Pre/Post War Lionel...Found my hobby!!!

[Anonymous]

Well. I spent a few hours in the basement today,cleaning track and accessories off. Dad kept alot of stuff in a seperate box , and since he also did his woodworking down there as well, most was covered with a thin coat of sawdust.I believe it helped preserve. Got the bridge and coal elev. dusted off. Cant wait to try them out.

[Anonymous]

Took a trip to the library myself today. There are many books on this topic. Haven't got the book by Riddle yet, but will go online and reserve it tonight. Happened to see quite an extensive article in Modern Railroad about the yard in Janesville. Pretty cool. Also stopped by to see my locos today.He had the 1666 apart and said it was going to run like a champ. He said it would cost about $25.Just parts. He said his labor was free.Sounded fair to me since I would've been lost trying to do it myself.Good luck with your layout Dave.

[Dave Farquhar]

I can only hope for seven someday... :)

I think I found the inspiration I needed to tackle that bare 4x8 sheet. My girlfriend wanted to go to the library, and I went in kicking and screaming because they have a pretty good selection of Kalmbach and Greenberg books. I picked up the book Trains from Grandfather's Attic by Peter H. Riddle. I knew about that book but had never seen a copy. It's all about building prewar layouts. But one could just as easily build a simple traditional postwar-style layout using the same techniques, just using Plasticville and Marx/K-Line buildings.

I've got a fair bit of postwar Lionel, but since I'm more naturally drawn towards prewar, his approach is attractive to me at least for the short term. His suggestions for buildings were very, very affordable as well, which is good. Lets me save my money for trains.

[cnw1995]

I did just as Dave suggested. I started with just a train set on a 4 x 8 piece of foam board. I put it on a table with folding legs so I could slide it away out of sight when not in use. Now, a few years later - I have 7 of them semi-permanently on top of the crawlspace.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I will definely keep it simple.My wife says she's not going to allow a seperate room for just trains, so I guess small is good until I can win her over.

[Dave Farquhar]

My recommendation would be not to build one with all the bells and whistles at first because it's really easy to get in over your head. I see people do this at the local shop all the time. They try too much at once, get confused, and suddenly when nothing works they don't know where to start to try to fix it.

What I did was set up a loop of track around the Christmas tree (this was around Christmas). I took a week's vacation around Christmas, so during that week, I built a 4x5 layout because that was all I could build with the track and switches I had. Actually I had to buy another pair of switches to even do that.

Then, a couple of months later, I started on the 4x8s. I got more track and more switches and got started. And I'm still not much past the starting point. I've got track down and can run trains. And I've got a building here and there to make it look a little more interesting but I have a long way to go on the scenery. I'm going to keep it simple, a traditional toy train layout, but I don't even have my green mat down on one of the boards, and then I have to figure out how I'm going to make roads.

In the meantime, I keep buying up more cars and locomotives. But if there's one thing this hobby can offer, it's the challenge of always having something new to learn.

In the short term, if all you have time to do is a simple floor layout, don't sweat it. You don't have to have a magazine-quality layout to have fun. When the time comes to build something more complicated, get a hold of one of Peter H. Riddle's books on wiring. He does a great job of walking you through setting up a layout with operating accessories. And his setup lets you run three trains at once, almost independently. Very nice.

[Anonymous]

Yeah Dave, I really just wanted to get them to a point where they're in correct working order. I was a little timid about just starting to take a screwdriver to 'em to see how they ticked. And I also agree that I need to get some enjoyment out of them. I tried other things in the past, but quickly lost interest. It looks like I might have a little work to do before I can even think about building a layout with all the bells and whistles, but when I called the old man today, I got the impression that he was very relieved,that I intended on handing them down to a next generation. I told him that perhaps we could play with them again soon, and he seemed unusually giddy. It seems he had played with them quite a bit when he was a boy. I thought they were his younger brother's, but not the case.

[Dave Farquhar]

I take it as a good sign that he's going to show you how to do some repairs. It means he sees you as more than a fast buck. That's good. The dealer I took my dad's old locos to did the same thing for me. Now he keeps an eye out for fixer-uppers for me. I'm glad you've got a dealer like that around you.

I would expect a 2025 that's been sitting idle for a long time to be sluggish at first. Every loco that I've ever seen sit a long time has been sluggish for a while. They get better with time.

