I was just in the American Flyer interest group on Facebook. One of our regulars posted a message to the effect that he has ended his subscription to CTT because of the relative absence of articles related to American Flyer, or other S-Scale. His posting was greeted with a long list of "AMEN, brother!" type of replies.
So I thought I'd bring that discussion here; what do you think? Is CTT too slavishly devoted to three-rail? After all the magazine describes itself in it's banner as "O and S gauge for the operator and collector". Yet the last major Flyer article I remember was from September of last year.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Stebby - I have to agree with you on this and this is not the first time it's been brought up. I enjoy the interaction that this web site provides and if there aren't enough threads about American Flyer here, you can only blame the posters, us.
But the magazine is different. I also ended my subscription a while back because, I felt, it lacked not only American Flyer, but Marx and the other "Classic" manufacturers.
I'm sure I would have continued with the magazine if it had more "Classic" articles, but I felt it needed more Pre-War layouts and articles.
Although I'm not the person you mentioned above, I do understand why he cancelled his subscription.
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
A couple of years ago I decided to drop at least one or two of my magazine subscriptions because i was receiving more than i could easily read in a month. Looking at Classic Toy Trains I found I was not getting my money's worth out of it since there was not enough S gauge articles. In fact it looked like a Lionel O gauge magazine with only a token short mention of American Flyer or other S gauge. So I no longer subscribe.
Bill
Over the past 8 or 10 years I have restarted and stopped by CTT subscription 2 or 3 times for the same reason. When there are articles or stories about S layouts or products they are well done, but they are too few and far between.
Lionel has stepped up their S offerings and MTH is getting into S pretty big. There are several other suppliers out there and it would be great to see tests and articles on more of their products. Hopefully we will have a larger S showing in the magazine based on new products coming out.
As for the forum, as was said previously that is all about us as S collectors and operators. If we don't contribute we can't expect others too.
Aflyer
So why don't you write a couple articles and submit them for publication?
https://brentsandsusanspicutures.shutterfly.com/
I’m not trying to cause any problems, but since some of you stated you no longer subscribe to CTT, I decided to review the last four issues to see what CTT contained concerning S gauge/scale. CTT has run the following S gauge/scale articles recently. This is in addition to other tidbits or photos of S gauge/scale and pre-war items.
September 2013 contains two S gauge/scale articles:
July 2013 contains one S gauge/scale article:
May 2013 contains one S gauge/scale article:
March 2013 contains one S gauge/scale article:
I certainly enjoy all scales/gauges of toy trains, but maybe since I’m not an S gauge/scale collector/operator the previous list is enough to meet my expectations of the magazine. I know this topic has come up before and I’m sure it will again. I believe last time I saw this topic, CTT’s response stated they run more O gauge/scale articles because the amount of hobbyists in that gauge/scale and also they receive more article submissions on that gauge/scale. Brent’s suggestion is correct and CTT has stated that before as well.
Please note I do not work for CTT, just providing my observations.
Regards,
Joe
I subscribe to three other Kalmbach publications, Trains, Classic Trains and Garden Railways, each of which are excellent, however I dropped my subscription to CTT for the same reason and a common comment is that the magazine should be titled Classic Lionel among ex subscribers. In it's own way it tries to achieve a balance and you cannot please everyone but it seems to be divided between new product which does not fit the classic selling point or Lionel, Lionel, Lionel. I stopped posting here for that reason as it seemed pointless for me personally. However I am sure Lionel fans would comment otherwise. Another issue I had was the lack of reasonable and affordable layout plans, which seems to have improved somewhat. I added up the cost of some of these and they were staggering to my budget. Standard Gauge is a classic but I think all of this simply boils down to getting over the misnaming of the magazine..Its a good magazine for beginners per their repetitive how to articles that are fantastic for newbies but are of not much use to veteran modelers. It strikes me as a generic sort of O scale magazine written demographically, which some like , some do not.
