changes over the years

[LL675]

I recently restarted my subscription to CTT. I've also been going thru my old issues, dating back to the start of CTT. I've noticed with the new issues, the shift to newer type trains,and not much on the older ones.. This seems like a complete change of direction from where the magazine started out. The newer trains, while nice (and expensive) just don't seem to me to be "Classic or Toy". I'm not bashing the magazine, but this isn't what got me interested in CTT in the begining. Opinions?

[Joe Hohmann]

Back then, a lot more people collected the "old stuff" than do today. Also, a lot of "old" has already been covered (where the new is allways "new"). More great reference books related to the "old", as well as on-line sites exist today. I agree the title, CTT, may be a bit off-mark, but they still cover the old stuff too.

BTW, I would not even consider putting "new" trains on my Christmas layout, although I do run semi-scale TMCC "newer" trains on my small year 'round layout.

[wallyworld]

I recently let my subscription lapse for this reason as the amount of classic versus Hi-Rail has greatly diminished and this is simply a fact of life, and is not intended as a criticism, which is all in the eye of the beholder, unless you count Lionel and some occasional American Flyer in the mix. My knowledge of "Classic " does not extend to Voltamp., Dorfan, Hafner, and the wonderful U.K classics...It's odd I cannot find any information here anymore. Large spreads of expensive layouts or family based layouts are fine, but the content seems to be based on a demographic which the editors know more about than I do as well as many of the articles are not written by the staff and so it's a matter of what turns up, I suppose.. That is not to say I don't read it. It seemed at this point to go to the newsstand and see what's in it and how much classic was in each issue would determine whether to buy an individual issue makes more sense. I like the magazine, but frankly  the title has become, at least for me, a misnomer.I would gladly renew if there was more classic in classic toy trains. I keep hopeful.

[sir james I]

A lot has to do with the material that is submitted but they rejected photos of my layout as being to toy like 1950s. I thought that was what Classic trains were about. I still get CTT, look at the layout pics. and read the revues.

[arkady]

LL675

I've noticed with the new issues, the shift to newer type trains,and not much on the older ones.. This seems like a complete change of direction from where the magazine started out. The newer trains, while nice (and expensive) just don't seem to me to be "Classic or Toy". I'm not bashing the magazine, but this isn't what got me interested in CTT in the begining. Opinions?

Agreed.  That's why I rarely buy CTT any more.

 

[Firesteel]

In my opinion CTT has a good balance of classic, modern, and hi-rail articles. Everyone enjoys this hobby in a different way so it is probably very difficult to provide a magazine that will appeal to all of us. I also enjoy postwar trains. In fact, Roger Carp's new book is one of my favorites.  However, I also enjoy modern trains and have a layout that is more or less hi-rail in nature. I really like the variety CTT offers including layout and construction articles. These types of articles are good because they cover the various ways to enjoy the trains we already have. I sometimes think that too much emphasis is placed on acquiring trains. Many people on various forums talk about the items they will buy every time a new catalog comes out. If a certain catalog does not have anything that interests them, they act like the hobby is ending. Collecting old toy trains is wonderful but there are times when I cannot afford the items that are available. When this occurs, I can work on the layout and still have fun. The reason I personally stay in this hobby is the variety of ways to enjoy toy trains. Again, this is just my opinion, but I feel that CTT is doing a great job at introducing us to the many ways we can participate in the world of toy trains. 

Karl

[Penny Trains]

I discovered CTT in 1989 and subsequently discovered Standard Gauge at the same time.  The first issue I ever saw was the one with Chuck Brasher on the cover and I've been an on and off subscriber ever since.  I bought that first issue at a B-Dalton bookstore.  Basically my descision as to subscribe or not to subscribe is based on hobby shop frequency rather than magazine content.  When I was actively building a layout I was more likely to frequent the hobby shop and since they almost always had a back issue or two lying around I was able to keep up without missing too many issues.  Nowadays I can't get out as often as I'd like so I'm happy to have the magazine come to me.

Somewhere along the line I remember reading about the issue of what makes a "Classic".  If I remember correctly, the official answer was something along the lines that the magazine also covers what they deem to be potential classics as well as old or vintage items.  And I'd say that part of the job is harder because you have to go out on a limb to say something like "this MTH model of the 999 Empire State Express is destined to become a classic".  (Not an actual quote from the magazine)

It's easy to call the 408E, 400E and 700E classics.  But what really made them classics?  Was it the fact that they were priced beyond the means of the average consumer so more kids ogled after them in the interviening years?  Or does it have more to do with asthetics?  What about quality?  Are they classics because so many of them still exist?  I'm not really sure we can answer any of those questions effectively since each one would rank differently to each one of us.

