost of the system to be recovered through fares collected. The City Council rejected the proposal in favor of not building a transit system at all. This move was greatly resented by famed author Ray Bradbury who supported the monorail project and resented the later move to build a subway in Los Angeles.[2]
Alweg's technology was licensed in 1960 by Hitachi Monorail, which continues to construct monorails based on Alweg technology around the world. What was for decades the world's busiest monorail line, the Tokyo Monorail, was completed in 1964 by what was then the Hitachi-Alweg division of Hitachi, and today's busiest monorail system, Chongqing Rail Transit, is also based on Alweg and Hitachi technology.
After Alweg ran into financial difficulties, Alweg's German operations were taken over by Krupp.[citation needed] Alweg's Seattle subsidiary Wegematic ceased operations in 1964, but some of the technology used in the Disneyland monorail was eventually acquired by the Canadian company Bombardier.[citation needed]
In the 1960s there was a plan to build an ALWEG monorail in the High Tatras in Slovakia.[citation needed]"
Kuala Lumpur Monorail
And this is from the Monorail Society: http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/TPAlweg2.html
"
There once was a Swedish industrialist who had a lot of money in postwar Germany. Because of laws at that time, he was only allowed to spend the money within the German borders. He chose to invest ot in a new advanced straddle-type monorail, and he named the company based on his own...Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren. The first test track made its debut in 1952 and was geared more towards demonstrating a high-speed intercity rail system. With further study, it was found that the simple elegant design would be ideal for modern urban transit. In July of 1957 the first full-sized ALWEG monorail began testing at the Fühlingen test track. It caught the eye of a visiting tourist in 1958, who wanted a monorail for his theme park. Walt Disney made agreements with ALWEG to build a 5/8 scale monorail which opened in 1959 in Anaheim, California at his then new park Disneyland. The Disneyland-ALWEG monorail captured the world's imagination and attention more than any other monorail had to date.
As a result of that attention, more ALWEG demonstration lines were built. One lasted less than a year at a 1961 auto exposition in Turin, Italy. Another was built for the Century 21 world's fair in Seattle, Washington. That system, along with the one in Disneyland, caught the attention of the Japanese. They in turn purchased rights from ALWEG to build monorails in Japan. Nowhere else on earth can one find more ALWEG-based monorail systems in operation today. However, only one ALWEG Company-built monorail remains in existence, the Seattle Monorail. ALWEG went out of business in the 1960's, but their legacy lives on in Bombardier and Hitachi transit monorails. The Seattle ALWEG monorail has been in operation since 1962. This technology is not new, but tried-and-true. As you will see, it was way ahead of its time."
Mr ALWEG:
Fuhlingen Test Track:
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Curiosity is setting in:
Do you know anything about "Alweg" ?
were they the manufacturers, or the designers? I know at Disneyland they always referred to their "Alweg Monorail". Same name mentioned in Seattle.
Monorails could have been the answer. Here in L.A., they are building up the Metro system- mostly on the right of way of the Pacific Electric they worked so hard to tear out !
Go figure...
I was just re-reading your post. So the Garrett is a Henschel ? That's very interesting. I know that some of the garretts in Africa are not Beyer Peacock, which would be what you would normally expect.
Fascinating !
Penny Trains A small tribute in the form of a Mark triple niner: Wow ! That's tight !
A small tribute in the form of a Mark triple niner:
Back to the Monorails, a lot of myths and legends have sprung up about them over the years. Here are a few from
Werner Weiss at Yesterland.com:
The figure of a million dollars per mile keeps coming up in Internet discussions about expanding the Walt Disney World Monorail system. Someone will post that it would certainly be nice if Walt Disney World would replace the stinky diesel bus fleet with sleek “highway in the sky” Monorail lines. Then, someone will reply that they heard that the cost would be a hefty million dollars per mile, and that’s just prohibitive. Actually, if The Walt Disney Company could add ten miles to the Monorail system for just $10 million, it would undoubtedly jump at the opportunity. The truth is that the cost would be much, much higher.
