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Whats left for MTH and Lionel to Produce?

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Whats left for MTH and Lionel to Produce?
Posted by wallyworld on Friday, August 19, 2011 9:09 AM

Some odds and ends came to mind..

Transfer cabooses, Whitcomb diesels, steeplecabs, operating steam pile drivers, the 1938 UP steam turbine ( pictured below at bottom)  Edwards motor cars, flangers, Osgood Bradley American Flyer coaches, contemporary light rail vehicles, drover's cabooses, and steam dummies come to mind..

:I wasn't pondering road names or color schemes, just what prototypes are  left. One of the things I miss about K Line was their willingness to expand the envelope beyond the usual suspects. The chromed trim on the 1938 UP prototype and the abundance of smoke...or a steam dummy going down Superstreets would be interesting visually, at least to me. Any other candidates? How about a gravity defying mountain climbing steam set ?

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Posted by Seayakbill on Friday, August 19, 2011 12:08 PM

MTH could do an O Gauge scale 44 tonner now that they have PS-3 that fits into HO locomotives.

Would like to see a Legacy or DCS O Gauge Northern Pacific Timken 4 Aces Northern. Lionel did one about a decade ago in conventional control.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, August 19, 2011 9:04 PM

Personally I'd like to see more electrics.  Particularly the P1a boxcab freight loco.  And of course, I'd like to see them at lower prices!

Becky

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Posted by 8ntruck on Friday, August 19, 2011 9:28 PM

What about some maintenance items - a rail grinding train, maybe a tie replacement/rail leveling consist?

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Posted by cheapclassics on Friday, August 19, 2011 9:38 PM

Lionel Ives transition cars of the 500/1770 series.

Mike C. from Indiana

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Friday, August 19, 2011 11:03 PM

A totally accurate versions of all the variations of the GM-EMD GMDD GP40-2 Diesel-Electric Locomotive.

The Wabash, Ann Arbor, DT&I, and CB&Q cabooses with offset steamlined cupolas.

86' Auto Parts box cars built by Thrall car and Pullman-Standard in the 1960's and 1970's

Modern era Trinity TrinCool Mechanical Refrigerator Cars.

Rapid-Discharge 5-Bay Hoppers with rotary couplers that are for coal hauling.

The GP30 Diesel Locos with ALCo FA trucks like used by GM&O, MILWAUKEE, SOO, plus ICG, WC.

Gondola models based exactly on the types of gondola built in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's.

HART ballast hoppers with distinct side discharge gates. 1970's era.

Andrew

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Friday, August 19, 2011 11:42 PM

Full O Scale super-detailed models of the original Thrall Car CENTERBEAM Center Partition 60' Flat Cars from the 1960's and 1970's.

Starting with the 5 original Thrall Car CENTERBEAM flat cars for the Northern Pacific built in 1968 and the next 5 for the Burlington Northern with the diamond shaped openings in the beam.  

Andrew

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:13 AM

Ribbed, High-Sided Wood Chip gondolas used by GN, NP, BN, MRL, CN, BCOL, CP for trains originating in the Rocky Mountain regions.

High-Sided, Five-Bay Wood Chip Hoppers used by Southern Railway, Seaboard Coast Line and other Southeastern railroads.

Andrew

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Posted by traindaddy1 on Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:40 AM

How about more Traditional-size short boxcars (like the old 6454 series) in more RR lines (other than  the usual PRR, NYC, Southern, Erie)?

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, August 20, 2011 8:19 AM

A chopped-nose GP-7 or GP-9 would be great.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:51 AM

Lionel has never made and released their O Gauge Articulated Flat Cars as actual Multiple Unit Flat Cars in these railroad paint schemes to the general public as cataloged items.

ATSF Santa Fe 6-Units

BN Burlington Northern 5-units

CR Conrail 5-units

SSW Cotton Belt 4-units

UTTX Trailer Train 5-units

UTTX not TTUX.

 

Full O Scale EMD GP9 Locomotive with Low nose, with and without dynamic brake blisters on long hood depending on the real unit represented. 

O Scale or Traditional O gauge proportioned model of the North American Car Company Cylindirical Pressure-Differential Covered Hoppers called the Pd 3000 and Pd 5000.