As far as paying for them to be fixed versus doing it yourself, it's better to take things a step at a time. Get them fixed right by someone who knows what he's doing, so you can take them home and run them. Putting together a layout to run them on is going to be plenty of work. You need to get some enjoyment in to keep you going. (I've been at this about 10 months, and I've got two 4x8 tables in my basement. One is still bare plywood. I'd like to be further along, but hey, at least I'm having fun.)

[Anonymous]

Took a jaunt to the hobby shop today. Brought both engines, switches and tenders. Talked with this guy for about 45 min. Would have been longer if I didn't have my 6 yr. old daughter with me.The guy was in his 70's and was very friendly. His face sort of lit up when he saw my interest in my new hobby.He seemed like an honest man, although I can be very gullible. I left all there so he could go over them. Hope this wasn't a mistake, but with my schedule I just want to get them running and go from there. He said he'd show me how to do some repairs and seemed genuinely happy to meet me. I know it means money to him, but its just my nature to give most people the benefit of the doubt. He did get the 2025 going, although a little sluggish. I did have a pretty goofy grin on my face, I'm sure. Will report more as it happens. Very,very cool!

[ben10ben]

Just to be on the safe side, put a couple of drops of model train smoke fluid down the stack before even giving them power. If you don't have any, you can use lamp oil, but ONLY use it this one time, and not on a regular basis. Some American Flyer operators use 3-in-1 oil, and I wouldn't think that it would be harmful to put a couple of drops of this down the smoke stack just once on this, either. For continued use, though, get some smoke pellets or smoke fluid.

By the way, this is only for your 2025, and not for your pre-war engine.

[Anonymous]

Assuming your transformer cord is in a safe condition, by all means give the old locos a try. Even if the old grease is rock hard a drop of light oil like 3 in 1 will reduce the chance of damage. A drop on each of the gears, especially on their shafts, and worked into all bearing surfaces by rotating the drivers by hand, will usually restore smooth operation. A stuck e-unit can be an irritation, but usually does no harm.

The smoke unit can be harmed or even burned out, if it is a liquid type, by not having fluid in it. That would be my chief worry while bringing an old loco back to life.

Get just the loco going at first and have someone handy to capture that big silly grin you will have on your face! Times like these are too good to lose.

Tony

[ben10ben]

The lever that you describe is probably the smoke lever. It should move back and forth pretty freely, though not too freely. It should be able to move all the way back to where it's resting against the cast cylinder. If not, the smoke unit is probably gummed up with pills, and will need to be taken apart.

I have a 675, which is identical to the 2025, and it is one of my favorites. Good luck with yours!

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that in the late 70's early 80's we tried to set it up and run it around xmas time, and the loco needed to have some work done on it. Thr problem,I fear, is that these thing were rarely played with. My father didnt even tell us about them until the mid 70's. The wheels do turn fairly freely. On the 2025, on the right side of the body,there is an arm, like a push rod, that came out of its housing. I was able to direct it back in, but is this suppose to be attached some how? I got up late today, and dont have time to play today, but am off tomorrow. Plan on making a day of it, including taking a trip to a place called Larry and Phyl's, a local train enthusiest hobby shop, and looking around.

[Dave Farquhar]

The problem is that old grease can take on the consistency of tar over a long period of disuse. When Dad got his Lionels out the first time around 1986 after they'd been sitting since the mid-1960s, one of them ran after a little coaxing and one of them didn't. He and I ran them heavily for a couple of years, then they went back into storage for about five years and he got them back out again in 1992 or so. At some point in the early 1990s he acquired another postwar engine. They got some activity for another couple of years until he died, and then they sat until 2003. When I got them out, one of the three engines ran pretty well, again, with a little bit of coaxing. One ran poorly (probably the one he got around 1992) and the third didn't run at all.

Because of the nature of the problem with the one that didn't run at all (stuck e-unit), I probably could have kept it powered up for hours without harming it. It would have done no harm, but without tearing the loco down there wasn't anything I could do to get it going either. The one that ran poorly had lubrication issues, so I probably would have damaged it. All told it cost me about $175 to get those two locos going again. $25 of it was to replace the smoke units with liquid units. Both locomotives had some missing parts, which was probably another $25. The rest was labor, at $25 an hour.