But what about era?  Personally I'm more inclined to lay out the cash for tinplate than I am for postwar.  I fell in love with Standard Gauge in 1989 and although my collection is small, it's still larger than my post-war collection.  Also I grew up during the 1970's so it was MPC trains I remember on store shelves (at Kiddie City) and consequently it was MPC trains I asked for.  Topping the list was the MPC General.  Granted that was just a modern reissue of a post-war engine, but I didn't know that when I was 8.  All I knew was that I wanted either the James Gang set or the separate sale General because they looked cool.  Thus in spite of the knowledge I've gained since that time I'd still go after the MPC General ahead of the post-war original simply because it's the one I saw when I was a kid.

This past year especially there's been a lot more articles on layout construction than what I remember previously.  But then again, I haven't exactly done a census of back issues either so I can't speak authoritatively.  If I had to take a guess I'd say the magazine staff is taking advantage of the expertise Carl Swanson gained from his tenure at MR to teach us ways to make our layouts more realistic.  And let's face facts, those wonderful scale proportioned and uber-detailed top of the line engines that are coming out nowadays don't usually look at home next to a 124 station or a Marx Commodore Vanderbilt.  More 21st century layouts are being built with Atlas, Gargraves, Ross, ScaleTrax or Fast Track these days than there are with old style tubular track.  So it's only fitting that a magazine would keep up with the times.

I would like to see more Standard Gauge and pre-war O in the magazine though.  Since we now have wonderful modern high res digital cameras I think it's time to re-visit some of the layouts first featured 20 years ago and give them the kind of exposure they deserve.  Chuck Brasher and Stan Roy come to mind.

Becky

[Firesteel]

Becky makes a good point in regards to the definition of "classic." I agree it depends on everyone's point of view. If we were to use age as a determining factor, then the definition is a moving target. I have a Lionel 2322 Virginian Trainmaster from 1966. When CTT was first published in 1987 this locomotive was 21 years old. If we apply this criteria today, a train made in 1989 would now be considered "classic."

Karl

[rtraincollector]

to me this has come up a few times since I've been on the forum and its a good discussion at all times but the bottom line is what really is classic toy trains. Goto Ebay and you have folks say antique Lionel train set and its made in the 70's well it is, its over 30 years old.

I have a 1996 TMCC engine and to me its a classic its almost 15 years old. Its A GP-9 it was the first model made with TMCC. ( From what I have been told.)

I have some others up and down in age.

another way to look at it is Okay 3 rail trains is the classic old trains so what if there made today and have all this new electronics you still can run them conventional if you wish.

its all how you look at it. I like CTT and I like the other one usually I switch back and forth one year one next year the other but this happens to be my 2 nd in a row for CTT this time will see come renewal time

To me its just have a good enjoyment and find what your looking for as for the other mag it doesn't cater to old O gauge trains either that much its mainly newer stuff too. so it all depends on what there covering the month you happen to look at one or the other.

I try to buy trains that represent the late 50's to late 60's but thats not aways what i end up with.

[challenger3980]

The "Classic" part in the title may be of questionable relevence anymore, but I still enjoy the magazine anyway, and I personally have almost Zero interest in Pre/Post war trains, so I am Happy with the content.

Myself, I sure Hope that they DON'T start including HO in CTT, there is already more than adequate coverage in Kalmbach's "HO and N Scale Monthly" er I mean Model Railroader magazine. I have not renewed my subscription to MR, specifically because magazine titled MODEL RAILROADER, should include more than just HO and N scales, with a dabbling of "Z Scale".  I guess thier logic is that O, S and Standard Gauge are covered in CTT, and Large Scale is covered in Garden Railways, so there is no need to include them in HO and N Monthly. By the same logic, I say NO HO, in CTT, Thank You.

Doug

[ivesboy]

 

   I agree, I guess that keeps the lights on.

 

The biggest fear i have with the situation is the fact that CTT is the face of our hobby on news stands. Lots of new and probable members read this. They could care less about tinplate because they dont even know what it is. Also it must not be "cool" if its not in print. Almost every train i sell goes to someone who buys the Repro tinplate and gets into the old stuff after they realize its a horrific investment, or they look at it and ask what it is.

  People buy and collect as well as covet what they see in print. I miss the days of prewar in the old rag, but i guess the days are gone. Everyone has to pay their bills, whos to blame em?

[wallyworld]

Ivesboy,

I agree and I think if I transposed Classic Toy Trains to another hobby, lets say "Classic Cars Magazine" and simply found new cars, I wouldn't be able to  tell you what a classic car was, or I would assume that new cars are classics, which, very few of the whole actually do become classic because there has been enough time that has passed to determine, like all history, in hindsight, what was classic, or innovative, and what was mediocre, although popular. A lot of popular items for their time were mediocre.I think the new book by Rodger Carp will certainly be worth reading, even if I disagree with his choices. That being said, I think CTT has lost it's individuation in the market, that once set it apart from "the magazine that shall be nameless" and there appears to be a dropping off in subscription rates, although I could be wrong. None the less, I pick and choose what issues to buy and your point is well taken.Although I have to admit that if there was an expanded Bob's Train box , I would have kept the subscription because I enjoy his quirky and entertaining review where we can actually see the product perform. That is one step ahead of the competition and should be expanded..but time will tell..

