TMCC designer leaves Lionel ??

[Anonymous]

If certain posters know all the facts, how come they have to make corrections to their post so often[?] Let's face it, almost NOBODY knows the all the FACTS. Even an expert like me. [:D]

[Anonymous]

My post was not directed towards anyone. It does seem that some things sound negative or can be taken the worng way. I found the string a little later on in the posting, but we should be nice to each other. Smiles are free!! [:D]

[Anonymous]

I read a while back on a string how one member was starting trouble and had a history. Someone let everyone know of the person's reputation. All of the members on that string ignored what he said. Everyone ignored him beacuse of his reputation. He stopped acting that way when he saw he was being ignored. Why stoop to someonelse's level?

Old Saying:
If you step on every stone you'll never make it home.

[Anonymous]

Guys,

Please relax about all this. Email is a difficult medium sometimes, and we all write things from time to time that turn out to have a tone to them that was never intended.

I saw Lou K. last Thursday evening at the LCCA convention. Whatever his arrangement was with Lionel, it has run its course. Had I known this was a hot topic, I would have asked him specifics. Lou and his wife were at the convention with the guys from the Chicagoland Lionel Club, which was set up at the convention and ran the train "drag races."

Neil Besougloff
editor, Classic Toy Trains

[eZAK]

Here is my Two cents, wether you like it or not.

I find it odd how people interpet emotions, meanings, & expressions from the writen word.

This is NOT a group of guys sitting around discussing trains.
This IS a group of guys hidding in the shadows passing anonymous secret notes around.

"strange days indeed, .... most precular moma...."

[Anonymous]

Well, I see that Melvin locked the thread on the OGR forum which is his typical censorship, especially when it comes to "offending" his advertisers. Neil, what you're saying is right on!!!!! Allan Miller is just being his usual pompus self, don't pay any attention to him.

[Anonymous]

My only contribution to this topic is to just point out the obvious & what we all should already know:

It's extremely easy to read a tone into a posting that the author did not intend it to have. And that's certainly what happened in this thread.

That said, everyone get out your Nerf bat & start hitting each other. That should lower the tensions [;)] [:D]

Tony

[nblum]

The people beating on me on the OGRR Forum have agendas of their own, which I won't trouble you with. They don't worry me in the least. They have their opinions and I have mine. No amount of personal abuse or character assassination will deter me from expressing my opinions in a civil and frank manner. I hope you would do the same.

Nothing would bother me more than others not feeling free to express their opinions because of fear of my response. So I apologize if my tone or comments had that effect on you. Nonetheless, what I am doing is sharing my knowledge and information, which you are endorsing, no?

[Anonymous]

to nblum....

You bash me as saying this was "my forum". I never said that. As a matter of fact you bashed a lot of people here and accused them of saying things that they never said like Spanky and others. I know that what I write is seen by everyone and I try to get along with everyone. I DON'T try to come off as a know it all or high handed and an authority on everything here. I just post my views and ask questions so I can LEARN. I think that a lot of people here just want to LEARN and not get beat down for saying something. I don't want to see anybody lose their job. I don't want to see any train company go out of business. I just want to know things about the trains. I work for a living and know what it's like to need money to live. I don't have jillions to spent on trains or anything else. I do
think you should take it easyand let people talk. It looks like your pals over on the OGR forum are even beating on you for your attitude towards others.

Any way, enough flaming, I wanted to thank the other people here for at least being nice enough to let me post and say my piece. That's the way it should work.

BTW......It's CTT's forum ..... Not anyone else's. Thanks CTT.

[ChiefEagles]

Thanks Neil. Update us when you can speak without breaking confindences.

[nblum]

Someone I trust has confirmed for me that Lou Kovach is no longer working at Lionel. That does not mean he will not be working in the field of toy train electronics, nor does it mean he will be working for one of Lionel's competitors. In time, it will be clear who he is working with and on what. Sorry to be mysterious but I am sworn to secrecy on the details :). Based upon prior performance, everyone will be happy with the final products that come out, is my guess.