If the wheels turn fairly freely, you can probably try to run it (briefly) without damage. In all honesty, if it were me, I'd try it. Just be aware that the risk is turning a $25-$50 repair into a $100-$200 repair.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice. I'll check out that site tomorrow and let you know what happens. I'm assuming that I can do damage to the engine if I try to run it, and it needs service.
During the course of my night, I get stopped at a RR crossing on average of a 1/2 dozen times a night. I now have a new appreciation for even that inconvenience.

[choochin3]

[#welcome] Glad to have you here! And yes, I too am a train addict real or model![:P]

[Dave Farquhar]

Absolutely. Find enough curves to make a circle and a lockon. Get a couple of pieces of wire, and you've got everything you need. Check to make sure the power cord on the transformer isn't frayed or broken. If it isn't, proceed.

Make a circle out of the track. Splice in the switches to make it an oval. Insert enough extra track sections to close up the gap.

The lockon just clips onto the track. The terminals need to go on the outside of the loop.

Post A on the transformer goes to the position marked "1" on the lockon. Post U on the transformer goes to the position marked "2". Remember A1, U2. Steak sauce and a spyplane. (Or an Irish band, if you're a GenXer like me.)

The 1121 switches should have controllers with three wires that connect to three posts on the switches. The center wire attaches to the middle and the outside wires go to the outside posts.

When you plug in the transformer you should hear a slight hum.

Throw the switch controllers, and see what happens!

If you need help, this page might help you: http://www.thortrains.net/manual5.htm . Actually the whole thortrains.net site is good. You'll probably want to bookmark it.

If you're brave, get out a locomotive and run it, but it's probably better to get the locomotives serviced before you run them.

I'm a huge baseball fan too, so I know what you're talking about. But I'm a Royals fan... Come back George Brett!

[Anonymous]

Yes It is very addictive..I find my self spending more time with this than with following my Yankees...and thats saying something. I was wondering... Can I assemble a small layout of track and test these myself? After closer exam, my RW transformer appears to be in good shape(although I cant be sure)Is it relatively easy to hook up?

[Dave Farquhar]

Oh, hang on to those 1121 switches! They're the best all-around switches out there as far as what equipment can get through them. Prewar Lionel and Flyer has no problems with them, postwar Lionel has no problems with them, and Marx has minimal problems with them (Marx likes its own switches best, but generally does OK on 1121s).

[cnw1995]

Janesville! That where the C&NW line that I take into Chicago ends up - means we're practically neighbors. Depending on how wide a circle you'd draw around town - there are lots of events around our area. Email me at [e-mail]

[ChiefEagles]

[#welcome][#welcome] It is adictive. Glad you did not sell. You'll be hooked now. Keep us informed as it goes along.

[Anonymous]

Hey Doug;
I notice your from Crystal Lake. I'm in Janesville Wi. Let me know if there are any shows around. Went back down to the basement tonight, and found some more odds and ends rattlin' around in the bottom of a box full of track. I have a floodlite car missing the floodlite. found it along with some other pieces broken off from accessories. also another pair of 1121 switches. It looks like junk to anyone else, but I was pretty stoked about it.

[cnw1995]

Welcome. Isn't this hobby great? I got my dad's old pre-war trains and a few newer items - they'd be relatively recently repaired (in the 1980s) so it was more a matter of taking them to a professional to eyeball and lubricate. It's fun to explore their histories through CTT and this forum. Hope you can get them running soon.

[Dave Farquhar]

A Dremel (or another rotary tool) is something you'll find yourself using again and again. I also use it to clean rust off track pins, off the track itself, to cut track to odd lengths when I can't find one that's the length I need, and in a pinch I've even fashioned my own prewar-style tab-in-slot couplers (chances are your prewar used the later latch couplers though) out of K&S sheet metal and used a cut-off wheel to cut the slot.

Just be sure to use eye protection. I've had debris fly up and hit my goggles before. That's scary enough!

At around a hundred bucks, it's fooli***o buy a Dremel just to clean up $20 worth of track, but if you have other uses for it around the house--mine came with a lawnmower blade sharpener, for instance--you may be able to justify it.

A cheap alternative is to buy a wire wheel for a drill and use it. I wouldn't use it on something as small as car wheels, but it worked on track for me before I bought the Dremel.

[ben10ben]

If you have a dremel tool, put a fresh wire brush on it, and touch that to the wheels to clean them off. In a few seconds(or a minute or so if they're really bad), the wheels will be free of all the rust and crud on them from all these years, and will look pretty much like new. Be sure you get all of the wheel, though, and not just one specific spot.

