I am new and confused. I am trying a KW transformer. Normal wiring puts power to the 3 rail 0 guage track. Applying power speeds up the train but not enough power to operate the switches.
Can anyone help explain what I have to do?
Trapper
Welcome to the forum. Great group of knowledgeable guys here. One way or another someone will be able to help with any questions you may have.
If they are Lionel O tubular switches and I presume they are. You can use the fixed voltage tap on the side of the switch to provide a constant voltage instead of the varying track voltage. As far as the KW goes I'm not familiar with that particular model. There should be either a fixed voltage output or a second throttle handle you can us to provide the constant power to the switches. Someone who can help with the KW issue will be along soon. If you have any more questions just ask.
Jason
B&O = Best & Only
Jason, the KW has two variable outputs that go up to 20 volts and a fixed 20-volt output that may be used for turnouts, although that is a little high.
Whether or not he can easily power his turnouts from an accessory voltage very much depends on what kind he has. So we need to know the model number of the turnouts.
Bob Nelson
I'll jump on this thread because my issues are closely related.
My (Lionel 022+ one #711) switches are powered by a 1033 Lionel transformer using the 16V A - C tap.
They are wired to the constant voltage plugs using 4 conductor telephone wire, which is probably 22 or 24 gage.
My problem is (1) that the more distant switches (8+ feet away) are weak in their throwing action; and (2) I am planning to wire up 7 additional switches 15 to 20 feet away.
Do I need more voltage, or just heavier wire? Perhaps I could double up the telephone wire?
Additionally, is the phone wire adequate for the switch controllers, even if not for the constant voltrage?
My alternative is single strand 14 gage, which seems like overkill.
Thanks,
runtime
It's the wire. The coil resistance is only a few ohms; so you need wire whose resistance is well under an ohm. At 8 feet, you have about 400 milliohms of resistance in the combination of the constant-voltage wire and the controller (600 milliohms if you connect the controller common wire at the turnout rather than the transformer), assuming 24 AWG, which is very likely for modern telephone cable. The amount of energy carried is very small because the coil is switched off quickly; but the instantaneous power is high.
If you double all the wires, controller wires and constant-voltage wire, you should be able to get the same performance at 16 feet that you now have at 8 feet, which I gather is satisfactory. Both contstant-voltage and controller wires contribute resistance to the circuit in the same way. You could improve things significantly by replacing just the constant-voltage wire with the 14 AWG (and get your controller common at the transformer if you're not doing that already). That would drop the resistance to 25 milliohms per foot. So 20 feet of 24 AWG for the controllers would be only half an ohm, which might do the trick.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I ran about 12 -14ft of 14 AWG wire from the 1033 transformer to the constant voltage plug of a 711 turnout, and bridged it to an adjacent 022 turnout which in turn was bridged to several other 022s 3 to 4 feet away, which are all wired with phone wire (22-24 AWG) back to the same transformer. I also further daisy chained forward from the 711s plug to two additional 022s using 18 AWG (it was handy) spanning perhaps 3-4 ft.
Unfortunate non of these turnouts throw decisively. Whereas another four turnouts which are 1 to 2 feet from the transformer work flawlessly, and are wired with phone wire.
Turnout switching performance still seems directly proportional to distance, in spite of the wiring upgrade. I am testing all the turnouts by bridging their terminals at the turnout, so controller wiring is not involved.
Is 16 V really enough? ?????
Many of my turnouts have had their lamp wiring modified (my my Dad, long ago) so that the lamps are seperately powered by only 5 V. This eliminates lamp housing meltdown issues associated with putting more voltage to the switches. Presumably I could figure out how to modify the additional switches I purchased fand installed for seperate lamp powering if more switch voltage is the answer.
Another possibility of course is that, by sheer coincidence all the more distant switches need some kind of mechanical or electrical overhaul....which would mean I would have to disassemble the layout quite extensively. My own fault it it comes to this, since I didn't think to test the switches before installing.