[lennyski]

I think the shift has been to hi-rail. I enjoy looking at the great layouts they put in there and you can learn alot from them. But I will never attain nor do I want a layout like that. I enjoy the newer trains but I like conventional. I don't want CTT to do away with the hi-rail but rather include more traditional or O-27 layouts and reviews in the magazine. I am looking forward to the new issue since it looks like the holiday version. I think most of us still can only put up Christmas layouts rather than permanent so I can relate to these a little more.

[Major]

I did not know about Classic Toy trains until just around 2001, but only recently became a subscriber. I have been able to purchase most previous issues so I have seen the change you are talking about. Being in S-Scale I could make the statement that even less is talked about in CTT on American Flyer during the post war period  that Lionel.  However in the case of American Flyer what more needs to be said? I believe that CTT has done an outstanding job in telling about  Classic Flyer during the post war period.  I also belong to the NASG, and TCA  and get their publications and read other S scale and O scale publications.  You can only talk about a classic toy train in only so many different ways until it become repetitive.  So Talking about new products in my opinon is a good thing.  I like  the massive high rail layouts they feature as well as the photos of the classic 50's style layouts.  I learn new ideas from all of them.  I even learn from all of you on this forum (I thank all of you) and appreciate that CTT has made this exchange possible.

[Civil War]

V8Vega

Firesteel said very well what I wanted to say. with a good ballance of classic, modern, hi rail, reviews, layout and construction articles. The magazine is much more interesting from around 2000 up than before that. It dosen't say that it's all O or S. I wish they would start to include HO toy trains.

Dennis

God forbid. The day I see an HO article is the day I end my subscription. I have most of the older issues that I have bought up along the way and I like them a little better than what is going into the magazine now. I still like the articles as I get a lot of ideas for my layout from what other people are doing. Most of them are a lot more clever than I am.

 

[11th Street]

While the hobby has changed from being hardware driven to software driven (ie Proto 3.x, Vision 1.0,). so too  has CTT changed, as well as this web site & forum . Unfortunately, because those responsible for business model  decisions are not paying attention to readers/consumer grievances, subscribers are left with little option other than discontinuing their subscriptions and email preferences.  Those in the board room can all too easily interpret such developments as a result of  "the economy" or "aging  demographics." Too bad ... but those are the types of excuses that are going down nowadays.

TCA  95-xxxxx, CTT/OGR subscriber since 1994

[Penny Trains]

lennyski

I am looking forward to the new issue since it looks like the holiday version. I think most of us still can only put up Christmas layouts rather than permanent so I can relate to these a little more.

Then the December issue is exactly what you'd expect, lots of holiday layouts!  Some real beauties!

On the HO issue, I'd like to pose the question of whether covering Lionel or Marx HO or OO would "be offensive"?  Especially Lionel pre-war OO since it had very early sectional track with bakelite roadbed.  What thoughts do y'all have on that aspect?

Personally I wouldn't mind reading more about Lionel OO and HO since they're a big part of Lionel's history.  However, I'd want to get back to basics on the very next page after an article on Lionel OO and see a 400E staring me in the face.

I have some HO but it lives in boxes most of the time, as does my N gauge.  But, I do enjoy creating carpet central layouts with my Marklin HO set from time to time and wouldn't mind having a small table for that one.  (Maybe card table size with alpine scenery.  It IS 3-rail!  lol)  In 1988 I built an N gauge layout on a 2 1/2 foot square piece of luan to have under my bed in the dorm when I worked at Cedar Point (amusement park on Lake Erie).  I also bought a large collection of battery operated Tomy trains to have a sort-of layout on the spare bed in my hotel room when I was in Thailand in 2005.  I guess I just can't bear to be away from trains.  So since I can't drag a scout set along with me everywhere I go, I adapt to whatever scale I have to based on the space and resources available.  I'd rather have a hinky dinky layout of battery operated Japanese bullet trains than no trains at all for a month or more!  ; )

Becky

[LL675]

I wouldn't mind articles on Lionel,Marx, or Flyer HO,& OO. I relized nobody want s the same thing covered over and over again. Just like some of the car mags seem to show the same cars over and over. And I don't mind the newer stuff. but it seems like both mags are leaning more towards the newer stuff . I guess I need to start my own mag..."Junk Box Classics!"