Trains.com

Cheap Classics- 8" Boxcars

38524 views
44 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Cheap Classics- 8" Boxcars
Posted by Papa_D on Sunday, April 14, 2013 7:31 PM

In an earlier posting I went over 8” single dome tank car “cheap classics”. This thread will focus on the 8” long boxcars Mike Connor wrote about in his second article on “cheap classics” that appeared in the November ’94 issue of CTT.  The earliest 8” long boxcar of this style was first issued by Lionel as the 1004 Baby Ruth in ’48.  The last one issued in the post-war era was the orange 6014 Frisco in ’69.  In that year Lionel licensed the rights to produce Lionel trains to General Mills. Thus began the Model Products Corporation (MPC), a division of General Mills, era that covered the years ’70 thru ’85.  In 85 General Mills sold the license to produce Lionel Trains to Lionel Trains Incorporated (LTI).   The LTI era span ’86 to ’95.  All the 8” long boxcars on Mike’s list fall within these two eras.   In order to keep his list to a manageable number, only cataloged 8” boxcars were considered.  As this thread progresses, questions will be raised as to whether or not other 8” long boxcars were cataloged.  Hopefully other forum members will be able to provide insight to help resolve these questions.  Finally, depending on my work travel schedule, I plan to post about one car a week in order of year released.

The first boxcar is the 9040 Wheaties.  The vibrant molded orange and three color graphics makes this a very attractive boxcar.  It appeared in a total of 9 cataloged and uncataloged sets from ‘70 to ‘73  as well as separate sale in ‘70, ‘71 and ‘72.  Not surprisingly it is a fairly easy to come across today and can still be bought for under $20.  It’s interesting to note that in the ’70 catalog it is referred to it as the Wheaties Refrigerator Car; in ’71 catalog as the Wheaties Short Box Car; and in ‘72 catalog as the Wheaties Boxcar. 

The only variation is the earliest ones used AAR trucks. All the remainder used  Symington-Wayne trucks.  The switch in trucks coincided with MPC’s introduction of the new fast angle wheels that self adjusted on curves and the needlepoint bearings that significantly reduced rolling friction. There is no difference in value between the two variations. The remainder of the 8” long boxcars all used the Symington-Wayne trucks. In the photo below the AAR style truck is shown on the left and the Symington-Wayne style truck on the right.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: MICH
  • 8,153 posts
Posted by sir james I on Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:50 PM

In the early years of MPC they used whatever parts they had found in the old Lionel factories. Thus variations on early MPC that have postwar parts is not unusual.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

  Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC)   - Detroit3railers-  Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • 1,786 posts
Posted by cwburfle on Monday, April 15, 2013 1:29 PM

Many of the very early MPC freight cars have postwar style (AAR) plastic trucks. Usually they are made up with fast angle wheel sets, and a plastic uncoupling armature that has a small rectangular bar mounted on the plunger.
Its hard to tell from the photograph, but judging by the appearance of the finish on the wheels, I think they are fast angle wheels with some of the finish worn off.
There are a few cars, that are knownn to have been made with postwar trucks, including postwar sintered iron wheels.  I think the 9150 gulf tank is one of them, but I'd have to check.

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 3,442 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, April 15, 2013 6:59 PM

Now your'e talkin about my absolute favorite cars of my favorite series!  Big Smile  I've loved the "plug door" boxcars every since my first set which included a white Frisco.  So far though I only have 2 others, a red Bosco and and orange Baby Ruth.  I did have a blue conrail from the 90's, but I sacrificed it to make a body for a Cleveland Union Terminal Rwy. P-1A boxcab electric in the same decade.  Oh well.

Anyhoo, before someone else points it out, the "P" in MPC actually stands for "Products" not "Power".  As far as I know there's never been any link between Lionel and Model Power.

Becky

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Hobart, In
  • 568 posts
Posted by jwse30 on Monday, April 15, 2013 7:52 PM

These cars are among my favorites too, though I like their postwar counterparts too. The ToysRUs ones are fun to collect, as they made a few different ones. 

A string of these cars pulled by a 2037 is my favorite train.

Here's an assortment of MPC era cars:

J White

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 7:54 PM

Sir James I: I agree that when Lionel changed hands, the folks at MPC used up left over parts where ever possible. The next car chronologically is the 9041 Hershey also initially released in '70. One that I have also has AAR trucks.

cwburfle: You described exactly the trucks on both the 9040 Wheaties and 9041 Hershey that I have; there is a little metal bar on each one. When I post photos of the 9041 Hershey, I'll include a photo of it.

