Trains.com

Denver & Rio Grand General Question??

11334 views
30 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:45 AM

It is running fine Fife. I am looking to get one of those magnifying lights for working on this stuff.  There were a lot of places it would of helped to see what I was doing inside that Loco. Smile

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:19 PM

Howzit runnin'?

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:54 PM

Fife,

The parts to finish the repairs on the Rio Grand General came today. It is fixed but let me say this, I never want to go in there again.  Surprise

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Friday, August 1, 2014 10:06 PM

Fife,

Finally got into Lionel's site and ordered the parts. I will let you know how it goes when I get them. Stick out tongue

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Friday, August 1, 2014 6:06 AM

Hey, was wondering how you were making out with this project.  The pony truck does tend to rattle a bit.  Perhaps if you play with some plastic washers, it might silence the noise.

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:19 PM

fifedog

I was thinking on adding some sticky weights inside the front of the cab roof, and some washers inside the smokestack as counter-weight.  Anything to center more downforce on the driving wheels.  Since you have it apart, be sure to add a little hobby grease to the worm gear.

 

Fife,

I got around to working on the General this week. Boy oh Boy what a PITA working on it. There is like 10# of stuff for sure in a 3# bag. No room for what it has let alone any extra weight. I replaced the circuit board e-unit. Also replaced the broken sand dome and bell mount that had the hand rail holders broken. I have tested it and run it without the front truck because I am still waiting for Lionel to start selling parts so I can get the smoke element. So far so good, but a challenge to work on for sure. 

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:09 PM

You're welcome KRM!  I forgot to add an example of how tough those MTH 4-4-0's are.  I had two on a shelf that collapsed, my fault, I didn't hang the shelf as well as I thought I did, and they dropped six feet to the floor.  I came home and found out a disaster took place while I was out!

Long story short, the locomotives survived without any damage or ill effects.  I'm a VERY satisfied MTH customer.

In all honesty I haven't had any problems with the Lionel items I purchased recently, a New Jersey Transit set and a Strasburg Railroad set.  They run very well.  I did buy a Lionel NYC Pacific that's got a flaky sound system but I bought that one used at a train show, so who knows where it's been and what the previous owner did with it?  Caveat emptor as they say.

Check the "I sold my 2-10-10-2"  topic on (now) page two.  You might find it interesting.

Also, check "Sunday Photo Fun"  for June 1st.  Looks like Spankybird's got two MTH 4-4-0's, the UP 119 and the B&O, same as meself.

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:57 PM
KRM
Firelock76 Thanks for the tips on the MTH 4-4-0's I will be looking for them in my travels. No luck on the smoke element anyplace so. Guess I just have to wait for Lionel to move their parts operation. I can't believe Lionel did not do a transition plan to keep parts flowing during their move. They are simple. I have been in on many warehouse transitions when I was working with Cat logistics we never missed a shipment. Shows a big lack of concern for customer service on Lionel's part. JMHO..
So it is not just the everyday Joe. Lionel has shut off their suppliers too. Here is a reply I got on my parts request form a Lionel supplier and my reply to them. SAD at best. "I have everything but the element. i will have to see if Lionel has them when they reopen in August." Thanks for looking. Can't finish the job without it. Your not alone. I can't believe Lionel did not do a transition plan to keep parts flowing during their move. They are simple. I have worked on many warehouse transitions when I was working with Cat logistics we never missed a shipment. Shows a big lack of concern for their suppliers and their customer service on Lionel's part. JMHO.. So everything just gets to sit till Lionel gets off their Back Side. Bummer, another self inflected blood draw on their part, Killing the brand loyalty . "Thanks for looking and if I was you I would blow something in their ear.. Their poor performance drives directly to yours. One thing for sure if you suppliers don't complain they will not hear anything. It is clear they don't care about us simple customers." What is wrong with this picture?????????????????????

