Sold my Lionel 2-10-10-2

[Dave632]

Decided to sell my AT&SF 3000 Lionel 2-10-10-2. Put it on E Bay and it sold in less than 2 days for $1650+ shipping. It is already fairly rare and I have not seen many for sale. Took some pictures before I said goodbye.

[sir james I]

Nice pics, that's a big engine.

[jonadel]

Those are wonderful pics of a HUGE engine, how much did it weigh?  Was it hard to part with?  I think I could sell most of what I have except for for about three loco's.  Need to save something for the grand kids 

[Dave632]

The weight with tender is around 18 pounds, the length with tender is 30 & 1/2" which I think is the biggest Lionel has ever made. I debated about selling it for awhile as it is an impressive engine. The lack of part availability is the main reason I sold it and the reason I will buy NO more newer engines. I am debating about selling all of the late model ones I have for this reason. I can buy parts for 60 year old engines easier than ones that are 4 years old. I still have the Big Boy which is only about an inch and a half shorter, it weighs around 15 lbs. with tender. The 3000 has a lot of nice features, great sounds and action, but I feared it would give problems in the future as I already had to send it out to have the smoke unit repaired. Lots of pieces and parts to go wrong. The newer engines are much more complex than the old ones and the worst problem is PARTS availability. Lionel choses to not sell MANY OF THE PARTS FOR THESE ENGINES to individuals and makes it tough on repair houses to get them. The boiler front is NLA and this engine was made in 2010. It is prone to breaking at the hinge and they ran out of them and are not making any more??? I would think if I had a popular part that I could sell and make money on I would want to make some more. Me and the grand kids still have lots to run but I have to admit my favorite Loco is the modern SP 4036 and it seems to be my grand kids favorite too.

[Firelock76]

You know, Santa Fe was disappointed in the original as well. Maybe you should have done what they did and converted it to TWO 2-10-2's!

[Dave632]

 That would have been an interesting move. I would have ended up with 2 engines instead of one!!!

[Firelock76]

Dave632

 That would have been an interesting move. I would have ended up with 2 engines instead of one!!!

Yeah, and all you'd have needed to make it happen was a hacksaw!

Seriously, I;ve got to agree with your statement about the survivability of the old post-war Lionels versus the new exotic stuff that's coming out.  I find it hard to understand the lack of support for the new products considering the more complicated you make any particular product the more support it's going to need.

Recently I bought a post-war Lionel 2018 2-6-4.  Can't tell you why but I'm having more fun with that old-timer than any of the newer locomotives I've got.  Nostalgia?  Maybe.

[Dave632]

I have to agree with you. I am of course very careful with my newer engines. My grandkids run them but only when I am with them. I can't see them lasting 60+ years like the older Lionel trains. Especially since the parts are so hard to get. If you go to Lionel's parts lists all you see is contact Lionel for this part and if you do they tell you it is not available right now. Sure turned me off towards buying anything new.

[rtraincollector]

Dave that's why I don't buy a lot of modern engines even the conventional ones seem to have problems but I do like TMCC ( and haven't advanced to a legacy system yet) but What I do, do is I get electric railroad conversion system and replace whats in there and this way I know if something goes out I can replace it easy. And know where to get the parts. 

[Dave632]

I like your method.

 I am going to look into that conversion system as my old 2343 has the old poor sounding horn which I want to replace. Being able to get a replacement board is a big plus to me.
 I do like the Legacy system and even there the on board battery charging system has gone out.
 I must admit the speed control system is great in the newer models as they can literally crawl at very slow consistent speeds, something the older trains cannot do.

[Ted_Yor]

All, my collection is from post and prewar. Mostly abused trains that I bought and repaired. Could you pass along any recommended reading on conversion systems. .

Thanks

Ted

[Dave632]

 Any information I gather I will pass on, especially actual installs, including results.

[cwburfle]

I find it hard to understand the lack of support for the new products considering the more complicated you make any particular product the more support it's going to need.

 

They are able to sell their products without providing more support than they already do. Providing support must not contribute to their profits. I suspect increasing it would be a loosing proposition.

 

A Lionel representative on another board revealed that they get most of their parts by ordering extra finished units, and breaking them down for parts. So high demand parts are going to disappear quickly. It is unlikely that they are shipping in  boxes of the boiler front mentioned above.

[Dave632]

If that is the method they use to get extra parts it sure sounds like a poor way to do it. Sure makes me NOT want to buy any more of their product. Seems like a sell it and tough luck if something goes wrong attitude. I must say MTH is no better, I tried to go on their site and buy some simple light sockets for their passenger cars. The socket design is awful, looks like the ultra cheap Christmas tree lights made today and they break easily. I hard wired some small bulbs into the passenger cars, many were broken, to solve the problem. They do not even list the sockets and their process to order is a nightmare. Just one more reason to stick to the older post war Lionel trains.

[Firelock76]

I don't know if any of the people from the toy train companys look in on Forums like these, but if they don't, they should.

