My Christmas Layout is unbelievably loud

[SleeperN06]

I just received the Lionel Hogwarts Express to add to my Christmas layout. I know it’s a little weird, but I got an incredible price that I could not turn down.

Anyway now I have three trains all running at once and the noise level is so loud that I’m now worried about destroying my grandkids ears. I have seen quite a few photos of O-scale layouts running more trains than I have and I was wondering how you do it. Do I issue ear protection at the door as people come in?   I just wounder what the Decibel Level is.

It’s a little late to change anything on the layout with Christmas just right around the corner, but I need to do something for next year..

[dwiemer]

A few thoughts on this.  If you are using Fastrack (the rails with the plastic roadbed), it is loud, but can be managed.  If you have it directly on plywood, that too will make it louder.  Most folks try to either use the extruded foam (dense foam used for insulation on houses), or soundstop (a fiber material), both can be found at home improvement centers.

You can also have some tunnels that you place some foam (like couch cushion type) along the walls to deaden the noise.  Tapestries and heavy curtains too will absorb some noise.  Lots of things to try, but for the most part, you are still going to have to deal with some level of noise.  I think the all plastic cars as are on the Hogwarts Express will have some level of noise too.

Dennis

[fifedog]

If you haven't secured the track down on the layout, try drilling some screws to "tack" it down.  Should muffle the noise some.

Kids dig noise, so don't sweat it too much.

[SleeperN06]

Thanks for replying. You mentioned heavy drapes and the one thing I did do was remove the drapes completely for the Christmas layout because they were in the way of the layout and I wanted the tree to be seen from the street. Maybe that wasn’t such a good idea after all. It’s too late to add the foam insulation board for this year anyway, but I might have to try it for next year.

Back when I just had one train I had a sheet of ¾” plywood on top of a wood box that I built to elevate the plywood. The wood box acted like a drum so I filled it with those foam shipping peanuts that helped but not completely. Then I put some sort of ½” fiber board from Homedepot on top of the plywood and long screws to fasten the fastrack down tight which helped a lot, but after adding my second train it was like back to 0 again.

You do bring up a good point about absorbing the sound and I wonder if I filled bags if foam shipping peanuts and stuffed them under the layout everywhere I can to see if it will absorb the noise. I think I’ll also try filling the plastic cars with foam peanuts and see if that will help.

[SleeperN06]

fifedog

Kids dig noise, so don't sweat it too much.

Yes they do love the noise, but I don’t want them to lose there hearing.

[Major]

I know what you mean about loudness. When I built my Christmas train gardens I covered the layout in the fake snow that comes in rolls. This soft layer considerably reduce the noise, as I was using S-Helper track which is like Lionel fast track in that it has a plastic roadbed and is louder than other track.  Any kind of padding beneath the track will reduce the nosie level.  My son's layout is built on the foam insulation over plywood.  The foam is better than bare plywood but it still transmits more sound than I expected. When I used rubber roadbed with old style tubular track the sound level was acceptable.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of ways to control the noise.

1. When you build your framing do not cover it with a solid sheet of plywood. Cut strips for the track to sit on, then secure the strips to the framing. When you lay a solid sheet of plywood on the framing you are creating a drum.

2. If you are placing the layout directly on the floor, then the flooring comes into play. On carpeted floors the carpet will deaden the noise some, on hardwood or tile well that just magnifies the noise. Get solid core insulation and place this between your framing members.

3. Cut homasote or fiberboard strips to match your plywood track subbase. Secure to the plywood with screws from below (through the plywood into the fiberboard) you can also use construction adheasive (in the caulking aisle) and forego the screws - the odor is an issue till it dries.

4. Use a white sheet to cover the layout and simulate snow.

5. Secure your track to the fiberboard ensuring you do not go through the fiberboard to the plywood.

And there you have it... a light weight, noise reducing layout.