Penny Trains: Thanks for catching the "P", I'll edit my initial email to correct. My first train set from '55 was the 1513S 027 4-Car Freight Set that included the 6014 red Baby Ruth 8" boxcar and the 6015 Yellow Sunoco short single dome tank car. Like a duckling, I've been imprinted with 027 ever since. I've been collecting both the short boxcars and single dome tank cars since getting back into the hobby back in '00. Mike's articles on Cheap Classics have only added to my collecting fun.

jwse30: The MPC/LTI eras provided a wide variety of short boxcars opening up possibilities to collect along several different lines, including the Toys-R-Us. I believe there were a total of 5 different ones released. They are a little bit higher priced on average than the Cheap Classics on Mike's list, but still doable on a budget. Have fun! Great photos!

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, April 22, 2013 7:22 PM

The 9041 Hershey short boxcar was first released in ’70 along with the 9041 Wheaties short boxcar. It came in that year in the 1085 Santa Fe Express Diesel Freight Set as well as a separate sale item.  It continued to be offered as a separate sale item in ’71, ’72, ’74, ’75, and ’76, but came in no other cataloged set. There are three main variations, brown with white lettering, maroon also with white lettering, and dark brown with silver lettering, the latter being slightly higher priced.  The photo in the ’76 catalog suggests the maroon version came from at least that year. Previous catalog images appear to be the generic brown version.  Similar to the 9040 Wheaties, early 9041 Hershey short boxcars also came with ARR trucks. All are fairly easy to find and can be bought for under $20 if you’re patient.

The first photo below is an early version with the AAR trucks.  The second shows the small metal bar on the bottom of the operating coupler.  If anyone reading this post has a photo of one of the other variations, please share.  Thanks.

  • Member since
    April 2002
  • 8 posts
Posted by samplingman on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:35 AM

 I have the dark brown with silver lettering version.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • 621 posts
Posted by dsmith on Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:17 PM

Here is a video of 15 of the 8" boxcars running on my 027 layout.  The short ones look great on small layouts.

 

u0Wb DkGLDY

  David from Dearborn  

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:26 PM

 The next 8” boxcar released in ’72 (uncataloged in ’71) was the 9042 Ford Autolite.  It was a separate sale item in ’72 only.  However it appeared in sets in ’71, ’72, and ’74 – ’76, making it a common and easy to find “cheap classic”.  There are three variations.  Most common is the one shown above.  With its 2 color graphics, I think it is one of the most attractive short boxcars of the MPC/LTI eras. The other two variations all black, and gold/red graphics.  I’ve never seen even photos of either of these two variations, so if anyone reading this post has one of them, please share. 

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • 218 posts
Posted by alank on Monday, April 29, 2013 4:47 PM

Dave,

     Nice video there...and now I am having a little fun...but I think you and I count to 15 differently, as I only count 14 8" boxcars....but as said great video, and as always a great layout..Alan

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • 621 posts
Posted by dsmith on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:40 PM

alank

Dave,

     Nice video there...and now I am having a little fun...but I think you and I count to 15 differently, as I only count 14 8" boxcars....but as said great video, and as always a great layout..Alan

Alan, you're right, it's 14 boxcars and a caboose.

  David from Dearborn  

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, May 6, 2013 8:04 PM

Next is the Erie Lackawanna first released in '73.  It was a separate sale item in both ’73 & ’74, and appeared in 9 cataloged and uncataloged sets from ’73 to ’75 making it easy to find at a “cheap classic” price.  There are no variations.  I find this one of the least exciting small boxcars in the MPC/LTI eras.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Scotland
  • 14 posts
Posted by geeppe on Tuesday, May 7, 2013 7:36 AM

David, what a wonderful video.  I'm sure I have seen it before, but enjoyed it just as much this time.  Everything a post war layout should be, full of operating accessories that operate as designed.  Signals and switches, tower operator, coupling and uncoupling, horns and smoke all worked flawlessly.  A real pleasure to watch.

Graeme

Graeme, Scotland TCA 04-57743
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,050 posts
Posted by fifedog on Tuesday, May 7, 2013 7:39 PM

I enjoy these cc threads.  Keep up the good work, Papa_D. YesCool

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • 101 posts
Posted by daves92camaro on Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:31 AM

what about that red rock island "route of the rockies"one....i have one here and i think its really sharp

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:10 PM

Thanks fifedog, I'm having fun doing this.

dave92camaro:  i'm going in the order released. I'll get to the 7903 Rock Island which was released in '83. There are 5 boxcars to still go to get there. The second Rock Island, the 16200, is even further down the list, coming in at number sixteen. 

