Hey all,
After 20+ years of dreaming about it, I finally got the Santa Fe F3's made in 1996. God I love these Michigan-built F3's. They are as great as I imagined they'd be reading the catalog by the Xmas tree. I couldn't even drive then!
That was such a great era. I had a USA made Mustang convertible! Lionels built in Detroit! Life was good.
Now there is no more Detroit factory. I don't buy many trains because Audi tells me they need my money, and aren't shy about taking it. I think I saw a gray hair on the side of my head!
I always found it amusing and wondered why "old people" got cranky. It didn't make sense to me. Then, just the other day, I found myself starting a sentence with "Back in my day..." Good lord, if Great Uncle Andy could hear me now...
Anyway (wiping a tear), does anyone else, other than myself, miss the Detroit factory?
How about NYC or Hillside, N.J and Chicago. Those are the trains that made this company
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
I do because it was so close, parts and repairs where just a short drive away. And all the many friends I met that worked there.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Hi! Well, the NYC you're referring to I take to mean as the original loft offices of the Lionel Corporation? I can't say there isn't a charm to that for me, but it seems so far removed.
The Hilliside, N.J. factory years have that great, gauzy, dream-like quality to me, like the Brooklyn Dodgers, Buddy Holly, and jukeboxes. Before my time, but really, really, sad I missed out on that era.
And as for Chicago, I always thought that was just more of a sales arm of the company as opposed to a production facility. Am I incorrect? I'd love to know more about it.
Hi Sir James I,
That must have been great living so close. I always loved the idea that our trains were made in (or so close to) the motor city. It was a great fit.
Did you ever get to go inside the factory itself? Was it as great as I imagine?
I read somewhere that someone described Lionel's MPC years as "Lionel trains made in a sleepy Detroit suburb by Laverne and Shirley types." I always loved that description and am so sad the operation is no more.
To me I'm just more or less saying the " years of Chicago, NYC, & N.J." yes I believe the actual Building was in N.J. back then. Actually to me the sadest day was when they moved all the building operations over seas.
MPC was a plastics company that made model cars so when General Mills bought the right to make Lionel trains it was the ideal match. So they already had an experienced work force. Learning to make trains just fell into place. Lot's of stories one lost in time was the FM Trainmaster. I worked at P&D Hobby at the time, Lionel borrowed a TM from us to copy from. The factory itself was pretty much like any other that made things. EXCEPT these were Lionel trains. One big difference from now is that everything got tested before being packaged. Dumpster diving for rejects was a daily event for quite a few table sellers so locally one had to exam before buying without a box.
S.J.
Rtraincollector,
I could hug you. The move to China still hurts. I couldn't agree more with you.
Although I found the move to Detroit from NJ sad, at least they were staying in the US. Those pictures of the empty NJ factory really bum-out a lot of postwar guys. Me too.
But at least there was hope with the move to Detroit. When the Detroit factory was closing, it felt like we (and the country) lost one of our great institutions. I heard a podcast with President Maddox, who now claims it wasn't his idea, they maybe brought him on because he had experience with overseas manufacturing. He also claims he didn't like the move to overseas production.
I think I would have quit before I had them use me for that job. But he did it, and as far as I'm concerned, the blame hangs nicely around his neck. And Wellspring is to blame as well, and I hope to meet Neil Young one day so I can ask him in person if he, as such a Lionel fan, is proud of what his iteration of the company did. And I'm not trying to sound mean, it is just factual.
But yes, that era you speak of, I love it as well. Wasn't it New York - Chicago - Los Angeles? I remember those boxes and they may be my all time favorite.
Sir James I,
How is it that Lionel didn't have an FM in the archives or the original mold to make it from? Seems crazy, doesn't it? That must have been a lot of fun getting to know the guys and actually work with them like that. I agree, producing Lionel trains adds a specialness to the factory that most don't have. Dumpster diving must have been a blast. I have heard a lot of stories from older fans who used to do that in New Jersey as well. It was more innocent back then, as they were kids just looking for trains and parts to play with, as opposed to Detroit (I would imagine) where I would think it was those table sellers/collectors.