I made a comment that criticized a new Lionel transformer on it's weak points and it was never published, it was then I realized you can't fight city hall. The magazine is what it is and it's very doubtful it will ever change. Each to their own. Many forum members that I used to banter topics around with have moved on. I do stop by from time to time here, but there doesnt seem to much going on but the problem could lie with my own interests if thats a problem, who knows? Its their editorial policy to do as they please but on the other hand, while the last S gauge layout coverage was excellent, one article does not a subscription make. It's probably just me but the fact that subscribers write a great deal of the magazine always struck me as odd. It certainly is a less expensive option. The content became predictable in the ways as I mentioned earlier, so I simply moved on.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
I am a Flyer "Hi Rail" kind of guy and have been a subscriber from the 1st issue of CTT. I preferred the "classic" articles (covering Ives, Marx, Flyer[Chicago Flyer and Gilbert Flyer], Dorfan) and liked the Standard Gauge as well as the Garden Railroad articles. I was disappointed when the Garden Railroads went to their own magazine and, if I am disappointed as a "Flyer Guy" imagine how the Marx enthusiast must feel. If we are talking about Classic Toy Trains, a few articles about wind up trains should be in order, but they also are absent.
On the other hand, the Layout Visit articles are much more instructive than they were in the first issues and the quality of writing is much better.
Although the articles about Flyer are not as frequent as I might like, they are well written. Many of the Flyer related articles in the early issues had severe errors of fact, but this has not been the case in many years.
As a S gauge Hi Rail kind of guy, I read Model Railroader, Model Railroad Craftsman and Classic Toy Trains and I take and adapt ideas from the HO guys, the Lionel guys and even the N scale guys.
If you don't like the current editorial policy of CTT, wait about 2 years and it will change again.
Little Tommy
I just want to chime in and mention that being able to have discussions like this is what makes America great.
That being said, my Christmas layouts will be in either the December or January issue (not sure which) and I use O, S and Standard Gauge. That article wouldn't be happening without the response to the postings I've made right here on this forum. Based on my experiences I have to believe that they DO listen.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
I imagine that the reason they cater to the Lionel crowd is that they are in the majority. Personally I have never had an S gauge of any kind but I can understand the reason readers who like S gauge are complaining. Posts like this will probably help but I think the majority will still rule.
I have a subscription to CTT !
I have read various articles & ads for S - GAUGE/scale.
I believe with MTH getting into s-gauge , maybe we will see s gauge climb in popularity again !
MTH made O gauge rise from the ashes in the late 1990's .
With prices rising quicker than our wages, maybe we will be lucky just to keep our train hobby alive !
just my two cents worth !
CHARTER MEMBER OF THE MILWAUKEE FALLEN FLAG MODEL TRAIN CLUB . I COLLECT HO, N , O-3rail & On30 Trains & run them ! I Use KATO HO & N scale Track . I also Use Lionel Fast Track ! I change track layouts Often !
Roger Carp is always looking for S-Gauge layouts to feature. If you want to see more S gauge, Standard Gauge, Marx etc., you need to let him know about such layouts. CTT can't produce train layouts out of thin air.
Wallyworld's statement :
"It's probably just me but the fact that subscribers write a great deal of the magazine always struck me as odd. It certainly is a less expensive option."
is not factual. Actually, almost all of the layout articles in CTT are written by the staff. Most of the "How-to" articles are written by the staff and a few long time contributors. Now, Model Railroader is a different story. Many of the layouts featured in its pages are often photographed and written by their subscribers.
It is also not a less expensive option. The staff is on salary. They get paid regardless of who writes the article. Any submission still passes through an editor's hands for editing and then goes to the art department for layout.. Any published articles submitted by subscribers or other non-staff contributors are paid for by CTT. Far from being less expensive, this actually costs more.