[Anonymous]

This all sounds like great advice. With the bigger accessories, its mostly just a grimy film settled on parts I cant get to.The coal oper. is missing a roof( which I've found plenty of online) and the big scoop at the bottom. The bascule bridge is pretty much in tact, just dirty. It's also missing one of the power accessories and the cord needs work. I've noticed that most of the trucks are fine, its the wheels that are in need of attention. I like the idea of displaying them on old track. My daughter set one down and it tipped over as the front wheels were turned. I'm really looking forward to getting these things running.

[Dave Farquhar]

The safest way to clean old Lionel cars, especially the postwar, is with a soft paintbrush. Just bru***he dust away. For stubborn dirt, a little bit of water helps. But postwar paint is very fragile, so be very hesitant of using anything else. In some cases, water alone can wash away the paint.

Prewar paint is a bit more durable, but water can damage the decals.

If a grayish film has appeared on your postwar trucks, you can clean that up with an old soft-bristled toothbrush and some WD-40.

As far as making them runnable, all the cars are likely to need is a drop of light machine oil. In a pinch, WD-40 will work but something like 3-in-1 is better. On prewar, put the drop on the inside of the wheel where it meets the axle. On postwar, put it on the axle, in between the wheel and the side of the truck. After doing this, the wheels will turn more smoothly and your engines will be able to pull more.

I took my dad's postwar engines, when I rediscovered them last November, to a shop to be professionally serviced. They were missing some parts, and as others have noted, the old grease had taken the consistency of glue. Once they've been cleaned up, you can expect them to run essentially forever. The major parts that wear out are the roller pickups and the motor brushes, which are cheap and pretty easy to replace.

As far as track, if it's reasonably clean, go ahead and wipe it down with some rubbing alcohol, tighten the pins up, and use it. If the track has just a little bit of rust, it might be worth cleaning up, but if you find yourself spending an inordinate amount of time on it (it's really up to you to decide whether five minutes or 30 minutes is an inordinate amount of time), replace it. Some of my dad's old track still looked practically new, and some of it was rusted out. I tacked the track I couldn't/wouldn't clean up enough to use on the table onto boards to make display/storage shelves to hold cars and locomotives while they're not in use.

The most important thing, of course, is to make friends and have fun.

[Kooljock1]

That power cord is an easy replacement. It probably should be done anyway.

In spite of recent articles published on how to restore old rusty track, I'm a firm believer in buying new. It's just easier and more reliable. You'll hear a howl of protest now from those who try to enjoy the hobby "on the cheap". I don't buy $1800 engines, but neither do I spend three days cleaning and restoring a 60 year old piece of track to save $1.80. My time is worth more than that. But you will run into guys at shows who shop "under the tables" for boxes of junk to "get a deal", and then spend months on each piece, dumping twice it's value into new parts, only to end up with slightly restored junk.

You don't have junk. A #97 and a #313 is almost always worth restoring, providing that the Bakelite parts aren't too far gone.

As far as the engine and accessory restoration goes, find someone who is already deep into the hobby, and ask them for their recommendations. Hobby shops can be hit or miss. There are great ones, and horrible ones offering plenty of free bad advice.

Parts are cheap. Labor can be expensive. So make sure you're having a real pro with a good reputation do the work.

And finally, MAKE FRIENDS and HAVE FUN!

Jon [8D]

[Anonymous]

Glad to be here. These things are very cool. I've been to train shows and was always remotely interested, but had no means to invest. I think I have myself a nice little starter set. So far what I think I've been able to determine is thatthe pre-war items I have are...a 1666 stem loco with a 2666w whistle tender, a 2672 caboose,a 2680 sunoco tanker a 2620 flood light car, sans floodlight. I assume most of these are pre war as I havent been able to locate them in the greenberg book. I also have a second set with a 2025 engine. The tender with it is a 6646wx. Every entry in any guide I've seen has this with a different tender. I also have a set of 3 pullman cars, 2400-2402 in great shape. Yes I have a transformer. An RW 110 watt, but yes there is much damage to the cord. Also a 1041... I believe its a 60 watt I also have quite a few pieces of track. I'm hoping I can schlep most of this stuff to a hobby shop to see if it works.