I would think when they moved to operation to Detroit they got all of the Lionel molds and dies, no? Or were some sold off in New Jersey?
Many dies were repaired and used, some were never found. As for the TM the archive trains might have still been in storage. What hurt the most in the move was they sold off all inventory by the pound. That meant you would never again send a PW train to Lionel for repair as had always been the case.
Sold of by the pound in NJ or Detroit? Did they still have the postwar parts in Detroit? That is quite amazing, a different (better) business model I suppose. That really is sad, isn't it? I remember seeing in a book a great, big, iron door that opened into the vault in which Lionel stored their tools and dies in New Jersey, like they were a very precious commodity to be protected (which, I believe, they were.) Then to be sold off by the pound...ugh...
Selling off the tools, dies and NOS inventory was a really bad idea, in my opinion. Porsche has opened a division called "Porsche Classic" that repairs, restores and rebuilds vintage Porsches, stocks NOS parts, and remakes original parts. Now I know Lionel isn't Porsche, but the passion for the brand is on the same level. What a missed opportunity - I'm sure there are plenty of us that would LOVE a "Lionel Classic" where you could have your vintage equipment fixed, repaired or serviced by Lionel directly. Ugh...
You could still get old trains fixed at the Mt Clemens repair facility.
It was when they moved repairs to Ohio that they sold off all parts inventory. Everything. Parts, body shells, motors, completed chassis, ect. all sold by the pound. I think it was 3 or 4 dollars per pound.
I live about 40 miles from Mt. Clemens/Chesterfield area and I would attend the open houses and tours regularly. I was actually driving down 23 Mile Road not too long ago and let out a sigh as I came to where the factory used to be. :(
Hi Rob,
Isn't it terrible? Especially for you guys who were lucky enough to live so close. Ok, spill everything you know and love about the old factory. I'm sure you're glad you got to go while it was still producing Lionels.
Yeah it is too bad, Joe. There was two separate areas a short distance apart: the factory buildings and there was the visitors center. The factory wasn't normally open to the public, but there was occasional open houses for train club meets, etc. If you google Martha Stewart (yeah, I know...) Lionel Factory, there's a video of the history of Lionel Trains and an inside tour of the factory showing the assembly lines in action. Might be worth a look. The visitors center was open to the public and they had a large operating layout and a bunch of artifacts. There was one display that showed how they painted the Santa Fe F3s . There was a small theatre room to watch a video on the history of Lionel. The Lionel Store was there. I remember getting a 10% off coupon to use there, but everything was practically catalog pricing, so it was still cheaper to go to hobby shops even with the coupon!! Some people have said they picked up some good deals there, but I never bothered. I'll make it to Concord, NC one of these days, but it certainly won't be the same.
Rob,
As for the Concord, NC factory, I have noticed that no one has posted even ONE excited or happy post about the move or the new factory. You would think it would be a big deal to at least someone! No excitement at all. I've noticed that about our local train store too (a Top 5 dealer), the excitement seems to be all gone and now they are just moving product (the more expensive the better).
I always thought that cool artifact wall in the Visitor's Center looked great. I've only seen pictures, but it was nice to know somebody cared about the history. And yes, I have seen that Martha Stewart video! I thought it would be lame, but ended up loving it.
I have a Santa Fe and ACL F-3 A-B-A made in the Detroit factory. Also have a C&O 490 streamlined Hudson that was one of the last new steamers made in the states. We are not the only toy train collectors who lament the loss of toy train manufacturing in their home countries. Among the companies who have gone belly up or moved production to China include Hornby who used to make great O gauge tinplate electric and clockwork trains in the U.K., Basset-Lowke a company that had purpose built models of all kinds including trains, in Germany and the U.K., American Flyer, Marx, etc. Just for fun, if anyone is interested, there are a group of Australians who have produced tooling and are making new 1920's and 1930's era Hornby tinplate locomotives. And I mean real tinplate, as in tinplated steel. Google Fitzroy Locomotive Works. They make limited runs and I'm sure they are both expensive and sold out, but they have a great website.
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