Dennis Brennan
If you want S ga articles some one has to submit them. I'm sure if they had good material it would be published. Tell those S gaugers to get busy and send in some articles.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
stebbycentral I was just in the American Flyer interest group on Facebook. One of our regulars posted a message to the effect that he has ended his subscription to CTT because of the relative absence of articles related to American Flyer, or other S-Scale. His posting was greeted with a long list of "AMEN, brother!" type of replies. So I thought I'd bring that discussion here; what do you think? Is CTT too slavishly devoted to three-rail? After all the magazine describes itself in it's banner as "O and S gauge for the operator and collector". Yet the last major Flyer article I remember was from September of last year.
AMEN, brother !
I don't subscribe to CTT mag for that reason, it is obsessed with 3-rail.
I also stopped visiting the CTT forum for the same reason.
Rich, an American Flyer guy
Alton Junction
DennisB-1 Roger Carp is always looking for S-Gauge layouts to feature. If you want to see more S gauge, Standard Gauge, Marx etc., you need to let him know about such layouts. CTT can't produce train layouts out of thin air. Wallyworld's statement: "It's probably just me but the fact that subscribers write a great deal of the magazine always struck me as odd. It certainly is a less expensive option." is not factual. Actually, almost all of the layout articles in CTT are written by the staff. Most of the "How-to" articles are written by the staff and a few long time contributors. Now, Model Railroader is a different story. Many of the layouts featured in its pages are often photographed and written by their subscribers. It is also not a less expensive option. The staff is on salary. They get paid regardless of who writes the article. Any submission still passes through an editor's hands for editing and then goes to the art department for layout.. Any published articles submitted by subscribers or other non-staff contributors are paid for by CTT. Far from being less expensive, this actually costs more. Dennis Brennan
Wallyworld's statement: "It's probably just me but the fact that subscribers write a great deal of the magazine always struck me as odd. It certainly is a less expensive option." is not factual. Actually, almost all of the layout articles in CTT are written by the staff. Most of the "How-to" articles are written by the staff and a few long time contributors. Now, Model Railroader is a different story. Many of the layouts featured in its pages are often photographed and written by their subscribers.
Dennis,
A suggestion then. Other than layouts, why not do a couple of articles on cleaning and refurbishing old Flyer equipment? Like the article on refurbishing a Lionel GG1 the magazine did a couple of issues back, or the "Steam tune-up" article from September 2012, again featuring all Lionel.
Since us Flyer guys pretty much have to depend on eBay and toy train swap meets to build our rosters, and do a lot of our own maintenance, those kinds of articles would be very welcome. If you want something icon to a Flyer collector, try any PA-1 set, or how about a 4-8-4?
Stebby,
Those are the kind of articles that could easily be submitted by American Flyer collectors and operators like yourself. I'm sure you would have many maintenance tips you could share. Why not call Carl Swanson ? The fact is, unless someone on the staff has an American Flyer collection, it's unlikely that an article about a PA-1 set or a 4-8-4 would be forthcoming unless it comes from the outside.
Dennis
DennisB-1 Stebby, Those are the kind of articles that could easily be submitted by American Flyer collectors and operators like yourself. I'm sure you would have many maintenance tips you could share. Why not call Carl Swanson ? The fact is, unless someone on the staff has an American Flyer collection, it's unlikely that an article about a PA-1 set or a 4-8-4 would be forthcoming unless it comes from the outside. Dennis
Fair enough, let me float one other idea.
How about you make your next CTT magazine project layout in S-scale? This would give your people the opportunity to check out the new S scale Fastrak offerings from Lionel. Or you could build it with MTH/S-Trax. Or a mixture of both. The S-Trax is my favorite because, unlike Lionel's current offering, you get three different curve radii to play with in the design. You could employ some of the small, relativity inexpensive, laser-cut structure kits that are available in S-Scale from various manufacturers. Like the one below:
I think your suggestion is a good one. Although I have written many articles for CTT, including the Sandy Harbor project layout, I'm not a staff person. Project layouts by authors, like myself, are the rare exception. However, I would strongly suggest giving Carl a call and speaking with him directly about it. Personal communication makes a bigger impression--if you get my drift.
