Howdy all,
I'm sure this has been asked many many times, but I have heard that to run modern locomotives with older transformers, a circuit breaker needs to be added. Is this true? I have a Lionel 1033 transformer.
A circuit breaker will protect the wires and the transformer. You need TVSs to protect the locomotive. See this post from last week.
http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/213466.aspx
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
There are some reasons to add circuit breakers to old transformers:
o The old transformer doesn't have a circuit breaker (the 1033 has one); or the circuit breaker has stopped working.
o The old transformer has multiple outputs (like the ZW or Z, unlike the 1033), that are not protected from being connected together.
o You want to be able to use lighter wire than is safe at the current rating of the transformer. (This would be about 20 AWG for the 1033--very light).
None of these would seem to apply to your situation.
On the other hand, modern locomotives are usually very vulnerable to excess voltage. So you should protect against that by attaching a transient-voltage suppressor (TVS) across the track voltage, between the transformer terminals, inside of the locomotive, or anywhere in-between.
Bob Nelson
I'm lacking in the wiring smarts world. What is a TVS? What does it do and how can I find one?
Brody
As I said, it is a transient voltage suppressor. It suppresses voltage transients, that is, it limits the voltage of a circuit to a specified value. Get a 1.5KE36CA from an electronics distributor, like Mouser or Digikey:
http://jp.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/15KE36CA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukgiigmf73gBTH3RUsfEE0
It will cost you about $.50.
Which place is best to put a TVS? I read it can go inside the locomotive or the transformer. I just want to make sure I get the maximum protection.
It doesn't much matter. If you put one inside your locomotive, it will be protected even when running on someone else's layout. If you put one on your transformer, other folk's locomotives will be protected when running on your layout. Since there is no harm in putting as many as you like on the same circuit, and because they are dirt cheap, you can have your cake and eat it too!
Another reason to add a manual breaker:
The circuit breakers inside all postwar Lionel transformers automatically reset themselves. Accidentally left unattended one could end up in a situation where the transformer's internal circuit breaker continuously cycled, while components in the path of the short circuit heat up. One person reported this situation on another board. In his case, there may have been some minor damage as a result.
The two external circuit breakers made by Lionel in the postwar era were both manual reset. One would need to check the specifications on other breakers.
Read this post to.
http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/213224/2338577.aspx#2338577
Here is what I have done On the left of the picture or the A-U side of the ZW, A TVS across the hot and common and a 10 AMP mini auto reset circuit breaker in the power feed to the lockOn buss bar, This breaker works fast enough to not let that small wire get hot at all and resets as soon as the short is corrected. My intent is protect the very small wire that Lionel provides with their Sound Activation Button I have to use for the bells to work on the Post War ZW. The breaker is made by Bussmann part # BP/CB211-10-RP. You can pick them up at any AutoZone for under $10.00 or on Amazon for around $5.00
Hope this helps.
Now that I have seen how well this works I will be adding more. This one was a test.
Do I need to do any of this wiring for a Williams locomotive with True Blast II?
guitarman1994 Do I need to do any of this wiring for a Williams locomotive with True Blast II? Brody
Brody. I don't have any Williams but I would say if it is modern and has any electronic boards, YES
Shipping from the Mouser site was 30 bucks, which isn't worth it for 5 bucks of TVS's. I found some bidirectional TVS's on Amazon, but they classify them as "VBR= 91.00V" or "VBR= 150.00 V." What does this mean and which one would work best? There are also 100.00V, 120.00V, and 130.00V. I tried doing research, but I couldn't find anything.
Those numbers are the voltage to which those devices will limit the track voltage. The numbers are much too high for toy trains.
guitarman1994 Shipping from the Mouser site was 30 bucks, which isn't worth it for 5 bucks of TVS's. Brody
Shipping from the Mouser site was 30 bucks, which isn't worth it for 5 bucks of TVS's.
Brody are you sure????????? I have got TVSs from them twice and I would never pay $30.00 for shipping. I can't find my last order but maybe just give them a call. Something is wrong with that.
I just tried again and it said "Shipping Charge: $30.00." I only have $4.80 worth of merchandise. Do you have some sort of membership discount?
Alright i got it figured out. Computer error.
guitarman1994 I just tried again and it said "Shipping Charge: $30.00." I only have $4.80 worth of merchandise. Do you have some sort of membership discount? Brody
So white size breaker would you use on a lionel Z 250 watt, using 16 gauge wire, and I am running primarily newer Williams engines?
Sixteen AWG can safely carry 10 amperes. I would add a breaker rated no higher than that to each output terminal (A, B, C, or D) that you are using, since the Z, like other earlier Lionel transformers, otherwise has no protection against a short circuit between the output terminals. I recommend auto-resetting thermal automotive breakers rather than faster types or fuses, to avoid nuisance tripping on harmless short-duration overloads. Don't depend on fast overcurrent devices to protect modern electronics. They need overvoltage protection. Use TVSs for that.
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