Looking forward to input on there perplexing issues,
You may have something there in your last paragraph. I would make up a pair of 14 AWG wires that can reach all the turnouts and then use them to connect a single transformer to each turnout, one at a time, one wire to the common terminal, the other to the fixed-voltage plug. That way, you can see how each one performs under exactly the same conditions; and we can either confirm or rule out individual turnout differences as the root of the problem.
Well, I didn't exactly follow your suggestions, but I did run a 14 AWG common directly from the 1033 transformer to the center terminal of one of the poorly performing switches on the far side of the layout.
I also daisy chained the common from that switch to three more switches.
Results: two if the four switches now throw and lock decisively, which they did not do before. The other two must have some other mechanical or electrical issues. I suppose I will have to remove them from the layout and follow the guidelines of that recent thread (about a month ago?) on switch overhaul. A big job I am not looking forward to.
Interestingly, three other nearby switches which were throwing weakly, but to which I did not run common post wires, are also much improved in their action. Apparently my track common in that part of the layout was weak.
I still need to run power (and probably common) to four other as yet unpowered swithces to see how they perform.
runtime Well, I didn't exactly follow your suggestions, but I did run a 14 AWG common directly from the 1033 transformer to the center terminal of one of the poorly performing switches on the far side of the layout. I also daisy chained the common from that switch to three more switches. Results: two if the four switches now throw and lock decisively, which they did not do before. The other two must have some other mechanical or electrical issues. I suppose I will have to remove them from the layout and follow the guidelines of that recent thread (about a month ago?) on switch overhaul. A big job I am not looking forward to. Interestingly, three other nearby switches which were throwing weakly, but to which I did not run common post wires, are also much improved in their action. Apparently my track common in that part of the layout was weak.
This speaks to something I've been kicking around lately. I'll have about 20 022 switches distributed throughout the new layout. I'll be running 2-conductor wire between the controllers and switches, tapping off a common bus by the controller rather than running a third conductor back from the switch.
I'm thinking that instead of connecting the common for the track circuit(s) directly to the track, use those handy (and now unused) center terminals on the switches. Seems to me that it would be easier to run jumpers up from the common bus and clamp them down with the nut than to worry about attaching them to a rail. And since there will never more than about 10 lengths of track between switches, that should create a solid common throughout.
Am I missing something here?
It's my understanding that the common (center) terminal on 022 switches has continuity to the outside track rails, therefore I believe your thinking is correct. I'm sure others will confirm or refute this.
I am currently using a KW and the 20V tap works great, however the switches do really snap and the bulb covers tend to come loose. You also need to change the 12V light bulbs. The bulbs will get really hot. Radio Shack used to stock 18V.
I just purchased a TW on EBAY and hope to try the switches on the 18V tap and see how that works.
Bob Patzwald
The common terminals of turnouts are a reasonable way to get access to the outside rails.
Be careful in swapping lamps. There aren't many 18-volt lamp types; and the ones folks often find are the 432, 433, 1445, and 1447. These are hotter at any voltage than the 52 and 53 lamps. The 432 puts out 2.21 times as much heat as the 52, and the 433 1.84 times as much as the 53. The 1445 puts out 1.35 times as much heat as the 52, and the 1447 1.125 times as much as the 53.
FYI, the packages for the Radio Shack lamps which are recommended for use in the 022 are marked with the standard designators in addition to the RS part #. Specifically, RS 272-1117 (bayonet base) is marked as "53", and the 272-1127 (screw base) is marked as "52". That should make them a little easier to find.
If you go hunting for these, be aware that they're with the flashlight bulbs, 14.4V.
I must be the epitome of the old saying........better luck and good. I read about the switch in a train magazine and went out and purchased some. That was several years ago but the bulbs work great. They are not as bright and not as hot. I do remember the purchase was at Radio Shack so they may have known what I was hunting for.
I am considering going to LED's just to cut down on amperage draw. Any thoughts on that one?
I shouldn't type early in the morning! It should have read, "better lucky than good". My bad.
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