BTW - you aren't going to harm their hearing unless you get above 100db and I doubt highly your layout is getting that loud.

[SleeperN06]

Thanks Brent, that’s some really good advice and I decided that I’m going to build a completely new layout next year out of that 2” thick pink foam. I really like the idea of it being light weight because right now it takes two people to bring it in from the shed.

 

I didn’t know how to fasten down the track and I kind of hate to glue it down just incase I have electrical problems. The plywood strips you mentioned might just work so that I can screw the track down. If I do use the glue then I might have to go to all MTH track so that I can solider on feeders. I tried to do that with Fastrack but wasn’t so successful and it’s real easy to solder MTH Realtrax.

 

Also I have a couple of cans of the expanding foam and was thinking of using that for inside the cars, but I have two concerns. One is if it will damage the car from expanding too much and the other will I have a heat problems from the lights. I’ve never taken apart a passenger car and don’t know what to expect.

 

I think for right now, I'm thinking for a temporary solution of closing off the bottom of the layout and using my shopvac to blow those foam peanuts into the space below. I’m hoping it will fill all the voids. It will be a huge mess when taking it down, but I have to do something. Its kind of embarrassing showing my Christmas Layout to friends and neighbors, then have they kids turn on the trains while your trying to talk and everybody is holding their ears.

 

I wish I had one of those DB meters to check it out.

 

 

[wjstix]

Normally the noise is caused by the wheels rolling on the track, and the vibration of that being carried to the plywood which acts like a sounding board. The cars themselves shouldn't make much if any sound - of course sound equipped engines are a different matter!!

If you can separate the track from the plywood with something relatively soft, like a layer of homasote board, upsom board, fiberboard etc. it should reduce the noise a lot. If you do add something under the track, and then decide to fasten the track down with small screws or nails, try to use nails or screws short enough that they only go into the homasote or fiberboard or whatever, and not down to the plywood. Otherwise the screws/nails will just carry the sound to the plywood.

[SleeperN06]

wjstix

If you do add something under the track, and then decide to fasten the track down with small screws or nails, try to use nails or screws short enough that they only go into the homasote or fiberboard or whatever, and not down to the plywood. Otherwise the screws/nails will just carry the sound to the plywood.

Ah ha, this may be my problem because I am using fiberboard or whatever it’s called, but I have 1 ½” screws running through it and into the plywood.

 

I probably can just remove the screws because most of the track is stuck to the paint anyway.

 

When I told my wife about my plan to blow packing peanuts, she said “NO Way”, so now she’s stuffing pillows under the layout. I don’t know if that will work or not but I guess we’ll see.

 

[SleeperN06]

Well I removed as many screws as I can reach and it does make a difference.

 

Today is one of those very few times that I’m all alone without noises like TVs and women so I can hear every sound coming from the track with only one train running and I definitely hear the wheels from these cars. I’m going to see if I can find some soft flexible upholstery foam that I can cut into small pieces to fit inside the cars to help muffel the sound.

[SleeperN06]

Ok I tried putting some foam inside the cars and did absorb a lot of noise, but I still got a lot more to do. I’m now thinking about adding some weight because there is very little noise coming from the Loco compared to the cars and I think it might be because of the weight.

 

I found a piece insulating foam with the foil on it so I cut it to size and peeled of the foil.

 

Then I cut holes out for the lights and stuffed it into the cars.

 

 

[SleeperN06]

Update:

 I had a chance to compare this one with the foam with another without the foam and there is defiantly a difference, but I think the soft foam would work better except I don’t have any.

I still think adding weight will also make a difference, but I don’t know what to use because I have extra cars and I don’t want put too much strain on the couplers that have been coming loose and my loco sometimes loses traction on my bridge with a slight incline.

I tried to video tape it but every time I try to catch it with the camera, it starts running fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r5JFydMvmY

[mgbbob]

There is a post out there somewhere from David Farquhar? that recommends using some type of foam under the track and then attaching with zip ties in place of screws.  I have tried it out on two short sections of track.  On one I used foam road bed and the other I used carpet. 