It’s in writing from Disney!
Why does this easment exist? (This is my favorite part. ) Because the ten year plan for Walt Dinsey World included this:
Like Walt's plans for EPCOT, Disney Co. executives realized early on if you had residents living on the property and/or business tennants renting office space there, you would have to give them voting rights concerning the usage and development of the 27,000 acre WDW property. Now, while some rides and attractions may appear as such, can you imagine what Walt Disney World would look like if it actually was designed and run "by a commitee"????
My radar is detecting Henschel , Orenstein and Koppel, North British Locomotive, and Beyer Peacock. If I may hazard a guess...
They are beauties !
Postwar PaulIt's amazing what steamers can burn.
Add bamboo to the list for locomotives running in Thailand:
This page: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/country.cfm?which=thailand gives good info and pics of the 77 remaining steam locos in the country. 261 is probably my favorite Thai loco. All were meter gauge and most were much smaller than a pacific.
Here's a Henschel v& Son (Kassel) Garrat:
This one was a logging loco (teak would be a good guess):
You really can find locos in the woods...er, jungle...in Thailand!
I like this one a lot too:
I don't know much about excursions over there, but I do know they run this train once a year:
Note the tender to tender configuration of the double header.
I suspect the main problem with 85's restoration is the same one most restorers have. Money. It takes buckets of it to get a long-neglected steamer running again.
Linn Moedinger of the Strasburg Railroad who's probably forgotten more about steam restoration than anyone else will ever know once said "It's always going to cost more than you think it will. I've been doing this all my life and have never been right on an estimate yet."
It's amazing what steamers can burn. Wood, coal, oil ( which is usually " bunker C"), which is so thick, they have to heat it to make it flow. Some kid train rides use gas, like propane. There was a train ride at Pea Soup Anderson's in Buellton, California. For a very short time, they had a small zoo, with a standard Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 pulling the train. I watched the man fire her with charcoal briquettes ( a la BBQ ).
Some sugar cane operations burned the unusable leaves, and debris from the harvesting process. I've heard of an operation in the Philippines that does this.
If you google "Oahu Railway 85", they have an update on this engine. It has not been going smoothly, and now it is in Oahu at the Ewa Plantation Museum. They are trying to get it running. So much rail history in Hawaii, but most gone without a trace.
Postwar Paul Penny Trains This would be a "whaleback" tender, as popularized by the N-C-O. ( the Nevada-California-Oregon). An oil fired locomotive, obviously. The one take away I have from the L.K.& P. In Maui is need to conserve resources on the island, and reduce waste. L.K.& P. Engines are oil fired, with waste oil from automotive oil changes. Postwar Paul This is from our trip to Maui in '92. the L.K.& P. What a fascinating tender!
Penny Trains This would be a "whaleback" tender, as popularized by the N-C-O. ( the Nevada-California-Oregon). An oil fired locomotive, obviously. The one take away I have from the L.K.& P. In Maui is need to conserve resources on the island, and reduce waste. L.K.& P. Engines are oil fired, with waste oil from automotive oil changes. Postwar Paul This is from our trip to Maui in '92. the L.K.& P. What a fascinating tender!
This would be a "whaleback" tender, as popularized by the N-C-O. ( the Nevada-California-Oregon). An oil fired locomotive, obviously. The one take away I have from the L.K.& P. In Maui is need to conserve resources on the island, and reduce waste.
L.K.& P. Engines are oil fired, with waste oil from automotive oil changes.
Postwar Paul This is from our trip to Maui in '92. the L.K.& P.
This is from our trip to Maui in '92.
the L.K.& P.
What a fascinating tender!
Very smart, and they're not the first ones to do this. The now-defunct Morris County Central steam tourist railroad in New Jersey did the same thing starting in the mid-Sixties. The road's organizer, Earl Gil, had a tanker truck he drove around to gas stations and auto repair shops collecting waste oil which those establishments were only too happy to get rid of easily. Earl got all the fuel he needed for the locomotives, and free as well!
