OK so I'm burnin the Midnight oil here just to get this done for you guys....(and ladies out there)....Well I thought I would start with two pictures of the completed project with the fan-driven smoke unit install so here they are!!
Alright lets start from the start... First: dissemble the engine and remove the control board, old smoke unit and light(not shown sorry) take extra care on removing the wiring from the board and label all wiring PRIOR to cutting...
The next four pictures are of the new smoke unit its a Lionel 8057-200 Fan-Driven Smoke Unit I rebuilt it right out of the package I also used pink insulation to repack the unit (not shown) and the one picture that likes like I used aluminum foil on the board.. well your close but I used HVAC foil tape on the board, Kinda like a heat shield for to protect the board from excessive heat and to keep the heat where it needs to be... then the last of the four pictures it the re assembled smoke unit and if you look close I used my soldering iron ad isolated the fan from the heat element so that the cherry switch can be used in conventional mode(bottom right of the board)
Sorry but this is the only picture of the cherry switch that I took that came out clear...as you can see I reused the smoke lever and cut off the lever to the old smoke unit and saved that side that sticks out toward the board and mounted the switch to where the board pedestal was mounted to.
this picture shows the cherry switch wired up and the light back in the unit but modified for it to fit with the now smoke unit...I wired the switch as followed Common to the track hot(+) and the Normally Open to the Fan Hot. I also removed the red and black wired that run from the "Smoke on/off" switch and wired them directly to track voltage to the smoke unit. so wire as follow both outer of the 3 lead on the smoke unit are hot and the center is your neutral the one for the fan goes to the cherry switch the common from the cherry switch and the heat element the connect together with one side of the on/off switch, the the switch to the center rail.
a look at the smoke unit in the shell. I tried double sided take from the hardware store but later used hot glue instead
in the next three picture are of testing the unit and adjusting the insulation for air flow.
Last I had to move the board to the back of the engine or move it into the tender and have a tether run between them for the motor
and the last three pictures are of the unit reassembled.. first one is at full power in neutral with fan off ( you can kinda see smoke coming out the stack and by the trucks, then the next two are the cherry switch activated.
Well I hope this was helpful and any question please ask away and hopefully this post will make it as a sticky
Good Job but I dont understand the cherry switch part how does it work?? I think really all it does is turm the smoke unit on /off I did mine almost like yours but I cut down the lamp braket and just put the smoke unit on top of that everything ok here but the cherry switch part again good job really nice my email adress is trainman@intergrafix.net if you can send me a close up of the cherry switch that would be great Thanks Ed
Thank you for the detailed instructions and pics. I will be doing a polar express and a SF 4156 from the Super Freight set (same boiler casting and wheel arrangement).I also have the same question as Ed. Can you describe the function of the cherry switch. From an earlier post I was thinking it would make the smoke "puff". Again thanks for the detailed photos.
Jason
B&O = Best & Only
Nick,
Thanks for the how to. That looks great. I've got an NYC berk from the 2004 catalog, and this upgrade would be perfect for it.
Thanks Nick for taking the time to put that tutorial together for everyone. I may give it a try, I think I will have to order the parts.
Paul
Hello all and FIRE 370
First let me say that I greatly applaud your efforts FIRE 370 as I think this is a great thing for many who have longed for a fan driven PE. Actually this has been quite a quest for me too ever since I got a PE set for Xmas last year so as such I have been following this thread.
Again this looks like a great idea, but I do have one question or point I would like to bring up though and I hope none of this comes off in a negative way and as well I would suspect that this is the case but I just wanted to ask.
As I am assuming that you are only going to use this on a variable voltage layout, I am assuming under all conditions that the heater element is receiving a variable voltage too, correct?
My reason for asking this it that most fan driven units are only used in some way shape or form in a system that under the needed conditions such as being parked, either controls the current sent to the heaters by either reducing or eliminating that voltage or runs the fan full time or both all in a effort to keep the heaters from over heating.
So I just wonder if by the way you done this, which if I understand you correctly, is wired so that the fan only runs if the microswitch is made, if you have you have considered that.
In other words, if the train is every sitting and is not in a physical position to run that fan as the micro switch is not made, but that the heaters were getting any kind of voltage that could run them even a little, especially for a long time, and/or especially if the unit were dry, that this could very well result in a very bad situation.
I would think that if it is only on a variable voltage system that what ever volts it might be getting under a condition where the train was not moving would be so low it shouldn’t cause this problem but I just thought I would mention that.
For instance just to illustrate things and I know this is not exactly the same but, the way the MTH system works even under DCS, the heater gets a certain voltage under any running condition but when it stops, that is greatly reduced even under a constant voltage systems such as DCS. But then as well as since it does not run off of a micro switch, under all conditions of stopping, it runs the fan full.
