Lionel 2037 Questions

[kgkane78]

I got a Lionel 2037 engine over the holidays and when I first started running it, I noticed that it would frequently stop and/or switch to reverse on its own.  The only times it ran steadily without stopping would be then the E-unit seemed to have somehow disengaged (pushing the reverse button on my transformer would only stop the train for a moment) even though the switch hadn't moved.

Eventually, I realized that the E-unit switch was rather loose, so I took the engine out of the shell, and managed to use a pair of needle nose pliers to push the contact on the E-unit switch down so it had better contact when the E-unit was on.  The engine runs great now, but I've noticed a few other issues and I wanted to get opinions on from the experts 

1. All the wiring inside the engine was original and I found that the cloth insulation on the wire supplying power to the headlamp had separated in a couple spots.  I have since replaced that wire, but I've also come across some other wires where the insulation is separating.  Someone told me a good temporary fix is to put some nail polish on the exposed wire to insulate it, so I have done that, but should I just bite the bullet and just replace the rest of the old wiring?

2. Now that the engine runs so well, I can start it and let it run around my track for a long period of time.  I've noticed that when I do that (often running the train at medium - high speed), after I stop the engine, when I touch it, I've noticed that the shell of the engine feels really warm, and the warmth seems to be coming from the area around the E-unit as that part of the shell is warmest.  Also, the E-unit switch itself is particularly hot.  I can touch it, but if I keep my fingers on it for more than a few seconds, they will burn.

The engine seems to be running fine, so if I'm just being paranoid, just tell me....

[rtraincollector]

Well with the E-unit I'll let someone else chime in as I'm not that familiar with them but as to rewiring I would highly suggest it.

[Curmudgeon]

Or, remove the accessible end of the wire and slip some shrink tubing over it. Don't even need to heat it.

The wire is good, it's just the insulation that's bad, and that fixes it.

Also, another issue that comes up, and bear with me, is loco with sliders, massive dirt between the spring inside and the slider can cause all sorts of drop outs of the e-unit. Fixed a bunch that were going to go to auction, ran so well the customer kept them. Your engine is basically the same as a slider, with the spring inside holding the roller down.

See what you can do about cleaning the contact area by removing the pickup roller, and clean the roller, and oil the shaft lightly.

You may find one roller has a;most no tension, which will require removal of the plate, and re-configuring the spring.....

That is, if the problem persists.

TOC

[TRAINCAT]

How successful have you been at removing the plate without breaking them? What is your method?

Roger

[kgkane78]

Thanks TOC.  Since I clamped down the switch to get better contact, I haven't had any issues with the E-unit, so I think I'm good there.  My biggest concern right now is with how hot the engine is getting after its been running for a while.  Is that just normal and the engine needs to rest for a few minutes or might that be a bigger problem?

Funny you mentioned the contact rollers because I have been thinking about trying to clean the rollers too.  Both rollers have plenty of tension and I recently had a look at the springs and they look like they're in good shape.

Just to give a little background, I was into model trains for a few years when I was younger and had some old Lionel trains, track, etc.  I packed them all away when I got older and had all my track wrapped in brown paper and stored in my parents' basement.  I recently took it out and started using it again, so when I got started, I took the time to clean all the rails with a 3M pad and then wiped them all down with a little WD-40.

Of course, the rails still get dirty from just running the train on it and the engine is a little sluggish at slow speeds, so I thought cleaning the contact rollers on the engine might help too.  I've learned (the hard way) that opening up my 2037 can be quite the project, so anything I can do for the contact rollers without taking apart the whole engine would be great.  As I mentioned, the springs actually appear to be in good shape and the rollers spin pretty freely, so I'm really just interested in a surface cleaning, just want to know the best way to go about that.

Thanks.

[cwburfle]

In my experience, it is fairly common for locomotives with sliding shoes to require some adjustment of the pickup shoe contact spring.
I have found that is rather unusual for the locomotives with rollers to need the adjustment.

When I run into a locomotive that requires adjustment of the contact spring, I use a contact adjusting tool that was acquired from a pinball machine supply company. The contact plate does not need to be removed in order to use this tool.

I don't have any tips on removing the collector plate. I would like to read any tips others might have.

[Curmudgeon]

The only issues I have had with rollers and connectivity is the ones that mount like sliders do. Not the good separate rollers.

Removing the plate is a crxpshoot.

Some have tabs in places you can flex the frame a bit to get one side up. Some, well, I've bowed the plate (fibre) up in the centre or down, while rotating a flatblade in the half moon opening.

Some, there is no way short of removing drivers, grinding the peened over ends of the separators, then drilling the separator for 4-40 and using a phillips flathead screw to put the frame sides back together again.

Usually at that point you just make it a shelf queen, as it's in the "too hard" file.

TOC

[nickaix]

Arcing will cause heat buildup. Dirt and poor electrical connections will cause arcing--the current has to 'jump' from one surface to another because something is impeding the normal flow of current. Cleaning the commutator and the brushes will help minimize arcing in the motor. But if the e-unit handle is hot to the touch, I would look there first--especially since there was a bad connection here before. Your fix improved it, but maybe not enough. You might as well take the shell off, so you can feel around and see exactly where the heat source is.

[servoguy]

Have you lubed the engine?  Lack of lube will make the motor run hot.  Use motor oil, not grease, Lionel Lube, WD-40, light machine oil, 3 in 1 oil.  Motor oil never gets gummy and will last for 40 years.

