Help with a sticking reverse relay on a like new Lionel #8307 [#4449] Southern Pacific 4-8-4 (1983)

[JOHN R ADAMEK]

Please help me out.....I have purchased a like new Lionel Southern Pacific Daylight Special (1983) complete set (both steam and diesel power units) from a close friends estate sale.The problem is that even though the steam engine smokes, chugs, whistles and goes perfectly the reverse unit just does not work correctly.

I started off using a 275W ZW and few other transformers but had the same results.

The only way I "sometimes" get it to reverse direction it to kill the power to the track, move the relay switch from AUTO to Locked Out back to AUTO position and re-apply power to the track.Occasionly this will work but not always.With power on in neutal or running down the track forward or reverse and hitting the directional does nothing but cut power to the track causing the engine light to go on and off and engine to coast for a second but nothing else.

Since, it is so new looking.....What can be wrong and what can I do to fix it?

Next, where can I get an operation instruction booket for this engine?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks, John 

[KRM]

John,

 I know nothing about that engine but it looks great. The first thing I would want to know is does it have a old fashion manual e-unit or an electronic e-unit. I would think it is the old style from it's age but I dont' know. From what I can tell and find it has sound of steam in the tender and looks to be built like a post war 746. If it is there is some information here that may help.

http://olsenstoy.com/746.htm

If it has the old style e-unit it may be nothing more than freeing up the drum and checking the plunger for operation.  A small dab of lube could do the job. Can you get the shell off to see?
Seeing it is 32 years old it would be a good thing to do a complete lube and cleaning on the motor and drive-line anyway.

Rob is correct. I should of said clean the e-unit with a plastic safe contact cleaner and free it up.

[ADCX Rob]

Don't ever lube a E-Unit. That will cause lots of problems even if it looks like a quick fix.

For the 8307, follow general E-unit maint./repair guidelines to get your sticky reverse unit freed up. You will need to remove the shell with three screws to access the unit and assess its operation.

The Owner's Manual, usually found in the box with warranty paperwork and a service station guide, can be found online HERE.

[cwburfle]

I agree with Rob.

And I will add: do not spray it with WD-40 or tuner cleaner. You could try a plastic-safe electrical contact cleaner (some will attack plastics), but I doubt it would resolve your issue.

[KRM]

cwburfle

I agree with Rob.

And I will add: do not spray it with WD-40 or tuner cleaner. You could try a plastic-safe electrical contact cleaner (some will attack plastics), but I doubt it would resolve your issue.

 

Doubt what you may.  I don’t think there are any absolutes with ways to correct problems as long as you get the desired results. We can think and do what we want but I have used WD-40 and Labelle’s oil to free up rust and oxidation on old e-unit drum roller points in the past and Never had any problems. Once it has freed up after cycling it for a while I then spray it clean with CRC QD contact cleaner.  Works for me, can work for you.

[sir james I]

Contact cleaner  safe for plastic is fine. WD40 is a bad idea. It leaves a residue when it dries. KRM got away with it because he cleaned it off after. So don't leave WD40 on an E-unit.

[JOHN R ADAMEK]

Hi Guys,

Being a Summer time gear head of almost 70 and an off car show season pre war American Flyer nut from Chicago,I hear what you are saying to me with out saying it.I have played those games with relays and power window plastic and pot metal switches plus every type of AF pre war and post war reversing relay.

I first hit it with a plastic safe contact cleaner and lubricant from Radio Shack then let it sit a while and went back in with an automotive plastic safe contact cleaner about 3 times.

After it dried off,it is very flammible, the train relay worked, as my wife said it, "Like a 2 time Charlie".In otherwords,it worked twice and then did nothing.

I finally thought back to the 1776/1976 era of Lionel when my son was growning up and remembered those non-US made wonders from that by gone era.Those train were real winners....I bought at lease 15 sets of that "stuff" and I'm being very polite about it now.Therefore, I got that engine to run into the forward mode and switch the relay to the non-auto mode.That fixes it perfectly for my needs.

Thanks for all your help and where to get those Lionel instructions for that engine.

Keep up the good work....John

 

[KRM]

Why must everything become a bashing I know best thing here???  KRM did not "get away" with anything. He understands how well the properties of WD-40 are at cleaning up rust and oxidation and also knows it can leave a residue. So once the rust and oxidation had been removed from the roller points a cleaning of the e-unit puts it into original working condition.
Elementary.  Nuf said.

[Bob Keller]

No need to get into a fight, guys.

Presuming the reverse unit is a postwar style (in this modern era product) I would cit "Repairing Lionel Reverse Units" in the Sept 2003 issue. Depending on which part is being cleaned, it suggests using the cleaner LPS-1, mineral spirits, or alchohol (for the surface of the drum). If you go for the full overhaul, use mineral spirits (and not LPS-1) and it should not be lubricated.

Reverse unit repair is pretty complex, though, and I wouldn't make it my first attempt at self-repair.

 

 

[sir james I]

I did say he cleaned it off. Yes Bob the parts should be reassambled clean and dry.

[JOHN R ADAMEK]

OK Guys, you'll love this one.

I also got 8 of the '82 painted aluminum S.P. Daylight special,mixed lot of 8 pass.,combo,vistadome,bagage,etc. cars, and the F3 A-B-A diesel set up.

I put the F3 A-B-A out there from 1982-3(?) and the reverse relay works perfectly but that diesel horn sounds like a cow got hit and is gasping for its last breaths of air....How cool is that !

Thanks again guys.

John