I am using section 031 and 027 track.  My preliminary opinion is tha this works.  I don't know how you can do in on a board on the floor but the concept is to eliminate the fixed connection.

 

Bob

[smokymtguy]

I have started to use fiber fill, or poly fil, that you can buy at Wal-mart, Joann Fabric, or any place the sells fabric.  you use it to stuff pillows or stuff animals. I just pull off a hand full of it and stuff it into the cars.  Works great for boxcars, covered Hoppers, and tank cars, and you don't have to stuff them very full at all. I have even stuff some inside of diesel shells, but you have to be carefull that is does not get into the e-units or motors.  I can run trains and still have a conversation in the same room without  raising me voice to be heard.

[SleeperN06]

mgbbob

There is a post out there somewhere from David Farquhar? that recommends using some type of foam under the track and then attaching with zip ties in place of screws.  I have tried it out on two short sections of track.  On one I used foam road bed and the other I used carpet. 

I bought a roll of foam track bed, but wasn’t sure how to use it with the plastic molded roadbed, so I might give it a try.

Removing the screws was an improvement and I can really hear the difference when the train goes through the tunnel where I couldn’t reach the screws. Also I think I’m going to enclose the tunnel with foam so that it muffles the echoing sound from the inside.

[SleeperN06]

smokymtguy

I have started to use fiber fill, or poly fil, that you can buy at Wal-mart, Joann Fabric, or any place the sells fabric.  you use it to stuff pillows or stuff animals. I just pull off a hand full of it and stuff it into the cars.  Works great for boxcars, covered Hoppers, and tank cars, and you don't have to stuff them very full at all. I have even stuff some inside of diesel shells, but you have to be carefull that is does not get into the e-units or motors.  I can run trains and still have a conversation in the same room without  raising me voice to be heard.

Oh that’s a good idea and I think my wife has some of that stuff in her sewing room. I haven’t done my freight cars yet. The passenger cars had the issue of lights and windows to deal with so I didn’t want to block the windows or cause a fire hazard with the hot light bulbs.

[Anonymous]

I caution you about putting insulation inside your passenger and freight cars... unless you can be 100% certain there will never be any moisture inside the cars due to condensation from temperature changes.

[SleeperN06]

So now that all the Christmas stuff is packed up and put way, I’m trying to make all the changes now for next year so that it can just go together in one weekend instead of taking the whole month.

I pulled up everything except the ¾” plywood and laid down 2” foam. I cut 2” holes all the way around the ¾” plywood for track wiring and everywhere else I could think of while maintaining the structural strength of the plywood. I glued the 2” foam to the plywood and I laid down the track on top of the foam without any glue for now just to see if there was any change in noise..

Now not only do I still have the noise from the metal wheels on the track. But now I also got a new humming sound that is very loud. I’m hoping that will go away when I glue down the track, but in case it doesn’t, I need to switch to plan “B” only I don’t know exactly what that is yet.

I bought a roll of fiber insulation this morning that I’m planning on stapling up to the bottom of the plywood in hopes that it will absorb the noise, but I’m just guessing at this point. I need to pull up all my feeders up and connect to the track before I can install the insulation.

I’m running 3 trains on 3 separate tracks and I may have to resort to running only one at a time.

[Anonymous]

I would be helpful if you could post some pictures of what you are doing so we can better make recommendations for you.

[jmkk]

Could you spray the bottom with some rubberized undercoating? I don't know if it would attack the plastic though.

[SleeperN06]

This is just the 1st level and there are two levels above this.

Also the wooden structure at the bottom of the picture is will add my third track all the way around the entire layout. It’s going to be assembled in two pieces with the back section a 6” wide shelf with 2” foam that will be removable from the main layout for portability. Only the corners will actually cross the main layout.