As far as me penning an article of interest to American Flyer collectors and operators, I've been toying with the idea. Recently, an old buddy of mine gave me his boyhood post war American Flyer trains. They appear to be in excellent condition and, frankly, I want to play with them. That got me thinking about writing an article. I'll be giving Carl a call to toss around some ideas. Stay tuned--who knows where that will lead.
DennisB-1 Stebby, I think your suggestion is a good one. Although I have written many articles for CTT, including the Sandy Harbor project layout, I'm not a staff person. Project layouts by authors, like myself, are the rare exception. However, I would strongly suggest giving Carl a call and speaking with him directly about it. Personal communication makes a bigger impression--if you get my drift. As far as me penning an article of interest to American Flyer collectors and operators, I've been toying with the idea. Recently, an old buddy of mine gave me his boyhood post war American Flyer trains. They appear to be in excellent condition and, frankly, I want to play with them. That got me thinking about writing an article. I'll be giving Carl a call to toss around some ideas. Stay tuned--who knows where that will lead. Dennis
Awesome !
Rich
I would love to be able to have an S scale layout and trains and discuss them but the fact of the matter is S scale is way over priced compared to O scale or even HO scale. It is out here in California where you get robbed without a gun on a daily basis for just about anything. We do have one retailer who has great prices when he has some S gauge but it's too far in between to make it a viable scale. Maybe someone in this thread can tell why S scale is so much more expensive to they build the partsd with platinum? If a manufacturer could made the cost somewhere between O and HO you would have a lot more S scalers than we do now. I think the scale is perfect especially if you are limited on room. I know this is probably way off base but I dream of having a S scale setup.
Kevin
Can't stop working on the railroad!
Naturally, we are somewhat biased to the brand of trains we love and collect. Here goes my opinion, I do find what I feel is an unbalanced measure of "O" articles as opposed to "S" coverage. If "S" wasn't very popular or collected, why would MTH take on such an expensive task of producing a whole new line of product? In my area,(PA,MD,WV,VA) there is a strong core of American Flyer collectors and large clubs in the Baltimore MD / Washington DC areas.
With the major amount of Toy Trains being Lionel, I can see the magazine featuring them alot, But with "S" coming on strong in the past few years, there could be more coverage. Of course the "O" fellows aren't having to deal with small coverage, they are getting what they want, no complaints.
I'm not threatening canceling my subscription, as I enjoy electric trains in general. BUT I would feel less like a redheaded stepchild, for collecting Post War Flyer. Being a retired "blue collar" worker, I don't have the unlimited budget to buy everything I want. I subscribe to CTT and S-gaugian, even S-gauagian is more tailored to men with "deep pockets", than the average guy. We are ALL responsible for our OWN happiness! If there is NO magazines or NEW products, I can still be happy with what I have and what is available at auctions and online.
Thank You for allowing me to vent my frustrations and opinions.
Dennis Bingaman, CTT subscriber.
I'm another Flyer guy who was a bit frustrated with the lack of S Gauge and /or Flyer articles in CTT. I also collect a bit of Lionel and some Marx, with emphasis on the 3/16 scale Marx stuff. Dad collects nothing but Marx, and I would send my CTT magazines his way when I was finished with them. When I subscribed, I thought they would have more Flyer and Marx articles than they do, and so I decided to end my subscription due to the lack of Flyer and Marx articles. I really like the magazine, but being deep into S gauge, my wants/needs were not being met. I don't really know if I will get into the S-Gaugian magazine, it looks a bit pricey.
OTOH, since MTH is getting into S gauge, I do hope it gets more exposure in the magazine. If CTT had more S gauge articles, I would subscribe again.