Which most people assocrate with this tender style.
Here's an N-C-O engine with a whaleback. This railroad didn't last too long, many engines passed to the S.P. Narrow gauge.
I am sitting here in Monorail Heaven! Thank You ! I think I am a Mark 111 kind of guy, because that's what I remember. But the Mark 7 is great, really need to check it out.
On Seattle's monorail: been there many times. They had the 1962 World's fair in Seattle, and built the Space Needle, the complex below, and the Monorail. If you go up in the Space Needle, it rotates very slowly, so you can enjoy views of downtown, and Puget Sound. The funny thing about the Monorail, is that you go from the excitement of the Space Needle and environs, to a somewhat non descript part of downtown. You get off the Monorail, take one look around, and wonder " when's the next train ?".
But, Seattle is a great city. I spent many vacations there, and at one point seriously considered making the move.
The problem with the monorails is that most of the modifications over the years didn't change the outside appearance.
Mark 1 1959-1961:
Mark II 1961-1969:
Nearly identical except these are 4 car trains. As built, the Monorail was an 8/10 mile ride around Tomorrowland. But when they extended the route to stop at the Disneyland Hotel, they needed greater capacity trains since now hotel guests could ride into the park and bypass the ticket kisosks entirely.
Mark III 1969-1987:
Can you guess what's different? That's right, another increase in ridership meant adding another car!
Mark IV 1971-1989:
The WDW Monorails originally had bench seats and guests were encouraged to "slide over" till they were practically popping out the windows!
Mark V 1986-2008:
The white cars come to Anaheim. The Mark V's have that "ridge" on top, but I have no idea why.
It should also be noted that while Disneyland guests have always been able to open the windows, WDW guests cannot.
Mark VI 1989-today:
Achieving greater capacity by eliminating comfort.
Mark VII 2008-today
Some of the bench seats now face perpendicular to the motion of the car.
Why?
Remember when people used to leave these things at home and rent the much smaller, simpler and more "friendly to other guests" ones available at the parks?
If I had a time machine I'd spend a week or two at the Century 21 Exposition.
They really did it right. The fair paid for a lot of cultural and municipal buildings and turned Seattle from a "frontier town" (as it was described in a documentary I saw) into a full fledged city on the map.
Wow, those Monorails ! To the casual observer ( me) I knew they had been updated over the years, but I could not tell you which was which. Thank You for taking the time to explain !
I also would occasionally ride the " other " monorail. The one up in Seattle that runs to the Space Needle.
They had 2 Porter engines, 2-4-0 wheel arrangement. Look similar to Cedar Park, somewhat ?
Traveltown days...
There are great shots of this engine running on the Oahu Railway and Land, in Gale Treiber's book "Hawaiian Railway Album, WWII Photographs "
This is 85
Here are some shots of the Hawaiianhttps://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/47a7ce25b3127cce98548a32fa550000001010kAbNWjdu3cNWLKAS when they were here...
Penny Trains Yes! The LA Live Steamers have Walt Disney's barn: Some of Ward's toys at the barn: Walt's locos are on display inside: Including the King George VI: If I ever get to the left coast it's very high on my list of sights to see! Travel Town and Rail Giants too! L.K.&P. #5: No. 5: a 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge outside frame 0-6-2 saddle tank locomotive. This engine is not in operating condition, but it is the only steam engine owned by the LKPRR with historical ties to Hawaii. It once ran on the Oahu Railway and Land Company until it was donated in 1954 to the Travel Town Museum in Los Angeles.[7] Through an equipment trade with Travel Town, the LKPRR brought No. 5 back to Hawaii, where it remains today awaiting restoration. I found the above on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahaina,_Kaanapali_and_Pacific_Railroad FWRR from Extinct Disney: "Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's." Fort Wilderness Railroad Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides. Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's. After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history. Fort Wilderness Railroad Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides. Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's. After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history.
Yes! The LA Live Steamers have Walt Disney's barn:
Some of Ward's toys at the barn:
Walt's locos are on display inside:
Including the King George VI:
If I ever get to the left coast it's very high on my list of sights to see!