Traditional O Gauge proportioned models of these distinct modern covered hoppers at a lower price than the super-detailed O Scale models:

 ACF Center Flow 4600 Cu. Ft. Capy. 3-Bay Hopper

Trinity Railcar 3-Bay Covered Hopper.

Andrew

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Posted by Seayakbill on Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:26 AM

A out of scale small GP type diesel to go with the short 6454 size boxcars and other small 027 cars.

I think RMT may have cornered that market with their Beeps.

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Posted by DMUinCT on Sunday, August 21, 2011 8:47 AM

When we were "kids" Lionel, American Flyer, and Mark sold train sets that looked like what we were watching down at the railroad station.  The engins and cars were scaled down versions of the courant trains.

Today they produce models of trains from the past for us "old timers". 

  Lionel, go down to the nearest railroad, market models of those trains to a younger market.   Build the market.

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Posted by wallyworld on Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:34 AM

DMUinCT

When we were "kids" Lionel, American Flyer, and Mark sold train sets that looked like what we were watching down at the railroad station.  The engins and cars were scaled down versions of the courant trains.

Today they produce models of trains from the past for us "old timers". 

  Lionel, go down to the nearest railroad, market models of those trains to a younger market.   Build the market.

I think you have a interesting point to make and it may translate into bringing more kids into the hobby, but I think it's the kinetics of steam that keeps it on model tracks long after it vanished on the prototype..The whirling reciprocating rods, the smoke, the bells, the firebox glow..and then comparing that to what is essentially an oblong box with a smaller box in the front as found in a diesel, well..I can see why colorful paint schemes, sound systems, and yes, smoke..add to the appeal of diesels..I think the kinetics of Alco and Baldwins with their distinct signatures also keep old prototypes popular. I think railroading today reminds me more of trucks on rails..all of this is highly subjective on my part..but I have to ask if it is more than nostalgia that keeps old prototypes alive and well in O scale...?

I suppose I am inferring that on a contemporary basis, that modern railroading in terms of equipment just lacks the same appeal to the senses that the older types do. Although when a tag team of diesels come up to the crossing there is that sheer sense of power, but it may not translate in a toy. I could very well be wrong but it seems this way.

Of course you look at the prototypes on this "wish list" and more than a few are diesels, not that the thread is representative of market demands  in any scientific sense. It must be a tough decision to determine what will sell, and perhaps this is why safe bets like PRR and NYC dominate the small range of choices. I would love to see MTH and or Lionel do a simple poll that asks what do you want? Modern diesels, old diesels electrics or steam? I could never figure out how they chose what they chose to produce with a lack of direct input.

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Posted by wallyworld on Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:34 AM

DMUinCT

When we were "kids" Lionel, American Flyer, and Mark sold train sets that looked like what we were watching down at the railroad station.  The engins and cars were scaled down versions of the courant trains.

Today they produce models of trains from the past for us "old timers". 

  Lionel, go down to the nearest railroad, market models of those trains to a younger market.   Build the market.

I think you have a interesting point to make and it may translate into bringing more kids into the hobby, but I think it's the kinetics of steam that keeps it on model tracks long after it vanished on the prototype..The whirling reciprocating rods, the smoke, the bells, the firebox glow..and then comparing that to what is essentially an oblong box with a smaller box in the front as found in a diesel, well..I can see why colorful paint schemes, sound systems, and yes, smoke..add to the appeal of diesels..I think the kinetics of Alco and Baldwins with their distinct signatures also keep old prototypes popular. I think railroading today reminds me more of trucks on rails..all of this is highly subjective on my part..but I have to ask if it is more than nostalgia that keeps old prototypes alive and well in O scale...? I suppose I am inferring that on a contemporary basis, that modern railroading in terms of equipment just lacks the same appeal to the senses that the older types do. Although when a tag team of diesels come up to the crossing there is that sheer sense of power, but it may not translate in a toy. I could very well be wrong but it seems this way.