The manufacturers just need to send products in for review, or digital images for news. We have done a fairly good job of covering American Models, S Helper, and some Lionel Flyer gear. I expect MTH to send us and and all their new locomotives for review.
Bob Keller
I have mostly Pre&Postwar Lionel,3/16 Marx. If I had the room I'd have Flyer. I have noticed in both mags more and more hi rail type layouts. I vastly prefer '30s-'50s type layouts. Classic Toy Trains to me means original Flyer/Lionel/Marx from the original manufactures.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
Boys, all I can say is what the editors of the various specialty mags I've read over the years have said when faced with the "why don't you do an article on...." complaint:
"If we don't get 'em, we can't print 'em!"
So, if you're an S-Gauger, or a Marxist, or even a fan of old cast-iron toy trains, and you've got a way with words and a camera and the skills to use it, try your hand at writing an article. Who knows? You may have as much a shot as anyone else.
Maybe more.
According to Dennis, I am apparently confused as to who writes what and yet this subject keeps referring to subscribers submitting articles. in order to remedy the situation.
However, that was not the gist of my comments toward this magazine's editorial purview. On a more positive note, I am pleased that there seems to be more inclusiveness creeping into the magazine. The Marx work train article, the greater variety of more practical layout plans that do not require a second mortgage, etc.
As a practical matter, this is not an inexpensive subscription and yet I recently resubscribed after dropping our due to the heavy emphasis on Lionel this or that. Hopefully the coverage will expand in terms of variety....time will tell.
Rodger Carp's incisive articles are interesting even if they were often overly focused on Lionel in the past.
Its a mixed bag. My impression was that outside of Lionel being overly covered, the magazine seemed a bit schizophrenic editorially based on contemporary hi-rail and new product which flew in the face of how everyone defines the term "classic" and this was juxtaposed against with Lionel as the be all and end all of classic trains. But...I am hopeful and put my money where my mouth is...now if those pesky pop ups that block me everytime I try to enter this portal, would vanish, all would be right with the world. LOL
I agree with the lack of American Flyer articles in CTT. While I enjoy reading 3 and 2 rail O scale articles, there is a lack of American Flyer. I've learned a lot about Lionel. To be fair, CTT has started running articles on various American Flyer accessories and a few sets. We need more articles on layouts and collections especially the post war American Flyer stuff. The Flyonel articles are nice but how about the older original pre Lionel era. As a reminder, the magazine's banner does say "o and S gauge for the operator and collector".
I am a post war era, (1946-1958), Original American Flyer collector/runner. I have bought CTT for at least 15 years. I do not subscribe because I prefer buying at my local hobby shop and talking to the owner and fellow train enthusists. You can learn a lot.
My first trains were Marx wind-ups. Christmas 1951 brought me my first electric, a Lionel 027 train set. My grandfather bought it at a Dallas, Tex., Sears Roebuck where he did most of his shopping. I don't even know who sold American Flyer in Dallas in the early 50s but if I had seen their catalog with the yellow MKT boxcar I know I would have asked Santa for Flyer instead!
I'm now officially in my second childhood and while watching a DVD of Fury, the mid-50s Saturday AM TV kid's show, in the episode titled "A Second Chance" Joe has a Flyer set in the barn with a Chicago & North Western Baldwin switcher, N&W gon, IC reefer and the ever present little red "Northeastern" AF caboose. Neat set! In retrospect, I wish I had gotten AF S gauge instead of Lionel 027.
I recently complained on a forum here too about the lack of S gauge in CTT. CTT has published several special issues on Lionel. The Lionel showroom in New York City and two issues on Lionel trains of the 50s. Still NOT ONE on American Flyer! Even O Gauge Railroading is starting to publish some S gauge in their excellent magazine! While I complain about the high overseas postal rates for Kalmbach publications (this is US Postal Service mis-management and not Kalmbach), a overseas subscription to the bi-monthly S Gaugian is totally out of proportion even compared to the high USPS rates! I have dropped ALL magazine subscriptions. Fixed income retirement is understood except CTT's lack of S gauge coverage contributes here as well!