[Anonymous]

garyseven, you crack me up!

[garyseven]

Although I rarely agree with him, I have really no problems with Neil or his posts.
1) He speaks his mind and sticks to his story
2) I think he really believes what he writes and writes what he believes
3) He has a vast knowlege of his subjects (Usually Lionel and TMCC)
4) Although he structures his arguments to. shall we say, lean a certain direction, I don't think he has ever created any facts to support his point of view
5) He's consistant informative and entertaining - just keep a nerf bat handy to beat the computer monitor when neccessary. ;)

So, like he needs help or support from this big dumb guy who plays with trains - there it is.

Now did anyone hear that Lou Kovach is no longer working at Lionel?!?

[3railguy]

QUOTE: And I'll add that I have no agenda, I like Lionel as well as K-Line and MTH. After all, my Santa Fe TMCC crane is one of my favorite pieces of equipment in which Lionel surely subcontracted MTH to build;)

Rod, LOL. The only Lionel cranes MTH has made are the Lionel cranes that MTH copied.

[Anonymous]

No disrespect was intended to Neil. In person I'm sure everyone is 100% more genuine than is perceive on this teletype communications gadgetry.

And I'll add that I have no agenda, I like Lionel as well as K-Line and MTH. After all, my Santa Fe TMCC crane is one of my favorite pieces of equipment in which Lionel surely subcontracted MTH to build;)

Now, if I just had that K-Line cruise for my new K-Line Allegheny.

[nblum]

"Like you said, you’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine."

Indeed.

[3railguy]

Neil Dangerfield just gets no respect.

[Anonymous]

Gosh Neil, I wasn't being Zealous about anything (train manufacturer related), just pointing out an appearance, as it appears to me. I surely cannot be wrong about how I perceive things to be (after all they are my perceptions), I may be wrong about the way things are, but never the way I perceive them.

BTW, I feel MTH has done more for the hobby since 1994 than Lionel (yeah, I think DCS is a single technical advancement that far surpasses those thumbtackless couplers, wireless tethers, and Rail sounds). But I’d bet you’d refute that too, and that’s OK by me. Like you said, you’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine.

[nblum]

Not that I care, but you're wrong.

My loyalty and passion in life extend to myself and my family, my community, my country, my species and the hobby, in that order. I often prefer Lionel trains for sentimental and technologic reasons, but I own equipment from literally every current manufacturer and enjoy them all.

On the other hand, perhaps when I seem to you and some others like a zealous brand loyalist it is usually, in my view, because I am responding to equally zealous opinions or misinformation generated by those who have different preferences and seek to denigrate my own.

There are also those who wi***o reshape the hobby and industry as it now exists, and there are those who zealously support them. These changes would not serve my best interests, or, in my opinion, the hobby's. Thus I'm merely sticking up for my own interests and those who share my opinions.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: I know Neil's writing. He doesn't come off as an authority (at least to me). He just has a habit of bringing overzealous brand loyalists down to earth.

To me, Neil comes off as just "another" overzealous brand loyalist needing to get his two cents worth in, when it comes to defending Lionel. Not that I care, it's just how it appears to me.

[ChiefEagles]

Not going to argue which is best. I plan on running both but DCS is more forgiving than some say. I am running it in a spare room on carpet. It shows a track signal of 10 on three loops [connected by various swtiches]. No fancy lockons and no fancy wiring. Ran conventional on it the other day and those engines would slow in spots where the PS2's did not and performed great. Had to add lockons to get the conventionals to run good. My point: DCS is more forgiving than conventional. I'm sure when I add TMCC, it will be too. [it is easier to add TMCC to DCS than "vise a versa"]

[3railguy]

Well, spanky, I guess accusing a guy of getting his shorts in a wad is not an attack but more of a thanks.

Pease, posting on a forum is different than people talking to each other. You're talking to everybody when you post. I know Neil's writing. He doesn't come off as an authority (at least to me). He just has a habit of bringing overzealous brand loyalists down to earth.