But even with that low voltage, I saw a post once (and the pics btw) where a person parked a MTH train in a plastic MTH engine house and left the smoke unit on and even with that voltage so low it was not even enough to vaporize the fluid and as well with the fan running to cool it, it still was enough after a good amount of time that it actually catch the house on fire!
I guess my point is that and again I think your idea is great and I don’t mean to sound negative about it but, given the way you have this, I would very much only run this train under very highly monitored conditions and keep in mind what I mentioned as unless the heater assembly has a over-heat cut-out, or even if it does, that this does have the potential for a problem.
Personally as I said this has been a quest of mine as well and I had also considered something that was pretty much just what you have done, only with a MTH fan unit, but it was that one fact that I consideration that eliminated that as choice for me.
For me I have run the gamut on choices for this and had even tried installing a TAS unit as that at least has a over-heat cut-out but as others said there just isn’t enough room.
At this point I have given up on anyway of doing this simply but safely and as such I have committed myself to installing a complete MTH Protosound upgrade kit into the PE Berk.
Trust me the kit isn’t cheap and I have had to do some creative fabing and so far I have even had to sacrifice a few parts from a spare MTH Pacific train I have that weren't in the kit, but so far things seem to be coming a long well.
So far I have removed and installed the checkered flywheel from the Pacific onto the Lionel motor, I have been able to install the tach reader bracket securely and in the right position and I have adapted the fan driven unit/head light bracket to the old Lionel smokers position with the output correctly and securely installed in the output whole of the Lionel Berk. Which btw and this is not meant to sound braggy but, I was able to do this with it attached to the frame not the cap for easiest service.
The next step will be to remove the rear switch mounting material and mount the tether lead plug. Then install all the PS2 tender stuff into the PE tender and then hope there are no shorts and test things.
Btw I had already cut the cap on this train before for a tether as I adapted the PE engine and tender caps to a TMCC O-27 unit's frame a while back. As well as it is a TMCC frame it already has the taped wholes for the plug mounting. But I think if I remember how the stock frame is, it has a notch for a plug but I think the screw wholes would need taping and as well the switch mounting material would still need to be remove but aside from that I think all that would be just as possible for the stock frame as well.
As well I already notched a whole for this in the PE tender which as it was plastic was really easy.
At this point I still have more to do and who knows, maybe something will put a stop to it, in fact the one thing I'm worried about now is how much power and voltage does the PS system send to the motor? But I think it all should continue well as I think I have over come at least what appears to have been the hardest stuff and if it does all work out I will make a actual dedicate post detailing more.
As I mentioned though Fire 370, I think your idea is great but I just wanted to mention the things I mentioned as I really hope that they are considered by you and any others who do the same as I would really hate for anyone to have any ill effects from this.
Best of luck.
here is a close up picture of the smoke unit that I edited in paint shop for everyone to see about what I meant about Isolating the fan from the heat element.
and here is the best close up of the cherry switch that I can get for you guys
any other questions you guys have ask away.....
WBFLine,
"Again this looks like a great idea, but I do have one question or point I would like to bring up though and I hope none of this comes off in a negative way and as well I would suspect that this is the case but I just wanted to ask."
I would rather have both negative and positive feedback than no feedback at all.... and FYI it did not come off as being negative just a concern.
"As I am assuming that you are only going to use this on a variable voltage layout, I am assuming under all conditions that the heater element is receiving a variable voltage too, correct?"
Correct: Just in conventional mode not TMCC.
"My reason for asking this it that most fan driven units are only used in some way shape or form in a system that under the needed conditions such as being parked, either controls the current sent to the heaters by either reducing or eliminating that voltage or runs the fan full time or both all in a effort to keep the heaters from over heating."
Great question also: with this let me point out that I would NOT recommend having the engine parked for longer than a minute with out the micro switch activated (fan on) or the element WILL burn out or worse ( I spoke to Lionel tech support on that issue and they stated that the element will burn out if left on higher than 50% or V for extend periods with out the fan running), but with any smoke unit that happens and they are easy to replace and cheap too.
"So I just wonder if by the way you done this, which if I understand you correctly, is wired so that the fan only runs if the microswitch is made, if you have you have considered that."
That is also correct: the main reason I installed the micro switch is to give it that steam "Puffing" look(if you watched Thomas the tank engine with one of your kids it looks real close to that) instead of constant smoke.
"In other words, if the train is every sitting and is not in a physical position to run that fan as the micro switch is not made, but that the heaters were getting any kind of voltage that could run them even a little, especially for a long time, and/or especially if the unit were dry, that this could very well result in a very bad situation."