Item: Classic Trains is published four times a year and can't even turn out 100 pages per issue. CTT ditto! For the amount of advertising, I don't expect but demand no less than 100 pages per issue at the price they ask for these magazines!!! If CTT covered Marx, American Flyer, even the friction tin toy trains from Japan, it could easily put out a 100 page issue each time it came off the press. Kalmbach has enough in their archives and the professional staff to write articals too. Afterall, they get paid to play with trains!
MTH has purchased the S scale line of trains formally made by S Helper Service. SHS offered their diesel locomotives with both sound and DCC or without. It now appears that MTH will only produce the diesels with sound and DCC making them unafforable to me and as an apartment dweller, I don't have the room for a large layout where I need DCC. I'm not impressed with most sound units I have heard either in all the scales for the additional $$$. The American Flyer talking station will well suit my needs or the CD of Mr. D's Machine!
Flyonel continues to promote S gauge and their new diesels and covered hoppers are proof that they are comitted to S gauge and even produce products with scale flanges now as well! Not to be left out and the Most Affordable S gauge/scale trains on the market today are the ones produced by American Models!!! I had to refrain from buying the Katy boxcar, hopper and caboose though. The MKT and # on the yellow caboose are reversed and the boxcar like the caboose do not have the squared off numbers that Katy used. Ditto on the hopper which is black instead of tuscan red. A pity and missed sale!
AM should produce the North Coast Limited with their PA and PBs and Budd passenger cars. True, Northern Pacific rostered not one PA or PB but it still became one of the most popular S gauge trains of the mid-50s when American Flyer released it. Ditto with the Texas & Pacific dual GP7 freight set! They'd sell out soon after making the announcement. The NASG takes out a full page inside front cover ad promoting S in Railroad Model Craftsman each month and still, RMC publishes too little S at well. If Carstens was smart, they'd revive Toy Trains magazine and run AF and Marx articals. A quarterly publication would do! Be sure and read the forum at Classic Trains about Kalmbach's excessive use of pop-ups while you're at it!
I have nothing against CTT magazine, but I don't subscribe to it, I don't buy individual issues, and I don't read it. Why? Because it is devoted to Lionel which I have detested since I was a kid with American Flyer.
Sorry, it was just a neighborhood thing. Some of us had American Flyer, others had Lionel. Of course, they weren't interchangeable and could not be run on each other's layout. So, they were always separate and distinct.
For that reason, I am not surprised that CTT magazine ignores American Flyer. It came out on the losing side of history. Too bad. Sure, from time to time, CTT throws something in there about American Flyer. But it is what it is - - - a magazine about Lionel.
Its unusual to have a not insignificant number of readers so disparaging about a magazine's content but I think it might be due to the fact that what they do cover, they do it very well. II that were not so, who would care? I see it as a Catch 22. Lionel as the main focus for so many years here is well known and sooner than later theres only so far you can go back into history on a single manufacturer for so long. I think if coverage were expanded to a broader variety, more readers who formerly avoided CTT due to it's narrow focus would contribute. I think there is a perception that if it isn't Lionel, it gets on the back burner if at all whether thats true or not. Another benefit would be more access to more collections for material. That one fellow ( cant remember his name) has had his one collection mined for issue after issue. I think with a broader base, more samples would come in for review, as the outside resources of CTT seem slim where products have to be borrowed from a local hobby shop in order to review them. I think the staff at CTT is talented but play it way too safe, and and as a result, as a reader there are more photos in the issues than print, or so it seems. I can get hundreds of layout photos anywhere..but reading material of a caliber that CTT can do is harder to find outside of TCA so the opportunity is there..I switched over to the other publication because it had more reading material.So..I hope the powers that be consider a more balanced content. The activity here on the forum here compared to the other has dwindled.That alone says something to me about engaging the readership.
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