[spankybird]

Nblum, you make is sound as if you need many TUI to run a layout. I have two layouts, one is 10 x 20 and the other is 5 x 8 and both are run on one TIU. You would need a really large layout to require more than one TIU.

Here are the track plans for both of my layouts, with only one TIU.

and


When I installed DCS, I did not have to rewire anything. It was just add the TIU between the transformer and the track leads. Oh, and add a circuit breaker box because of using a ZW.

[nblum]

I'm not crazy about your attitude either. Don't expect me to apologize for intruding into what you seem to consider "your" forum. :)

The reality is that when you put your opinions here on a public forum they have the potential to affect other people's livelihoods and happiness, so if you're woefully mistaken about something, don't expect it to go uncorrected. Some of us consider the truth an important issue, not just an optional part of a conversation. This isn't just a few friends talking in private, it's an international public space. I have as much right to my opinions, goals and attitudes as you do. If you don't like my approach or tone, I'm sorry to hear that, but just don't read what I have to say. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

[Anonymous]

It's not the information...It's the attitude! No one on either forum claimed to know it all or have any inside information. All people were doing is talking. NBlum decided that the rest of us were utrterly ignorant and decided to come on as an autority on this subject as he does on other subjects. It's a shame that grown adults can't get along and just talk without having everything interpreted for them. That's why the world is in the condition it is today. Maybe I don't want my future children to be in this hobby after all. I'll just leave everything to the rich know it alls. Maybe they'l be happy then.

[nblum]

My comments refer to the fact that in the past you have posted any number of disparaging comments about Lionel and quoted as a source the dealers you knew in your home area. I was cautioning that these folks are either misinformed or have an axe to grind (i.e., they want to sell MTH trains rather than Lionel trains). A not uncommon problem . There are certainly Lionel dealers who will do the same sort of thing. That's the world we live in.

[spankybird]

3rialguy,

I have no problem with nblum setting the facts straight on who did what. In fact I am thankful for the history lesson.

As for whom was attacking whom, first remember I didn’t make the statement that he first attacked me.

Second he continued with a false statement

QUOTE: but you seem to have a lot of sources of information that are interested in making Lionel look as bad as possible. They are misleading you…

. I didn’t say anything bad about Lionel.

[nblum]

Spankybird, I was referring to the quality of the sounds of Railsounds, particularly the horns, whistles and bells. This has more to do with speaker enclosure design than electronics, admittedly. There are those who like the additional variety of sounds (passenger and freight announcements, etc.) that PS2 offers, and expanding the memory capabilities of Railsounds to include these is what I was referring to. There is no question that PS2 has more features and variety of sounds than Railsounds and TMCC. The acoustic quality of Railsounds are, in most cases, still notably superior and this is most important to me. Your mileage may vary :).

As far as cost, DCS is only $150 to $200 more expensive to begin with, but for larger layouts one requires additional TIUs, not necessary with TMCC. Also, additional DCS handhelds, with most people wanting more than one, are $75 more expensive. Finally, a whole lot more wire and terminals are used in any medium to large size layout, and other items like lightbulbs, soldered connections are sometimes required with DCS but not TMCC. While it is true you can use the DCS handheld to control a TMCC loco and cannot do so with a PS2 locos and cab-1, this is because Lionel has made the codes for TMCC publicly available, something MTH has refused to do. In any case, you need a command base and cab-1 to really use TMCC with DCS, just like you need a TIU and DCS handheld to really use PS2 if you have TMCC. It's true that it's alot cheaper to add TMCC capability to DCS than vice versa. The one strength of the MTH line is that PS2 is present, as you say, in a wider range of cost niches than TMCC. That is a weakness Lionel should fix, I agree. That's the cost issue to me in a nutshell.

[3railguy]

Spankybird, I now see your point on the MTJ tittle. Other than that, I don't recall reading on other forums such as OGR that Kovak designed TMCC. All Neil did was set the record straight as to the info you got and you attacked him. So have others.

This quote by Neil was not aimed specifically at you.

QUOTE: Anyone who has credited him with TMCC "as it is known today" is unfamiliar with the origins and history of TMCC.