So, if any of you folks from Lionel, MTH, and others are listening pay heed to what I say.

You people are in the toy / recreational business.  As such, you're in competiton with everyone else in that business whether it's video games, camping equipment, bicycles, RC cars and planes, you name it.  No one buying recreational items has to buy them from you.  There's plenty of other hobby items out there to get peoples attention. There's nothing sacred about model railroading.

Therefore, any customers you have you have to cherish ( I don't use the word lightly) and hold onto as long as you can.  If that means carrying replacement parts for ten, twenty, or thirty years after the last one of a particular item leaves the shipping dock, so be it.  If if means stocking simple retro-fit kits that will at least allow the unit to run even if all the "gee-whiz" features can't be used, so be it. If it means cutting into the profit margin a bit to make it happen, well, this is the business YOU chose to be in, if you want to keep the business alive so you can stay in it then this is what you have to do.

Don't sell a man a $1,000 product and then give him lame excuses why you can't support it.  That's not going to win you many friends.  That $1,000 could have purchased an awful lot of other things, you know!

Certainly there are limits, one can't go to a current Ford dealership service department and expect to find Model T parts, nor can you get B-17 parts from Boeing, but you've got to do better than you're doing now or as sure as God made little green apples you're going to loose the business.  Not today, not tomorrow, but once the grapevine of disgusted and frustrated customers grows it will surely happen.

We've got a saying in the business I'm in.  "You will NEVER get in trouble for taking care of a customer!"  It'd be nice if more outfits take it to heart.

[rtraincollector]

Dave632 and Ted-yor I sent you private message about Electric railroad conversion pieces if you have any question I will be glad to help you so you can figure out what you might want. They stand behind there product also. Yes Lionel now owns them but your dealing with a different group of folks here. 

[Dave632]

Firelock76

I don't know if any of the people from the toy train companys look in on Forums like these, but if they don't, they should.

So, if any of you folks from Lionel, MTH, and others are listening pay heed to what I say.

You people are in the toy / recreational business.  As such, you're in competiton with everyone else in that business whether it's video games, camping equipment, bicycles, RC cars and planes, you name it.  No one buying recreational items has to buy them from you.  There's plenty of other hobby items out there to get peoples attention. There's nothing sacred about model railroading.

Therefore, any customers you have you have to cherish ( I don't use the word lightly) and hold onto as long as you can.  If that means carrying replacement parts for ten, twenty, or thirty years after the last one of a particular item leaves the shipping dock, so be it.  If if means stocking simple retro-fit kits that will at least allow the unit to run even if all the "gee-whiz" features can't be used, so be it. If it means cutting into the profit margin a bit to make it happen, well, this is the business YOU chose to be in, if you want to keep the business alive so you can stay in it then this is what you have to do.

Don't sell a man a $1,000 product and then give him lame excuses why you can't support it.  That's not going to win you many friends.  That $1,000 could have purchased an awful lot of other things, you know!

Certainly there are limits, one can't go to a current Ford dealership service department and expect to find Model T parts, nor can you get B-17 parts from Boeing, but you've got to do better than you're doing now or as sure as God made little green apples you're going to loose the business.  Not today, not tomorrow, but once the grapevine of disgusted and frustrated customers grows it will surely happen.

We've got a saying in the business I'm in.  "You will NEVER get in trouble for taking care of a customer!"  It'd be nice if more outfits take it to heart.

Firelock76 you hit the nail right on the head, well said....

[Dave632]

rtraincollector

Dave632 and Ted-yor I sent you private message about Electric railroad conversion pieces if you have any question I will be glad to help you so you can figure out what you might want. They stand behind there product also. Yes Lionel now owns them but your dealing with a different group of folks here. 

I thank you for that. I will look into the aforementioned horn, etc. for the old 2343 Santa Fe and let you know if I need any advice. Looks like the Railsounds commander for an F3 would work. Do you know if it comes with a speed sensor? Dave

[Firelock76]

Thanks Dave, I gave it my best shot, I appreciate your kind words.

Wayne

[rtraincollector]

Dave ( for conventional)  the railsounds for diesel do not need a trigger or chuff switch only Steam engines need that. The rail sound for Diesel kicks in at 10v and revs up as you add power. the bell and horn/whistle buttons on your transformer will operate your horn/whistle and bell. 

[Dave632]

Thanks for that information. I will try to take pictures of the install in a how to format and post them when I am done.

[8ntruck]

Cwburfle - The comments by a Lionel rep. that you mention do make sense, as Lionel subcontracts just about all of their manufacturing to outside companies. It would not surprise me if those companies, in turn sub-contracted part of their manufacturing (the electronics, maybe?) to yet another supplier. This means that Lionel does not really have direct control over manufacturing like they did in the 'golden years', which does put a crimp in the spare part supply. A contract for spare parts from these suppliers would be an expensive proposition, making it much cheaper to break down complete units.