How about a Baltimore and Ohio Duplex Drive? Quite a tender..I suppose that knocks a O-27 curvature out of the running.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Sunday, August 21, 2011 3:46 PM

Starter set, traditionally sized versions of modern High-Cube 50' and 60' Plug-Door Boxcars that cost half of the O Scale versions. Example of these modern boxcars are the TTX FBOX 50' Plug-Door Boxcars and TTX TBOX 60' Plug-Door Boxcars.

 

Looking through the 1977 book The Freight Train Book by Jack Pierce and found these 1970's paint schemes missed by Lionel:ahd MTH

SCL Seaboard Coast Line Waffle-Side Box Car

Route Rock “Lionel Traditional” Double-Door Box car

BN Burlington Northern “Lionel Traditional” Double-Door Box car

 

SOUTHERN PACIFIC AUTO-PAC Auto Carrier

SP 513101

Like the MTH Railking Auto Carrier

 

O Scale SOO LINE 40’ Box cars in the 1960's and 1970's brown and white scheme.

 

Andrew

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:52 PM

wallyworld

I would love to see MTH and or Lionel do a simple poll that asks what do you want? Modern diesels, old diesels electrics or steam? I could never figure out how they chose what they chose to produce with a lack of direct input.

I don't know wether or not they still do, but MTH at least used to have that on their warranty cards.  I remember filling them out with every tinplate number I could remember and then using another another card when I remembered some more!  Laugh

I've also sent emails asking them to produce items but I never got any response.  One suggestion was for the Tinplate line.  I asked why they didn't bring back lower priced starter sets with 110 freight or 35 passenger cars pulled by electrics like the #33.  Granted they've done sets with the 10 and 384, but they're still a bit too far out of my price range.  I would guess that 33 style engines would be very cheap to produce, especially if they left out all the electronics.  It would have been just what it was for Lionel in the nineteen-teens: a low priced introduction to the world of standard gauge.

In that same vein, I suggested "plasticplate" standard gauge trains.  Injection molded ABS versions of the expensive locos like the 392, 408 and 400E.  Brass, copper and nickel trim looks just as good on a painted plastic body as it does on enameled steel.  I know, I've done it!  Big Smile  So why not open a new niche of the market with lower priced sets?  A plastic 392 pulling plastic Stephen Gerard cars would look much nicer around the family tree than most of the crappy trains produced and sold as "Christmas trains" nowadays.  I mean really, couldn't Lionel and/or MTH outdo New Bright in this category and price range?

Becky

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2011 8:37 AM

I'm STILL waiting for Lionel to do the C&O Yellowbelly Hudson with Legacy. STILL waiting... STILL waiting...

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Posted by Seayakbill on Monday, August 22, 2011 3:34 PM

 I suggested "plasticplate" standard gauge trains.

Becky,  During the 2009 Holiday Season Lionel tried a Plastic G Gauge Polar Express Set and Pennsy Freight set selling through Wal-Mart and that went over like a lead filled balloon. Wal-Mart sent a ton of them back to Lionel and they eventually ended up being blown out by discounters such as Big Lots and Ollies.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, August 22, 2011 8:20 PM

True.  But those are just odd sized large scale trains made by scientific toys.

What I'm talking about is using what would normally be a casting or stamping on a tinplate engine like the 392E and making those parts out of ABS plastic instead.  They would be cheaper to produce and less labor intensive (I would imagine) than tinplate versions.  You would still have painting and assembly to worry about, but not as much if many of your previously hand applied details are now cast-in.  That part is nothing new.  What would be new is translating it over to Standard Gauge.

The Polar Express, Hogwarts Express and subsequent freight trains that have come out using the PE "berk" for motive power are nice.  At least in my eyes they're a lot nicer than many of the so called "Christmas trains" that have flooded the market since the mid 80's.  But in my eyes tinplate outshines them all when it comes to around the tree layouts.  And BIG tinplate is really cool!  Smile, Wink & Grin  It's my favorite kind of bling!  Laugh  This would just be a way of getting it into more hands by it's reduced pricing.  And that could translate to an expansion of the line from collector's item to child's plaything, which is good for all concerned!  Big Smile

Becky

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Posted by wallyworld on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:54 AM

Penny Trains

True.  But those are just odd sized large scale trains made by scientific toys.