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:22 PM
Firelock76 Thanks for the tips on the MTH 4-4-0's I will be looking for them in my travels. No luck on the smoke element anyplace so. Guess I just have to wait for Lionel to move their parts operation. I can't believe Lionel did not do a transition plan to keep parts flowing during their move. They are simple. I have been in on many warehouse transitions when I was working with Cat logistics we never missed a shipment. Shows a big lack of concern for customer service on Lionel's part. JMHO..

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, May 23, 2014 6:31 PM

KRM asked about MTH 4-4-0's.  I've got four of them, the "General Haupt", the "Texas", the UP 119, and a nameless B&O.  All run very well.  The "Texas" has the old QS1 sound system which sounds a bit strange, but it's a good runner just the same. Good smokers too  The only problem I've had is deteriorating traction tires.  I cut 'em off and it doesn't seem to affect pulling ability at all.  I've had to replace the nine volt batteries in the tender as well.

Why four?  They were on sale!  Seriously, I bought three for $150 each.  The "Texas"  I paid $90 for at a flea market.

If I ever see any of Lionels "Lone Ranger" cars around as a set break-up I'll put together my own "Lone Ranger"  train with the UP 119.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Hopewell, NY
  • 3,230 posts
Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, May 23, 2014 12:36 PM

KRM
Rob, By chance would know the specs for the 16 ohm resistor used for the smoke element.

No. A 16 ohm of the same physical size would be close enough to satisfy all of the criteria.

Rob

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Friday, May 23, 2014 12:27 PM
Rob, By chance would know the specs for the 16 ohm resistor used for the smoke element. I am having a hard time getting one of those at the train doctor or tender and was thinking if I knew the specs I could find one at Mouser Electronics Lionel part number is 691RS16OHM or ALT # 691RESC016 I know it is wirewound and 16 ohm but would need to know things like Power Rating, Tolerance, Operating Temperature Range, Temperature Coefficient, Just thought you may know. Tks,

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Hopewell, NY
  • 3,230 posts
Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:16 PM

fifedog
ADCX Rob - So in your experience, 'tis best not to leave the newer Generals powered up in neutral...? This would help reduce the risk of failure...?

There is no power to the smoke unit in neutral on the newer starter sets. Idle away in neutral all you want.

Rob

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:32 AM
Fife, There is NO room in the smokestack for anything. I will have to look at the roof options and will let you know. I was wondering if you have one of the MTH Die-cast 4-4-0 engines or have seen one. Here is the Lionel parts page. Maybe give you a better idea what is there. http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?doAction=productPartFilter&number=6108749001&productID=0f7ef94e-5f3a-42d0-8568-00a2e0c75c7d

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:54 AM

ADCX Rob - So in your experience, 'tis best not to leave the newer Generals powered up in neutral...?  This would help reduce the risk of failure...?

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:49 AM

I was thinking on adding some sticky weights inside the front of the cab roof, and some washers inside the smokestack as counter-weight.  Anything to center more downforce on the driving wheels.  Since you have it apart, be sure to add a little hobby grease to the worm gear.

Hobbyists in other scales have re-motored small engines by placing a better can motor within the tender, and guttin' the inside of the loco itself.  I was pondering buying a cheap modern General and creating a "Franken-tender".

Take the grandkids over to Dearborn, MI to check out Detroit & Lima #7.  Also Leviathan #63 will be at the Galesburg Railroad Days 6/28.  Trust me, once you see it in person you'll really fall in love with 4-4-0 engines.

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:20 AM
Fife, Lionel has already added weight between the drive wheels down low and under the motor. The thing is full. I did figure out how to pull out the smoke element and I am ready to order parts. Larry, thanks for the tip. I found the board was at Brasser's yesterday. I don't see the smoke element listed with the Lionel part number so I will give them a call. Fife, my grand-kids love the General and the horse cars I have. So I got to get her going. I got this set for a super good deal from Ryan so I have room to wiggle.

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Wednesday, May 21, 2014 6:50 AM

Kev - While you are "under the hood", look for places to add extra weight as well.  I love the new Generals (the PRR and MofH are gorgeous), we all just need to pull ideas on how to make them better performers.  They "rattle" too much, and I've learned that adding some hobby grease at the pivot points of the pony truck helps reduce this, some.

