UP is sueing Lionel & Athearn

[FJ and G]

"Lionel will be preparing a press release in the coming days."

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This is just speculation but the press release may contain something about the trains they have not paid fees on being collectors items.

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Also this news just in. We have just learned that Elliot has just been sued by UP for infringing on its trademark "Big Boy" name, used on this forum.


dav

[Anonymous]

Thanks for stepping in Neil. If I was in the UP's position I would require licensing of my logo's, past and present. That would give me a modicum of control over the type and possibly the quality of the product. I can sure think of products I would not want my logo to show up on. The one difference would be I don't believe I would charge for it, again if I was the UP, for all of the positive reasons previously stated, free advertising etc. If required by law to make the license agreement valid, I would charge the minimum possible, like selling your car for $1.00 and other valuable considerations.

To me this would appear to point to possible razor thin profit margins for the railroads but this is just speculation as I have not checked any financial reports.

However, if I was a company like Disney, whose product consist of a cartoon image, you bet I would charge for you to put that image on a thermos bottle, doll or box car.

Oh well, just my 2 cents.

Steve

[spankybird]

Ha but Dave,

Elliot should be safe, after all, Big Boy came from Lima and UP has been using it for all these years.

Do you think anyone from Lima will come back and want some money [?] [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]


tom

[Big_Boy_4005]

Absolutely correct Neil, the trademark laws don't distinguish between consumer products and things like rail service. This is just like the collectable nature of our hobby, value based on demand. UP will find out the true value of it's trademark if they prevail.

The modelers generally feel, that inspite of UP's claims to the contrary, their motive is greed. The law may be on UP's side, and they may win the battle, but lose the war. This is public opinion, and specificly the opinion of potential consumers of the products UP wants licensed. Rub them the wrong way long enough, and they will disappear.

In my opinion, this is a classic case of "the customer is always right". I feel that Lionel and Athearn are standing up for consumers here, just like the cable companies stood up for their customers in the story I told back on page 1.

All of my ranting and raving is over the principle here. I like UP, but I won't go out of my way to buy it. In the meantime, I'm learning how to make my own decals, and Krylon makes a lovely shade of yellow.[swg]

[Anonymous]

Elliot:

Stupid question time: If you don't buy any toy trains with UP logos on them, who are you really hurting? After all, only a portion of the sale ends up in the pockets of UP. Most of it ends up in the manufacturer's pocket. Before Uncle Sam takes his cut.

In any event, we'll see what the courts have to say.

Tony

[cbq9911a]

This suit is in the category of "as dumb as they come". Straight out of the Dilbert comic strip. I'm surprised that somebody at Union Pacific didn't check to see whether a lawsuit was worthwhile.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vitabile

Elliot:

Stupid question time: If you don't buy any toy trains with UP logos on them, who are you really hurting? After all, only a portion of the sale ends up in the pockets of UP. Most of it ends up in the manufacturer's pocket. Before Uncle Sam takes his cut.

In any event, we'll see what the courts have to say.

Tony

It's the principle of this whole thing that gets my goat. Same with the MTH / DCC thing. The MTH vs Lionel one seems to have been mainly internal, and wasn't as obvious to most consumers. This one isn't CHANGING the rules in mid game, it's ENFORCING the rules in mid game, but it still bugs me.

The truth is I haven't bought any new trains retail in well over 2 years. I'm a bargain hunter and an opportunist, eBay and train shows only. I don't pay sales tax, and picking things up in the secondary market means that someone else would be paying the manufacturers, who in turn would be paying UP. It's sort of like buying a used car and letting the previous owner pick up the depreciation.

I'm just not into new trains and catalogs any more. I used to be, but they just started to make too much stuff and have too many catalogs, and it became a turnoff. I have never been into big fancy $1000+ steam engines. Big Boys, Challengers and Turbines were never on my list of things to buy. Come to think of it, I don't even have a list.

If I choose to personally boycott UP after all this, it really won't mean much. The boycott would not mean removing all traces from my layout, as the UP is a SMALL but important part of the plan. Think of me as a mouse, and the UP as an elephant. Now put the elephant on top of Mt Everest, while the mouse stays at the bottom and roars.

We can all say and think what ever we want, but there's only one opinion that matters in the end, and that belongs to THE JUDGE. I think UP has shot themselves in the foot.

[Anonymous]

UP put the value in the UP name and that is worth something
Lionel took value from the UP name without paying for it
Lionel must pay for what it takes

It is as simple as that!

Alan

[Allen Jenkins]

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/ba/06-03-04-307130.html , so, what's all your paranoia about the fact your using a product un- regulated by and unauthorized by the very entity that carved a life out of this great land. Here, in a moment of hesitation, a corporate, is to pay out the *** for just what a part of the environment has incurred opon the rights of way, and so needed it is, to compensate for punitive damages, which will never be repaid. Sony finances a video, played on MTV, "Big Locomotive," 1989, which depicts a UP DD40X in a high speed collision on a basement model railroad. Get It? A BASEMENT MODEL RAILROAD! Shows the world how.... Then Areosmith, bless their hearts, produced "Living on the Edge." ....and so. What would you do? The law can't touch this, the only legal recouse is to do formaly what is being done. And, at the expense of higher pricing (also called the cost of doing business), remember, these comanies, howerver cherished, however loved, are actually, flagrantly breaking the ery copyright laws they would use to sue your very *** off with. So use the bandwidth for something constructive. Save a life, or something. Many threads are under-way to suggest Uncle Pete just Kick the bucket! Enjoy Getting Over It!acj.