Thank you for pointing that out. as you notice when I wrote it at 1 AM I did leave out some stuff that that, and not to pick on anyone common sense should play a factor on that..
"I would think that if it is only on a variable voltage system that what ever volts it might be getting under a condition where the train was not moving would be so low it shouldn't’t cause this problem but I just thought I would mention that."
Here is some more useful information that should clear up any other concerns about track voltage to the smoke unit
Conventional Mode Operation Track Voltage Element Voltage Fan Motor Voltage 15 vac 13.25 vac 5.00 vdc 14 vac 12.37 vac 5.00 vdc 13 vac 11.40 vac 5.00 vdc
12 vac 10.23 vac 5.00 vdc
11 vac 9.41 vac 5.00 vdc
10 vac 8.43 vac 5.00 vdc
9 vac 7.27 vac 5.00 vdc
8 vac 6.47 vac 5.00 vdc
7 vac 5.63 vac 5.00 vdc
6 vac 4.62 vac 4.69 vdc
5 vac 3.53 vac 3.32 vdc
and thank you again for the concerns
Great job but I'm coming in extremely late to the discussion. What was the problem and what is a cherry switch?
I was lucky enough to receive from my daughters a Hogwarts set for Christmas 2008 and I could not have been happier with the quality of the smoke, engine, constant voltage lighting and operating couplers in the coaches. Last April l purchased a 1952 336rr Berkshire at York and though the smoke unit appears to work, I can't get anything more than a few wispy puffs for about 5 seconds after cooking the thing in neutral at 18 volts for a few mnutes. I've tried everything from Lionel fluid [from the hogwarts set] to Protosmooke to 3 different lamp oils. Nothing works. Any thoughts?? And I've been thinking about trying to rig some constant voltage into my old Flyers [which always smoked very well compared to the Lionel systems]. Thanks. I really enjoyed your article and admired your ingenuity. Way to go!
Cherry is a company that makes switches: http://www.cherrycorp.com/ Which of their products is being used here, I don't know.
Bob Nelson
TraineddadSean Great job but I'm coming in extremely late to the discussion. What was the problem and what is a cherry switch? I was lucky enough to receive from my daughters a Hogwarts set for Christmas 2008 and I could not have been happier with the quality of the smoke, engine, constant voltage lighting and operating couplers in the coaches. Last April l purchased a 1952 336rr Berkshire at York and though the smoke unit appears to work, I can't get anything more than a few wispy puffs for about 5 seconds after cooking the thing in neutral at 18 volts for a few mnutes. I've tried everything from Lionel fluid [from the hogwarts set] to Protosmooke to 3 different lamp oils. Nothing works. Any thoughts?? And I've been thinking about trying to rig some constant voltage into my old Flyers [which always smoked very well compared to the Lionel systems]. Thanks. I really enjoyed your article and admired your ingenuity. Way to go!
Hi! Your smoke unit wicking might be burned. You have to take the locomotive shell off of the chassis and pry off the top of the smoke unit with a screwdriver, and the element should come up with it and you should see the wicking, get some pink insulation material and stuff it down into the bottom of the smoke unit (be shure to not block the holes that are in the bottom of the smoke unit, if you do, the engine will not puff like it should) The smoke unit lid and element should slide back on top, and you should add plenty of fluid to the unit, i'm guessing about 8-10 drops starting off, since its bone dry to begin with. You should be ready to go. I hope this helps you get your 726rr berkshire back in the habit of smoking again. cough cough
Give me steam locomotives or give me DEATH!
Berkshire Junction, bringing fourth the cry of the Iron Horse since 1900.
hello i have one of these non smokers and it really bugs me and i have try mega smoke and the insulation tricks but aways read there was a better way i not good at electrictronics and have mild arthritis in hands so is doing a non fan smoke unit be easier for me as how would you rate the difficulty for 1 to 10 or is the a hotter element or just get resistors to make the element hotter as i think someone said i not try it but wire smoke unit to rollers i bet i make board go pop i done it once like a fire cacker going of in the car paper every where but it got fix all things can be fix into something if now how and got the money but luonel dont have the parts avaialbe so that they can sell the better berk's the one's that talk and smoke thanks but i dont think i able to do this as i cant find the parts but good work
where did you find the smoke unit you used as i dont have tmcc so geuss dont need cherry switch as i dont think i can put borad in back and i dont need that much smoke if you still there i cotton 56 so get a hold of me i like to help mine as i really diapointed in it smoke when the mpc out smoke it i cant tell when it need fuel is so bad and you should see the solder mess they didnt to the light it laying over i dont know if bulb will unscrew o well but need help thanks if you still online
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month