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: US
  • 5,369 posts
Posted by cheapclassics on Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:28 PM

Good evening all,

Papa_D, thank you for continuing the interest in these special cars which are so dear to me.   This thread brings back memories of the time spent collecting the cars, writing the articles, and traveling to have the pictures made for the articles.  I am glad Lionel decided to make new cars a couple of years back, but also disappointed no more have been added since.  Perhaps this new remote control system will encourage more to be made.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Friday, May 10, 2013 8:29 AM

Thanks Mike. As I've previously stated, I think your four articles on cheap classics are "classics". They've provided me a lot of enjoyment. My research and hunting skills have gotten much better as a result.

I'm currently working on your list of cheap classic hoppers from the third article in the series. Scratching my head on the gondolas, not sure I'm a gondola guy. Looking forward to the cabooses. This is the only category I'll be starting from scratch. 

Having fun with trains........

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, May 13, 2013 7:11 PM

The 9044 Rio Grande (D&RGW) small boxcar was released in ‘75 in the 1582 Yard Chief Set which was also cataloged in ’76.  In addition in was in the uncataloged 1697 Sears Steam Freight Set in ’76.  The TM price guide  states that this car was also available as part of a Rolling Stock Assortment.  This seems a little strange since the first mention of scout size car Rolling Stock Assortment is in the ’78 catalog.  The TM price guide lists 2 variations: a more common orange body, and a less common burnt orange body.  I believe the photo below shows the more common orange body variation.

This orange is different from the 9040 Wheaties orange.  It is the same color as the 9705 D&RGW boxcar released in ’72.  I believe the re-release of the 6315 Gulf tank car (19611 ’98) is what is meant by burnt orange.  I’ve tried to show a comparison of these 3 cars below but haven’t  captured the colors accurately.

Unlike the first 4 small boxcars in this series, this one is much harder to find.  I’ve most often seen it as part of the Yard Chief Set, and only rarely as a separate sale item.  Fortunately its price doesn’t reflect its rarity, and when found can be bought for under $30.

Questions I have about this boxcar are:

1)      Is there really a burnt orange variation?

2)      Can anyone confirm that it was included in a Rolling Stock Assortment in the late 70’s?

3)      A general question about Rolling Stock Assortment: What type of packaging did it come in?

Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, May 20, 2013 7:06 PM

The 6th small boxcar (in a series of 20) is the 9035 Conrail released as a separate sale item, in Rolling Stock Assortments, and 9 sets from ‘78 to ‘82 and again in ’87. As you might expect it is commonly found and can be bought in excellent condition for around $10. Amazingly, even with this long production run there is no noted variation.

With its attractive blue body color and nice white graphics there would be no further backstory for this small boxcar except for the ’87 release. It’s shown in that year’s catalog in the 91687 Freight Flyer starter set and as one of the boxcars in the Rolling Stork Assortment photo. There are several puzzling things about this re-release of the 9035 after a 5 year hiatus. First, the 9001 Conrail small boxcar had already been released un-cataloged in ’86 & ’87, then cataloged from ’88 to ’90. While the 9035 was pictured in the ’87 catalog Rolling Stock Assortment, the 9001 took its place in ’89 and ’89. Why bring back the 9035 in just ’87? The second piece of the puzzle is the trucks. All the small boxcars produced prior to ’86 have plastic wheels (except those with the AAR trucks which have metal wheels that appear to be brass: conductive but non-magnetic) and a single operating coupler. Whereas all the small boxcars produced in ’86 and thereafter (LTI era) have metal wheels (their magnetic) and operating couplers at both ends. The third and final piece of the puzzle is the MPC logo. Small boxcars produced before ’86 have the MPC logo below the word “LIONEL” on the herald at one of the body ends while those produced in ’86 and after don’t have the MPC logo, just the word “LIONEL”.  

My 9035 has metal wheels and operating couplers at both ends. This leads me to believe it came for the ’87 release. It also has the MPC logo, which further leads me to believe that after LTI bought the rights to produce Lionel trains from MPC, it found a fairly large number of 9035 bodies that were subsequently used in the ’87 release.

Generally this is considered a minor variation with no difference in price because it is too easy to swap frames out to create this variation. We’ll come to a different situation where using up left over bodies from the MPC did create a rare variation for the 7925 Erie Lackawanna small box car.  Finally, below is a comparison of steel, brass, and plastic wheels. The problem with the plastic wheels is they are too light making the rolling stock somewhat top heavy.