Once you've turned this kicking mule into a thorough-bread, perhaps you could prepare an article...

  • Member since
    October 2011
  • 969 posts
Posted by TrainLarry on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:07 PM

The reverse unit board is available from the Train Tender and Brasseurs, and probably other online parts dealers. It is a very common board.

Larry

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:49 PM
Well I tried it Fife and it is in the engine. So I tore it apart. Wow talk about ten pounds of S&%t I a two pound bag. Still not sure how to get the smoke element out of the stack, but like my dad used to say, you can't break what is broken. I do recall you helping me decide to get a modern General. :-)

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:37 AM
Good idea Fife, I will try it without the tender and see what happens. The tender does seem to be working fine. Just another project on the desk.

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:29 AM

Ran into a problem with one of my new Generals a couple weeks back.  It was rolling along, stopped unexpectedly, then started smoking, but not from the smokestack.  This was an acrid smelling smoke, coming from the tender.  There is a magnet spooled through one of the axles, and something shorted around it.  I moved the thin wire harness to the opposite side of the truck assembly, and hadn't experienced the problem again.

You can run the engine without the tender, and see if it still runs erratic; might show you where to zero in on the problem.

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Monday, May 19, 2014 9:44 PM
Thanks Larry, Now to just wait till Lionel gets back to selling parts.

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    October 2011
  • 969 posts
Posted by TrainLarry on Monday, May 19, 2014 7:32 PM

The 610-0107-100 e-unit board is the replacement board sold.

Larry

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Monday, May 19, 2014 7:05 PM
Jon, I think your right. I won't say what I think because of the ones that won't let you say anything bad about those that are / and will pay for adds here and then flush the thing on me if I say what I think. Some of the things on the market today I can only question,,,, Only thing that comes to mind is if you put up with it you deserve it. Just give me the post-war trains and 60s&70s cars. I want to thank Rob for his help!!

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Adel, Iowa
  • 2,292 posts
Posted by jonadel on Monday, May 19, 2014 4:42 PM

Kev -- I think it's an industry wide problem.  I  have spent quite a bit of money in the last 18 months on repair and replacement parts on my trains and 99.9% are MTH.  I guess what's frustrating is that I take very good care of my trains and NEVER abuse them, my problem is that when I spend good money on a product I expect it to last and work well, silly me.  I do like all the bells/whistles and remote options on my MTH products but it does tick me off.

I spent some time a few weeks ago with one of my older brothers's good buddies and he has a very nice HO and N set up I enjoyed.  He sure cussed the N scale but I did like it, I also like the HO scale but I'll never change now.  If I could go back 17 years when I got serious about this hobby I would go strictly G scale, love the tinplate look.

Jon

So many roads, so little time. 

 

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Monday, May 19, 2014 3:55 PM
Thanks Rob, That is what I was afraid of. Great job of engineering in parts sales. Sure did not take long to fry. It was running just fine and smoking along when it slowed to a crawl. Then all the rest. I see Lionel is taking a two + month break selling parts while they move to an even cheaper place to get help so I guess I need to just wait till they get back on line sometime in Aug. How can I tell witch e-unit I need? They list two. Thanks again. Bummed out at The North Bluff Branch Line.

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Hopewell, NY
  • 3,230 posts
Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, May 19, 2014 3:17 PM

The smoke unit is wired through the reverse unit so it won't overheat in neutral. This is hard on the reverse unit components, especially when the smoke unit resistor drops in impedance as it approaches failure.  Now you need both parts.

Rob

KRM
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 6,506 posts
Posted by KRM on Monday, May 19, 2014 2:20 PM
Rob, That makes a difference. with smoke on it creeps but then will fly off faster than it ever has. with smoke off it runs, normal and too fast? Update: I ran it some more with the smoke unit off. It still has a two speed mode. One close to normal ( seems a tad slower ) and the other will fly it off the table?? Just switches back and forth when it wants to?? Won't run long/fast enough with the smoke on to see if it is smoking.

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month