Best way for connecting the MTH TIU.......

[Anonymous]

Hello Everyone!

I've been reading the latest postings concerning MTH's DCS and have several questions myself.
1. The TIU has 2 FIX voltage inputs/outputs and 2 VARIABLE voltage input/outputs (for a total of 8 connection points). I want to run a mixture of MTH and conventional engines; what's the best way for connecting the TIU to the track? To the transformer (I'm using traditional ZW's)?
2. I read some where that it is a REALLY good idea to connect a fast-acting fuse between the TIU and the track connection. If you don't and you experience a derailure (ie. a "short") you could fry your TIU. If a fast-acting fuse is recommended, could a fast-acting pop-up style circuit breaker be used instead??
3. I'm running 6 trains on my Christmas layout. Since the TIU only has 4 outputs (2 fixed voltage and 2 variable voltage), how can I connect it to run 6 trains? Do I need to acquire another TIU? I'm obviously missing something here. By the way, the 6 trains are on what could be considered 6 seperate loops of track; each "insulated" from the other.
4. Finally (phew)....the software in my TIU is pretty old (18 months?). Just what ARE the steps you need to take to upgrade the software? Should I even bother?

Thanks so much...I think you all are AWESOME!

Sincerely,

Junior in Mesa, AZ

PS. I do have the OGRR DVD on the MTH DCS system. Though it is VERY thorough covering the complex stuff...it misses covering a lot of the more common, simple questions like mine! I still highly recommend anyone considering DCS to get it! If pictures are worth a thousand words....video has got to be worth a million words!!

[spankybird]

Before we can answer all your questions, we need a little more information from you.

1. If you are running 6 loops now with a ZW which only has 4 outputs, how are you powering the other two loops [?]
2. How long is each loop and how many trains are you planning on running on each loop[?]
3. Are you planning on running both conventional and DCS on the same loop at the same time [?]
4. Are you planning on running TMCC at all [?]


To answer a few of your questions:

1. Yes you should use a fast acting fuse or circuit breaker between your transformer and the TIU.
2. If your DCS is 18 months old, you most probably have ver 2.21, so yes you should upgrade it to ver 3.0, here is the link, which also has instructions on doing it

http://www.protosound2.com/

[wrmcclellan]

Junior,

You can run 6 tracks from 1 TIU if you are willing to limit 2 tracks to conventional operation (there are other ways for track flexibility but you would need to move jumpers or use track selector switches).

Thus you run 2 tracks with the two variable outputs for your conventional trains.

Use the two fixed outputs to run two tracks each. As long as you do not exceed 9-10 amps for the two tracks on the one fixed output - you should be OK. The TIU is basically able to control 10 amps per output reliably. The TIU is fused internally for 20 amps per output to protect the TIU.

Yes you need to add fuses between the TIU and the track. 15 amps is recommended. You may also wi***o add fuses between the transformer and the TIU. When a derailment occurs and a fuse blows, the coil in the transformer has a significant inductance and current does not like to stop flowing instantaneously, so a large spike can be pushed into the TIU inputs from the transformer.

If you are using the MTH Z4000 to power the tracks, the Z4000 has very good circuit breakers on each output. If using the Z4000, you do not need fuses between the Z4000 and the TIU.

Fast circuit breakers are better than nothing, but breakers that are faster then fuses are not common and have to be selected carefully. There are some postings on the OGR forums that discuss breakers instead of fuses.

I recommend that you get an auxiliary transformer to power the TIU instead of using the power from FIXED 1 to power it. Otherwise you have to make sure FIXED 1 is always powered for the TIU to work.

Be aware that you can also use your transformers through the TIU to run a conventional train. In other words, the transformer handle (voltage control) through FIXED 2, VAR 1 and 2, can be operated as if the TIU is not there. You can also do this with FIXED 1 if you are using an external transformer to power the TIU (otherwise FIXED 1 needs to stay at full power to keep the TIU alive).

You should upgrade the DSC software if it is not 3.0 (look at your handheld when it powers up - it shows the software version), but since your layout plan is quite simple, it is not necessary. Follow the MTH instructions from their website PRECISELY.

I probably missed something here, so if you have any questions please ask.

Regards,
Roy

[spankybird]

Roy and Junior,

If two of your loops are small, (total of 250 feet) and you are going to run command on both, then you can feed both loops from one channel.