[kgkane78]

I think the person I got the engine from lubed everything fairly well.  The wheels and contact rollers all spin pretty freely.

However, regarding lube, are you saying the only lubricant I should use is motor oil and none of the other options you mentioned?  The only lubricant I would have considered using inside the engine is the oil I have in a Life Like Oil Gun that came in a maintenance kit I got a number of years back.  Are you saying that's no good either?

[servoguy]

I recommend motor oil because I have used it for 60 years.  I have never had it dry out or get gummy.  I can't vouch for any other type of lubricant.  

[cwburfle]

Discussions on which lubricants are best for our trains come up fairly frequently.

I use Labelle lubricants.

Here is a well written article on servicing Lionel trains, written by a person with a great deal of expertise. There are product recommendations, I think they are a few pages in.  Most trains will not need the extensive cleaning he describes:

http://www.justtrains.com/Service/maint-main.asp

[kgkane78]

Thanks for this article and thanks to everyone else for the suggestions.  I took a look at the wiring again and found some spots where my insulation repair could be better so did that (may also look into the heat shrink wrapping as an option.  After doing that, I did some testing on the engine today and found the following:

1. When power is on and the engine is in neutral, I haven't noticed any heat (except from the smoke unit, where I would expect heat).  Everything else stays cool while the engine is in neutral.

2. After running the engine for a few laps around a small oval of O27 track at slow speed (pulling a whistle tender, an oil tanker, and a caboose), everything still remained cool.

3. I then ran the engine at higher speed around the oval for a good 10-15 minutes, pulling the same cars, and I felt the shell afterwards.  The shell near the smoke unit was warm (which I would expect), and it felt warm up until about an inch back from the smokestack.  The area immediately around the E-unit was also cool, but the switch for the E-unit was still warm (but not burning).  I also picked up the engine and found that the area around the "Lionel O27" plate by the contact rollers was warm.

While the train was running I spotted some sparks underneath the engine, but nothing major.  I've seen far worse from other engines.  I've also looked at the commutator and it has some dirt on it, but also nothing major.  While the train is running, I've also seen a couple of occasional sparks, but those are rare.  When I was running the train today, I didn't notice any sparks in the commutator.

[TRAINCAT]

 Quote: "Do not use 3 in 1 Oil on your trains! In the early 1940's Lionel cautioned its use due to its affect on Lionel castings, and in the 1950's they stated that 3 in 1 Oil would attack the plastic bodies as well as the paint."   I agree with this.

Stay away from WD-40 as well. It is not intended as a lubricant. I use Labelle oils and greases as well as "Liquid bearings" I bought off Ebay.

Roger

[phillyreading]

Don't use WD-40 for track cleaning, as it is a lubricant more then a cleaner and will leave a film of oil behind. Use denatured alcohol or 90% alcohol rubbing alcohol. Any film of oil will make the track get dirty faster.

[kgkane78]

Thanks.  Oddly, I've noticed that the track did get dirty pretty quickly recently, so I think a bottle of rubbing alcohol is in my future.

I've also noticed recently that the front contact roller on my engine gets particularly hot after running around the track for a bit.  I've also noticed some sparks from underneath the engine while it is running around the track, so I'm pretty sure that is the cause of the heat.  The rollers seem to spin pretty freely, so I've been trying to figure out why I'm seeing all the sparks.  Think it could be due to the film of oil from the WD 40?

[cwburfle]

The sparks are probably due to dirt.

I guess alcohol would be OK to clean your track, but DO NOT use alcohol to clean the motor of your train. Alcohol can attack the insulation that is on the wire windings that Lionel used to make motors and solenoids.

[JTrains]

kgkane78

I also picked up the engine and found that the area around the "Lionel O27" plate by the contact rollers was warm.

Try shooting a bit of DioxIT contact cleaner into the roller.  I've had cases where the pickup was getting hot, but the roller spun freely and the pin inside was (I thought) clean and in good shape.  DioxIT not only cleaned out any gunk that was in there but also left a conductive film to improve the draw.  Problem solved, which was likely some small intra-pickup sparking that couldn't be seen but was generating a lot of heat.

[lionelsoni]

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.703/KB.215/.f

DeoxIT® is NOT conductive....DeoxIT®, DeoxIT® GOLD, DeoxIT® SHIELD, DeoxIT® FaderLube liquids are completely non-conductive, and neither the 100% liquids or the 5% spray versions contain alcohol or any other conductive constituents.

[cwburfle]

Deoxit may not be conductive, but on occasion, I have used it in the fashion described by Jtrains, and it does work sometimes.

Sometimes I've had to remove the roller, clean the pin, and clean out the hole in the roller. I use mineral spirits, and a drill bit that just fits, chucked in a pin vise.

[JTrains]

lionelsoni

DeoxIT® is NOT conductive....DeoxIT®, DeoxIT® GOLD, DeoxIT® SHIELD, DeoxIT® FaderLube liquids are completely non-conductive, and neither the 100% liquids or the 5% spray versions contain alcohol or any other conductive constituents.

Thank you for pointing this out.  When I bought it and read that it "...leaves behind a film that improves connectivity..." I jumped to the conclusion that it was conductive.  Which seemed strange for a contact cleaner-type substance. I also looked for whether it said it was dielectric and, not finding this, didn't think much more of it. I'll feel a bit easier now about using it in places where one would not want it to be conductive.