Post War Lionel Box Cars With Prefix Letter 'X'........

[Train-O]

I am going to state; that Post War Lionel Boxcars with a prefix letter 'X' before their item numbers, not the car's road numbers, designates that the car is an "Express Boxcar," similar to what the P.RR. and various other RRs. used at that time. It seems that Lionel's Post War Boxcars, with a Prefix Letter 'X' before their item numbers, are 'Express,' 'Fast,' & 'Merchandise' type of cars. There are other 'Fast Service' type of 'P.' 'W.' cars, which Lionel produced without the 'X,' that are also 'Head End' type of cars. Please, give your opinions. Thank you, Ralph

[DMUinCT]

Train-O

I am going to state; that Post War Lionel Boxcars with a prefix letter 'X' before their item numbers, not the car's road numbers, designates that the car is an "Express Boxcar," similar to what the P.RR. and various other RRs. used at that time. Please, give your opinions. Thank you, Ralph

 

Per TCA book   "Lionel Trains Standard of the World 1900 - 1943":  Page 2

"Memtion should be made here of the term "X" as used by Lionel.    "X" on the car or set box means only that the item so marked was different from normal production in some way - trim, journal boxes, color, couplers, etc."

Common on both pre and post war Box Cars and a Caboose with BOTH a front and rear coupler (switch engine sets)

 

[Train-O]

Don, Thank you for the clarification of Lionel's use of the Prefix Letter 'X'. I understand what you say, as to what the T.C.A. book says and with what I was told by one of the T.C.A. members, via phone. I don't mean to sound testy on this and my last post, but most of the boxcars with the 'X' are 'Head End/Fast Freight' type of cars, that's why I feel that the 'X' means more,than just 'Special,' or 'Different' on these boxcars. Ralph

[ADCX Rob]

X2458

X2758

 

Rob

[Train-O]

ADCX Rob, Are you agreeing with me that Lionel's models 'X2458' & 'X2758' of P.RR. double door 'Automobile' boxcars are 'Fast Freight', 'Head End' boxcars, because on the inter-net as per the P. RR. they would be 'X-37A' type of boxcars. Ralph http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prrx37main.html http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prrx37main.html

[DMUinCT]

Now you've got me checking numbers in my collection. Why only box cars ?

1.My Pre-War Pennsylvania Double Door Box Car (Automobile Box Car) is "X2758" and the post war is "X2458" (coil couplers). (DOUBLE DOORS ?)

2. My "OO" Gauge, again only the box cars, Penn brown box cars "OO44" and "OO74" have as "Build Date 3-39X29" while my Cream color Lionel Lines is marked "OO14" with a "Build Date 12-38X29". (NEW OR LIMITED PRODUCTION ?)

3. The Pre-war, full size, molded Bakelite,"Simi-Scale" (scale car with tinplate trucks) Penn Box Cars are marked "X2954".  After the war, the same Box Car (now with a black door) became an "Automatic Merchandiser Car" "X3454". (TINPLATE TRUCKS ON A SCALE CAR ?)

4. The under size "O27" post war box cars also carry the "X".  Orange "Baby Ruth" "X6454", the Brown Penn "X6454", and the Silver  "Automatic Merchandiser Car" "X3854".  (UNDER SIZED - SHORT O27 CARS ?)

??????

[Train-O]

Don, I am only surmising that these particular boxcars which have an 'X' are, for the most part, 'Fast Freight' type of cars. When, I called the T.C.A., via phone, and asked if the 'Automatic Merchandise' car was an 'Express' type of car, I was told no, even though I pointed out the same info. given here. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a Lionel 'Glory Days' person to ask about the 'X' Letter designation, whether it's a Prefix, Middle, or Suffix marking. I just feel that LIONEL, in a way, was designating boxcars with an 'X' to indicate a 'Fast Freight' unit. I know, I have a couple of tenders which have an 'X' included with their item numbers, but as for boxcars I believe the 'X' meant 'Fast Freight.' Look at the "Lionel Post War Library" listing of 'Boxcars' and you will see that the majority are 'Fast Freight' types, even though some do not contain an 'X.' And the cars that are marked with an 'X' are of a 'Fast Freight' type. Ralph

[Train-O]

Don, The P.RR. had their 'Express,' 'Fast Freight,' 'Time Freight,' or whatever else it is named, as an 'X-29' designation, from around the mid. '20's., well into the '70's. By the mid. '50's. they changed from the white circled inter-locking letters, to the larger billboard, shadowed keystone, containing the white inter-locking letters. So, your boxcars "Build Dates:" 'L.L. Dec. 1938 'X-29,' though not P.RR., maybe a 'F.F.' car, as Lionel liked the Keystone and the 'P.RR. May 1939 'X-29' is an 'Express Boxcar.' 'http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/Foreign/PRR/PRR-BE.htm http://www.dataviewbooks.com/x29.html Ralph

[Train-O]

At the time that these boxcars hit the market, whether it was for cost savings and or licensing fees of trade marks, I believe Lionel produced, not prototypical, but as close to the prototype without committing any copyright infringement violations. I say, that is why the cars were not prototypically marked at that time. The N.Y.C. and S.F. F 3/7's. were worked out with the actual RR's. and still the Lionel scale models were not an exact representation of the prototypes, for whatever reasons. I am not trying to be a wisenheimer, but these are my beliefs right, or wrong. Ralph

[DMUinCT]

Ralph,

That's how we all learn, come up with a logical explanation and then watch and read to find proof right or wrong.  It's hard to get into the head of Lionel management 65 years ago and figure out what they were thinking.  They put the "X" on for a reason and it would be interesting to know for shure.

Later, in the 6464 series box cars, some were painted for "Fast Freight", NYC "Pacemaker", B&O "Timesaver", SP "Overnite", MP "Eagle Merchandise Service" and others.  Express Cars usually  ran in passenger trains and had passenger trucks, Lionel has had "Express Refrigerator" cars

If you make it to TCA York, I'm in the "Blue Hall", table E-14, drop by.

 

[Train-O]

Don, I thank you for the invite and I would love to go, but I'm sorry that I will not be able to attend, as our Daughter will be having her second child this Autumn. When, things clear up I might be able to join the T.C.A. and be able to meet up with you Gentlemen. I have not researched and I don't know, but it seems when Lionel started to make their later P.W. goodies, I believe some RR's. went out of business, so there might have been less legal hurdles to jump, like now that most manufacturers are able to prototypically reproduce goods, without too many legal hassles. Sincerely, Ralph

[Train-O]

From what I have found out, there are a few prototype boxcars which have an 'X' in their freight class designation denoting 'General Freight,' but these are few, as compared to the vast 'Express' types with the 'X' designation. Other RR's. used the 'X' designation: on some of their 'General Freight' boxcars, but almost all of their 'Fast Freight' boxcars had the 'X.' By far, P.RR. was most famous for their 'X' designation on their 'Express,' or 'Fast' 'Freight' type of boxcars. Though, most RR's. ran their 'Head End' boxcars with their passenger consists, they also ran their 'Head End' boxcars in freight consists, as needed. Ralph