What I'm talking about is using what would normally be a casting or stamping on a tinplate engine like the 392E and making those parts out of ABS plastic instead.  They would be cheaper to produce and less labor intensive (I would imagine) than tinplate versions.  You would still have painting and assembly to worry about, but not as much if many of your previously hand applied details are now cast-in.  That part is nothing new.  What would be new is translating it over to Standard Gauge.

The Polar Express, Hogwarts Express and subsequent freight trains that have come out using the PE "berk" for motive power are nice.  At least in my eyes they're a lot nicer than many of the so called "Christmas trains" that have flooded the market since the mid 80's.  But in my eyes tinplate outshines them all when it comes to around the tree layouts.  And BIG tinplate is really cool!  Smile, Wink & Grin  It's my favorite kind of bling!  Laugh  This would just be a way of getting it into more hands by it's reduced pricing.  And that could translate to an expansion of the line from collector's item to child's plaything, which is good for all concerned!  Big Smile

Becky

I was on another forum and the topic of electronics was a hot button issue for those who buy contemporary trains. One fellow had a photo posted of a huge pile of electronic boards he pulled out to run conventional. Another was complaints about crew talk and station sounds being an added feature that they do not want that add to the overall cost. When I look at conventional models and full electronic versions the add on costs seems to be $100.00-150 or so. Another issue I wondered about are cast bodies versus plastic, which does not seem to be a significant cost add on in of itself. You add up these features one by one or for that matter subtract them to a bare minimum like Williams you are at around $500.00. per engine. So then, I am thinking, what is a reasonable cost for motive power in this day and age? 

I think that at least for now, despite the aforementioned complaints about add ons and cost, these expensive trains are selling because customers want them. So..I don't see this situation changing and how intractable it is may be measured by how terrible the economy is doing and the rising cost of toy trains, yet folks buy them. There does not seem to be an incentive from the market to make toy trains more affordable at this point. I think too, there is a mindset of who will be the first ( in their minds) to "cheapen the brand"..The only thing that seems to be somewhat "backfiring" is the finicky nature of electronics and quality control, and the emphasis on warranty issue, service etc on a $1,500.00 engine which seems to be a growing backlash of frustration.Another is the present and future of the availability of electronic parts ( boards).

For now, restoration or modifying trains from ebay seems to be a trend, as well as interest in Marx as an affordable alternative to maxing out credit cards..( which I have read a lot of posts on). The Marx will easily run another 50-60 years. On the other side I have read several posts where a delivery date is sped up and the preorder is a sudden economic crisis.when the bill comes due. Is there a toy train economic bubble on the horizon?. Even the editor of a certain other magazine seems tapped out with credit cards.

Time will tell.as I think the market makes the decisions as far as toy trains are concerned.

 

 

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 7:13 PM

One bubble that doesn't look like it will burst any time soon is the "Thomas bubble".  As long as Thomas continues, trains will have some relevancy in kids lives.  I have one second cousin that just started liking trains in recent years.  I think he's around 10.  Another 2nd cuz has liked trains from almost birth.  I custom restored a Marx clockwork set for him 2 years ago, good gift for a 3 year old!  Smile, Wink & Grin  While I'm sure both kids know about Thomas, wether or not they started liking trains because of that show or not isn't obvious.

Becky

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Posted by Major on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 7:46 PM

It is apparent that most of the responses have come from the O scale community.  When it comes to S scale there is a whole lot of locomotives and cars that Lionel or MTH could produce. Lionel has in my opinion greatly expanded it's S scale offerings but S scale has no where the amount of products available as O,  nor does it have a variety of starter sets to attract new modelers.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:58 PM

It would work to have long 60' to 89'  freight cars made in 1/64th scale, then use truck adapters to run them with traditional O Gauge freight cars. The freight cars from the post 1960 era that have been too big and too expensive for most O Gauge operators would be chosen.  

Andrew Falconer

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Posted by Blake on Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:48 PM

Lionel and MTH both need to make more 19th century locomotives, MTH already made the General and a 4-6-0 and lionel only has the General, i would like Lionel to make 19th century 4-6-0.

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