I do agree strongly to power your TIU from a fix power supply (1 amp – 18 volt Radio Shack). I re-programmed my TIU for all 4 cannels to be fixed and can toggle 1 and 4 to track b for variable. I normally run my conventional engines the old fashion way, moving the handles on the ZW.

tom

[Anonymous]

Hey SpankyBird;

Sorry I wasn't very clear before! Here are the answers I failed to provide in my original post:
1. I use 3 ZW's to make sure I don't over task any of them (even though they are all "refurbished", I still want to be safe).
2. The layout is approx. 10 x 14 feet. So all the loops about 46 feet (none are too close to the edge) or less.
3. Each loop handles only one train. There are instances (through blocks) where I park one train while another transitions from one loop (with a reversing loop within in) to another loop (that contains it's own reversing loop). But again; one train is stopped in the block, while the other shares the reversing loop.
4. No...I have no plans to run Lionel's TMCC at all.

Hope this clarifies things.

Junior

PS. I tried to paste in an image of my layout out of RR-Track software but was not successful [:(]

[wrmcclellan]

Junior,

Did some of our answers above assist you?

Regards,
Roy

[spankybird]

Roy, I sent Junior an e-mail asking him to forward me his layout. I will then see if I can post it for him, also give him a sugestion on setting it up.

tom

[Anonymous]

Hey Roy;

YES! Thank you SOO much for your feedback. Your's and SpankyBird's posts are GREATLY appreciated. That will certainly get me on my way!

You guys are awesome!

Junior!

[spankybird]

Junior, Check you e-mail,

Roy - pop me and e-mail and I will forward you Juniors layout

[spankybird]

Here is Junior’s Layout

BTW Very nice for a Christmas Layout

[spankybird]

HI Junior,

I have looked over your layout. Not being sure how many PS2 engines you are running and how many conventional engines, it may be best for you to use 2 TIU units, That would give you a total of 8 channels.

If you wanted to only use one TIU, then you would have two loops running off one Channel, which is no problem for your size layout, but both loops would need to run Command engines, so you could control them thru DCS.

Hope this helps.

tom

[Anonymous]

Thanks spankybird for all your time and all the insight you provided me...it is greatly appreciated.

Two TIU's make sense to me too. And with all the info you and Roy provided me....I should be good to go![:D]

You Guys are AWESOME!

Junior!

[wrmcclellan]

Junior,

Good luck. Let us know if you have any other questions setting the TIUs up.

A tricky area is assigning the TIUs their internal address number (ie TIU #1, TIU #2, etc.). Recommended procedure as I recall (I only have one TIU) is to setup the first TIU and then assign it as TIU #2. Then attach your second TIU (it defaults as TIU #1). This way you avoid some agravating conflict in getting ti to all work.

The next step after they are set up is then then set the two TIUs up as a Super TIU. Why? Each handheld programs in conjunction with its addressed TIU. So if you move engines between tracks, they will be recognized as this action makes the 2 TIUs work togrther as one. If you do not move trains between TIUs - then you do not need to do this. Be aware that you will need to keep track of which handheld is talking to which TIU. A DCS handheld only knows the engines that have been programmed into it from a certain TIU.

There is a lot of discussion on some older posts over on the OGR forum if you want to search on "Super TIU" and scan through them.

Tom, sorry for not recognizing or responding to your earlier post for an e-mail. My wireless touter went into the weeds Sat and I did not have time to fix it until last night.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Junior,

Beautiful layout.

Tom (Spankybird) was kind enough to send me a copy of your layout plans. I agree with him that two TIU's, operating in "Supermode", are probably in order.

Roy,

Forgive me, I am going to disagree with one of your statements sir:

"Be aware that you will need to keep track of which handheld is talking to which TIU. A DCS handheld only knows the engines that have been programmed into it from a certain TIU."

This is not correct for TIU's operating in "Supermode" (which is how Junior should operate his). All of my PS-2 locomotives were originally programmed into TIU #1.
I have just joined AGHRS, where the three TIU's (operating in "Supermode" are numbered 2, 3, and 4. I can place my locomotives on the track, do a "Read", read all all three active TIU's (which I have added to my Handheld), read and activate the engines, and operate the trains with no problems. I do not have to add them to any of the different TIU's.

In "Supermode", multiple TIU's act as though they are just one, large TIU. There is a slightly slower response time.

The issue does exist for TMCC locomotives: TMCC locomotives must be added, in the Handheld, to the TIU to which the Command Base is connected. All of my TMCC locomotives have been added to TIU #1, which is connected to my Command Base. When I journey to AGHRS, I have to add them to TIU #3, which is connected to the Command Base on that layout.

I hope this is useful.

[wrmcclellan]

Thanks RAK402 for the clarification.

We have had two TIUs on our club layout (40 x 60) but fell back to one due to problems (usually cockpit errors) with programming and supermode. We just have 4 districts to manage so one TIU suffices. My experience with supermode is not extensive.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Hey Fellas!

I have one TIU already and currently have another on backorder (from Charles Ro). So, I will experiment with the one I have (after I properly protect it from electrical mishaps).

I'll keep you posted!

Thanks!

Junior in sunny Mesa, AZ