Keep it fun!

Papa D

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: US
  • 250 posts
Posted by Warburton on Monday, May 20, 2013 8:51 PM

I note that there is a small boxcar in one of the new  remote control sets offered in the new Ready-to-Run catalog this year -- the Christmas set.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • 227 posts
Posted by nickaix on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:17 AM

Papa_D

The 9044 Rio Grande (D&RGW) small boxcar was released in ‘75 in the 1582 Yard Chief Set which was also cataloged in ’76.  In addition in was in the uncataloged 1697 Sears Steam Freight Set in ’76.  The TM price guide  states that this car was also available as part of a Rolling Stock Assortment.  This seems a little strange since the first mention of scout size car Rolling Stock Assortment is in the ’78 catalog.  The TM price guide lists 2 variations: a more common orange body, and a less common burnt orange body.

The guide I have (Greenberg's, 1991) does not mention any variations, and does not include the 9044 in its listing of rolling stock assortments. I suppose it is possible that the car was reproduced later in the LTI era, but that is a long hiatus. For what it's worth...

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:37 PM

The 9037 Conrail small boxcar was released un-cataloged in ‘78, and cataloged in ’80 in the 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set. It was also included in the infamous Rolling Stock Assortments of that time period. It’s a good looking car with a molded Brown (Tuscan?) body and white graphics. Its body color is the same as the 9711 Southern released in ’74-’75. It has one fixed and one operating coupler with the dreaded (at least by me) plastic wheels.

Unlike its sibling, the 9035 blue Conrail small boxcar, there’s not more of a story to tell about it. It is more common than its limited production run would suggest, with a market price of around $10 to $15.

This is an example of a small boxcar being somewhat common because it was included in a Rolling Stock Assortment.  It is further suggestive evidence the somewhat rare  9044 Rio Grande was not included in any Rolling Stock Assortment.  Thanks nickaix for sharing some information on this.

Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, June 3, 2013 7:02 PM

Next up is the 9339 Great Northern small boxcar released in 79-83 & ’86, and uncataloged in ’85. In ’79 & ’80 it was part of the 1960 Midnight Flyer starter set. It was moved up to the 1252 Heavy Iron mid-range set in ’82 & ’83. It is shown in the ’86 catalog Rolling Stock Assortment photo. Like most of the MPC era small box cars it has the low cost (aka cheap) plastic wheels with one fixed and one operating coupler. There are no reported variations. The only other thing of note is the undecorated dark green body was also used in the 7905 Black Cave Flyer set released in ’82.

I bought my 9339 without a box. It has play wear & scuff marks. My guess is it most likely came from a Midnight Flyer set break-up. All-in-all it’s a nice looking car that mixes well with other small boxcars pulled by a traditional sized engine.

Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, June 10, 2013 6:55 PM

Three years passed before MPC released the next small boxcar, the 7902 Santa Fe. It was a separate sale item in ’82, in the 1353 Southern Streak set from ’83 to ’85, and shown in the ’83 catalog Rolling Stock Assortment photo. It may have well been in the ’84 Rolling Stock Assortment, however there is not photo in that year’s catalog, just a small one sentence note at the bottom of a page mentioning the Rolling Stock Assortment.  Availability of a Rolling Stock Assortment in not mentioned at all in ’85, the last year of Lionel production under MPC. There are no reported variations.

With its multi-year production history, it is an easy car to come across, and the very definition of “cheap classic”.  It can be bought for under $10. One in excellent condition with box (I assume this came from a Rolling Stock Assortment) just sold last week on eBay for $6 + shipping.

I find the 7902 a rather plain boxcar with minimal graphics. LTI did a much better job with the 16227 Santa Fe released in only one year (’91) in the 11720 Santa Fe Special set. With this limited production run, the 16227 is much harder to find and costs a bit more than the 7902, in range of $15 or so.  You do get more for your money. In addition to the better graphics, the wheels are metal vs plastic, there are operating couplers at both ends, and AFS Ride Control vs Symington-Wayne trucks.

Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:30 AM

A dilemma on which small boxcar to do next; in number sequence it’s the 7903 Rock Island, while in catalogue release year it is the 7905 Black Cave Flyer. Since I have an aversion to the 7905 Black Cave Flyer, I’ll leave it to my next post and go with the 7903 Rock Island this post.