Travel Town and Rail Giants too!
L.K.&P. #5:
No. 5: a 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge outside frame 0-6-2 saddle tank locomotive. This engine is not in operating condition, but it is the only steam engine owned by the LKPRR with historical ties to Hawaii. It once ran on the Oahu Railway and Land Company until it was donated in 1954 to the Travel Town Museum in Los Angeles.[7] Through an equipment trade with Travel Town, the LKPRR brought No. 5 back to Hawaii, where it remains today awaiting restoration.
I found the above on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahaina,_Kaanapali_and_Pacific_Railroad
FWRR from Extinct Disney:
"Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's."
Opening in 1973, the Fort Wilderness Railroad was a 4/5 scale fully operational steam train that ran through the extensive property of the Fort Wilderness Campground. Unlike the engines found at the Magic Kingdom, the engines of the Fort Wilderness Railroad were not given names and were differentiated only by numbers painted on the sides.
Though the official reasons for its closure were never released, many problems ultimately lead to the demise of the Fort Wilderness Railroad. Issues ranging from fuel capacity (leading to stranded trains of guests) to track conditions are the most widely accepted however in 1979 it is rumored that a young girl riding a bicycle was struck by a passing train which supposedly sealed the fate of the railroad. Operating only occasionally beginning in late 1977, the railroad was finally shut down and abandoned to nature in the early 1980's.
After its closure, some of the train cars were reused around Disney property. Two were placed on Pleasure Island property and re-purposed for use as ticket booths (eventually repainted to fit the theme of the area). Another was reported as part of the theming found outside Typhoon Lagoon. The Carolwood Pacific Historical Society has reclaimed at least one car and engine in an attempt to preserve the railroad's history.
Firelock76 Oh wow, that Union Pacific 9000, the class leader of those three-cylinder 4-12-2's I mentioned in an earlier post. That's one the real UP fans would love to see brought back to life, but it's not likely. Cool as it is it doesn't have the cachet' that a Big Boy does.
Oh wow, that Union Pacific 9000, the class leader of those three-cylinder 4-12-2's I mentioned in an earlier post.
That's one the real UP fans would love to see brought back to life, but it's not likely. Cool as it is it doesn't have the cachet' that a Big Boy does.
Oh, and they have train shows at this facility.
Speaking of things you CAN'T do at WDW anymore, it was once possible to have the best seat in the house on the Highway in the Sky.
They even issued these to kids:
Sadly, that all came to an end in 2009: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/05/u.s.disney.monorail/
Let's look at the WDW system in a happier light.
Inside the barn:
The operator's control panel. The seats in the background are where you were once allowed to ride.
As it is at Disneyland, the Monorail barn is adjacent to the WDWRR engine house.
Construction of the Glideway:
This is the "Tug" or "tow vehicle" that gets deployed if your train breaks down:
And yes, old Monorails do get put out to pasture:
This is the Tokyo Monorail:
Inside the barn at Disneyland:
This is a Mark I Monorail built by Disney engineers based on designs by Alweg in 1959. WDW opened with the Mark IV in 1971 with prerecorded narration by Jack Wagner, including the lines "Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor manténganse alejado de las puertas.", which you can get on a T-Shirt! WDW trains have been built by Martin-Marietta and Bombardier Transportation.
Disneyland had the Mark V which are identifiable by the ridge along the roof.
They also had a....well......odd life....
+
That's not to say their replacements don't have odd characteristics from time to time:
Disneyland now has the Mark VII's built by Dynamic Structures.
They do a decent job of looking retro:
Mark I
Mark VII
The toy monorail has glideway of a different shape than the real trains.
Of course the dream of Disney toy collectors is to get their hands on one of these:
Schuco made both 3 and 4 car versions:
Firelock76I've been using an electric mower over 15 years now, and never ran over the extension cord. I cut it in half with the electric edge trimmers. Popped a circuit breaker in the house, too.
Doh!
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