My old lionel 675/2025 engine runs slow. It also makes a squealing, grinding noise. A few weeks ago, the engine stopped running. I cleaned the brushes, commutator, oiled the armature shaft. Put back on track, and it started running again, but slow, with a squealing, grinding sound. Any other options? Ed
The squealing is being caused by the other end of the armature shaft where it goes through the metal gear cover plate. Look the cover over good and polish out any scratch marks, dress the gear top if rough, and apply grease to the shaft and cover. That should stop the squealing.
Roger
Sounds like a case of ideopathic tribopause to me...;-)
Bob Nelson
Interesting thought, Bob, although if (and this is a big if) the problem is occurring at a typical layout location in the continental U.S. of A, the altitude seems a bit low. Have you considered the dry adiabatic lapse rate in cases like this?
In my experience, several things can cause this, and I have been able to fix most of them for a "good while at least," if not absolutely permanently. Sometimes the hole in the brushplate becomes enlarged and/or elongated and the outer ends of the armature laminations rub. In others, the backsides of the spur gears or even the drive wheels themselves rub on each other or on the metal case that holds the entire motor together.
The best solution is to replace any worn parts. A worn brushplate is probably the be the easiest part to replace; but in lieu of that get some Lucas oil Red 'n' Tacky Number 2 grease (available at most auto parts stores -- accept no substitute) and work a very thin coating of it between the moving surfaces of the spur gears, and especially between the gears or wheels and the motor case. Try a lightly-coated business card to get the grease between the various surfaces, and move the parts by hand to help spread it..
This stuff will seriously resist being thrown off of fast-moving parts and will not "gunk up" and turn into wax the way the old Lionel grease did -- probably over the remaining life of the locomotive. However, it is red and stains like the devil, so be careful where it goes, and clean up any excess.
If you decide to try it, please let this forum know whether it works.
Don't forget to oil the axles!
"Tribo", ma non "tropo".
Thanks for the information, guys. Wil try it. By the way, what does that interesting quotation mean? Sounds profound. Ed
SPOILER ALERT
"Ma non troppo," means "but not too much", used on musical scores, as, "allegro, ma no troppo". The tropopause is the top of the troposphere. "Tribo-" is a combining form meaning "friction"; so "tribopause" means something like "friction stop". "Idiopathic" is a medical term meaning "of unknown cause", used by physicians to disguise the fact that they don't know what is wrong with you. So "idiopathic tribopause" means "stopping from friction of unknown cause".
Very good. I like it. Sort of sums up my running slow problem. Ed
You may need to put in new brushes, and or springs. If the old ones are well worn they may not be putting enough pressure on the armature face.
I'm getting new brushes. The springs seem pretty good, they popped the brushes out when I took the brushplate off. Ed
Which is best for lubricating the armature shaft? Synthetic motor oil 5w-20 or 30, or Luca oil Red n Tacky no. 2? I've seen other posts about using the motor oil. Interesting. Ed
It depends on which end. On the brush side, you can put a slight amount of grease like Labelle 106 on the shaft before sliding the brush plate back over it. Also, if it later squeaks, you can put a very small, like off the end of a tooth pick, size drop on the shaft where it comes out of the brush plate. Any more than that and it will end in the armature face and you will be cleaning it again soon. Again, I use Labelle 107 oil there. You could use 10w-40 synthetic oil too. On the gear side the 10-40 is good, but start out with grease there first.
The Red and Tacky is only for the gears, or behind the gear plate. You cannot be sure the brush springs are good really until you run the motor. Before you put the boiler back on, you can test run the motor with jumper wires, off the track, and see if it speeds up when you apply slight pressure to the brush with a tooth pick as it runs. If it does, you either have too short brushes or weak springs. The best brushes to use are the ones for the 2023, 681, 736 etc. Some guys are passing off some brushes for the 675/2025 that are too short. Watch for that.
Thanks, Roger, for that info. I didn't know there was a difference in brushes. What would be the exact length of the better brushes compared to the short? Ed
The correct length is 11/32. They will just about be even with the top of the brush tubes when installed. The wrong ones will only fill about half of the brush tubes. Most vendors are reliable.
Thanks, Roger, now I know what to get. Ed
Ed,
The part number for the brushes that Roger suggested is 622-121. Also, replacement brushplates that have a metal bushing for the armature shaft are available for the 675. Unfortunately, the part number for the brushplate escapes me at the moment.
Jim
Who sells the brush plate with a brass insert for the 675? I have seen them for the whistle tenders but not for the engines.
trainrat Who sells the brush plate with a brass insert for the 675? I have seen them for the whistle tenders but not for the engines. Roger
Roger,
I got the brushplate from Jeff at The Train Tender.
I bought 3, 675/2025 brush plates from him in the last 2 months and he never mentioned he had the ones with a brass insert. Hmmm.
This is a great topic for me, as my favorite Lionel engine is my 675, the advice here most likely would be good for any Lionel steamer.
Yes, the info here will apply to any Lionel sidewinder except scout motors.
Now what did I do? Cleaned the armature face, brush holder, but I put a little Dielectric Connector Protector on the commutator face, and in the brush tubes. When I connected the power leads, all I got was a buzzing sound. The front light bulb went on. I also greased the armature shafts with Labelle 106. Something amiss. Ed
Di-electric(insulating) grease is not what you want to use if you are trying to improve the connection(s).
An electrical conductive grease like No-Ox-Id is what you want to prevent oxidation and connection break-down, but with brushes, you don't want any grease or lube at all.
Rob
Thanks Rob for that info. You're right. I cleaned off the dielectric, and train runs beautifully again. I want to thank everyone with their input on my original train problem. I learned a lot. Ed
As many others of us did as well, Thanks for this topic!
I use 5W-20/30 motor oil to lube everything. I even lube the commutator which lowers the brush friction which is the major contributor to the friction of the loco. I have a couple of loops of track on the floor right now. I have a 2023 Alco diesel pulling a 17 car train. 5 of the cars are post war, 12 of the cars are MPC era and have the high angle wheels. The engine pulls this train with 10 volts from the transformer. I disassembled this loco and lubed it all with motor oil.
I have another loop with a 2065 steamer pulling 9 cars which are mostly MPC era cars. It runs well with 10 volts on the track.
I have been using motor oil to lube my trains for 60 years and never had it dry out or get gummy. It is also very cheap.
BTW, if you lube the commutator, make sure the slots are clean or the dirt in them may get released by the oil and foul the brushes.
BTW, I don't disassemble my steamers to lube them unless they have a worm drive. I disassemble the diesels to lube the gears inside the gearboxes.
there is an old oft repeated illustration Lionel made and printed in the manuals which came with the train sets. It shows a side view of a steamer indicating o's and l's as points to attend to. I believe most are l's. Do i understand that it is ok to use motor oil where the diagram indicates "l"?
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