I find the 7903 RI one of the nicer looking small boxcars in the MPC/LTI series. It’s production history is a bit unusual in that it was only released in ’83, and then only as a separate sale item. It is one of only three with two color graphics. The graphic themselves are like the yin & the yang; simple yet appealing. There are no reported variations. It must have been a very good selling separate sale item because every with just a single year of production it is relatively easy to find at a price around $10.

Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Monday, June 24, 2013 6:32 PM

The 9705 small boxcar was released as part of the Black Cave Flyer set. It appeared MPC had high hopes for this set; they devoted 2 full pages to it in the ’82 catalog. It is obviously a starter set but with a lot of enhanced play value. In addition to the “Black Cave” diorama, the budding young engineer also got to place glow-in-the-dark stickers on the tender and rolling stock. Since it was only a catalogue item for one year, I doubt the sales volume met the expectation.

I had no real driving motivation to get this car and not coincidentally it was the last one I added to complete my small boxcars collection based on Mike Connor’s “cheap classics” article that appeared in the November ’94 issue of CTT. My disregard for the 9705 is two-fold. First there is no number on the car. What’s with no number? The only markings are the add-on glow-in the dark stickers, which is reason two. I don’t particularly like anything with stickers. They tend to peel-up around the edges and/or get damaged.

When I first started this thread, my plan was to mention this small boxcar as MIA in my collection. I had almost bought a complete set last fall at a Greenberg Train Show but let it slip away. A dealer had this set on his table in a somewhat beat-up box for $25. I thought what the heck, for $25 I might as well get it. Instead of buying it right then and asking the dealer to hold it for me, I decided to go to the men’s room first. When I went back a couple minutes later it was gone. I was only half disappointed and half mad at myself for making a “rookie” train show mistake. Again, I was ambivalent about adding this particular small boxcar to my collection.

Then about a month ago I happened to see just the boxcar for sale on eBay with a buy-it-now price + shipping around $10, so I made the plunge. One side of my car has OK stickers with the inevitable peeling around the edges.

On the other side the “bomb” sticker has the inevitable damage.

The 9705 is most often found as part of the Black Cave flyer set vs separate sale. The set price varies wildly from $30 to $200 or so. There’s been a set on eBay for quite some time now in good condition for $180 including shipping with no takers.

Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………

Papa D

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • 233 posts
Posted by Papa_D on Tuesday, July 2, 2013 8:02 AM

The 7909 L&N small boxcar has the distinction of being the last small boxcar release by MPC in ’83 and again in ’84 as part of the 1352 Rocky Mountain Freight set. This was a beginner set that used a DC transformer/steam engine. This kept the cost down at the expense of creating a dead end building block relative to continuation in the model train hobby. I can look back to my first train set in 1954 with fond memories, and still run it on my layout along with numerous other post-war and later engines.  I wonder if the same can be said by anyone that received the Rocky Mountain Freight as their first set?

The 7909 L&N was not offered as either a separate sale item or in a Rolling Stock Assortment. With relatively limited production it is the hardest of the “cheap classic” 9040 series to find. Price guides list it at $35 to $50 in excellent condition. I’m not sure of the actual market price for this car since I’ve rarely seen it for sale. As a benchmark, I’ve not seen it for sale on eBay this year.

It’s a nice but not great looking small boxcar. It came with plastic wheels and fixed couplers at both ends. My 7909 L&N shows normal playwear with some scuff marks. I’ve replaced the cheap trucks with ones that have operating couplers and metal wheels to improve its on track performance. This was relatively easy since they are attached by a simple plastic snap fastener. Someday when I get ambitious I’ll replace these cheap plastic snap fasteners with eyelet rivets to take some of the “rock” out between the trucks and the boxcar body.

Many of the small boxcars of the MPC/LTI era have a corresponding 10-½“ big brother. The 7909 L&N is no exception. Its big brother is the 9752 released much earlier in ’75 & ’76. It's very common and can be bought for between $10 and $15.

Have fun collecting cheap classics……………………… Papa D

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: US
  • 5,369 posts
Posted by cheapclassics on Saturday, July 6, 2013 9:12 PM

Papa D,

Very impressive rendition of the 7909 that you have there.  Much better than mine.   When you started posting about this series, I kind of wondered if you had one as these are not the easiest to find.   Again, I am glad you are keeping the spirit of these cars alive.  In the latest Christmas catalog, they have a version of the 6050 savings car, which was a 6014 with a slot for coins.  May have to get one of those.  I hope everyone has a good day.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month