Postwar Smoke Unit Questions

[turbine682]

Hi! I have a Lionel 682 turbine, 2056 Hudson, and 736 Berkshire. Appreciate any info about 1) original smoke units (which engines use pellets versus liquid?) and 2) What is the best smoke unit system for upgrading these engines. 3) Where can I find basic maintenance info as far as replacing head light lamps, cleaning motor brushes, cleaning piston rods,etc. Also would like maintenance info for 2046 Whistle Tenders. Thanks in advance! --Ed

[Algonquin]

Hi Ed,

Question 1:

All three of the postwar engines you list were originally designed to operate with smoke pellets. However, according to the Lionel website (lionel.com), these units can be operated with fluid if the fluid is added at one drop at a time to prevent flooding the fluid reservoir.

Question 2:

You can convert the old pellet type to fluid type. The following direction are from the Lionel website under “General Tips/FAQs” :

How To Convert Old Style "PELLET TYPE" Smoke Units To Work With Lionel Smoke Fluid
First determine whether you want to continue to use the pellet type unit. You actually can add smoke fluid to these units, but you must not add more than one or two drops maximum or the unit will not function. Quite frankly converting the unit makes the most sense.
If you decide to convert the pellet type unit to a smoke fluid type unit, here are the parts you will need.
Part Number and Description Quantity Needed
600-0671-181, stack gasket 1
600-0671-221, smoke unit liner 1
600-8141-056, resistor wick 1
600-2029-016, smoke unit cover 1
600-2029-015, insulation sleeve 1
600-8141-055, smoke unit resistor 1
600-2020-M09, solder lug (optional) 1

These parts are available through any Lionel Authorized Service Center. To locate one near you, see our dealer locator or call 1-800-4Lionel. The parts are available directly from the factory customer service department.

Here's what you will need to do to convert the unit.
First, remove the locomotive's cab to expose the smoke unit. Next, carefully pry the top off of the smoke unit. You may see pellet residue in the smoke unit chamber, use a small knife or flat-blade screwdriver to remove it. A small amount of light oil sprayed into the cavity will make removal of the residue easier. Make sure the hole in the bottom of the smoke unit is cleared to allow the flow of air, from the action of the piston, to continue through the smoke unit.

Once the residue has been removed you can start to rebuild the unit. First, slip the silver colored wick over the smoke unit resister, then bend the smoke unit resistor into a U shape and put the legs through the holes in the new smoke unit cover. Now, place the black insulation sleeve over the leg of the resister that's through the larger hole in the smoke unit cover. Make sure that the insulation actually fits through the hole. Place the new smoke unit liner into the smoke unit chamber and then reassemble the cover, with the resistor, by firmly pressing it into the smoke unit chamber. Place the stack gasket on top of the smoke unit cover.
Next cut the insulated wire going to the old smoke unit resistor and solder the new insulated leg of the resistor to the old smoke unit wire. Wrap the connection with electrical tape. The remaining bear wire can be soldered to any convenient ground ( outside rail ) connection, or you may add the optional solder lug at the smoke unit mounting bracket and solder the wire to the lug.

You are now ready to test your work. Add 2 to 4 drops of smoke fluid through the top hole in the smoke unit and power-up your locomotive. Once you're assured everything is working properly, reassemble the locomotive and you're ready for many years of realistic puffing smoke.



Question 3:

Kalmbach publishes several good resources for repairing and maintaining Lionel Trains. I have listed three that are currently available here on the trains.com site and should be available at a local hobby shop. I have copies of the first and third below. The third one contains copies of the original Lionel operation and maintenance instructions. The other two provide detailed instructions on specific repair projects like cleaning motors, lubricating etc..

Toy Train Repair Made Easy, $16.95
Learn how to take it apart, fix it, rewire it, and make your Lionel train or accessory work again! Step-by-step instructions in this detailed 21-project book can help you get your collection running. By Ray L. Plummer. 8 1/4 x 10 3/4; 80 pgs.; 27 color and 114 b&w photos; 23 illus.; softcover.

http://shops.trains.com/product.asp?mscssid=9291FEGWPES92JTC0G095AV1QB2HDSE1&idMerchant=1034&idGUID=&idProdCat=13&idProduct=4288&Size=


Beginner's Guide to Repairing Lionel Trains, $15.95
Teaches how to get old Lionel trains running again! Shows how to repair and maintain Lionel O gauge trains built from the turn of the century through the 1970s. Gives detailed explanations with photos and diagrams illustrating easy repair, lubrication, and maintenance tips and techniques. 8 1/4 x 10 3/4; 80 pgs.; 150 b&w photos; softcover.

http://shops.trains.com/product.asp?mscssid=9291FEGWPES92JTC0G095AV1QB2HDSE1&idMerchant=1034&idGUID=&idProduct=4290


Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains, 1945-1969, 7th Editon, $22.95
Offers more than a thousand repair and maintenance tips for Lionel locomotives, operating cars, accessories, transformers, light bulbs, and switches. Provides Lionel technical advice as well as handy techniques submitted by toy train collectors and operators. 6 x 8 7/16, 752 pgs.; softcover.

http://shops.trains.com/product.asp?mscssid=9291FEGWPES92JTC0G095AV1QB2HDSE1&idMerchant=1034&idGUID=&idProduct=5099


I hope this inormation is useful

Regards,

Tim Pignatari

[turbine682]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the excellent info! I've glanced at the smoke unit info at Lionel.Com and will certainly re-visit in detail.

Have you done one of these conversions?

Sincerely appreciate the repair guides info too. All three engines (esp. the 682) run and pull very well. I want to make sure that I take good care of these (and future postwar) guys.

Thanks,
--Ed

[Algonquin]

Hi Ed,

I have not made the modification myself. Several years ago, I had my Local Lionel Service Station replace the smoke unit in my 681 turbine. I had him put in the pellet type.

The only problem with the pellet type is finding smoke pellets. I have a bottle of postwar pellets, a couple bottles of pellets from the 70's and a bottle of pellets manufacturer by K-Line back in the late 80's. I use them sparingly since no one is currently manufacturing pellets. I use the drop of fluid most of the time and save the pellets for special occasions. The pellets provide much better volume of smoke than the fluid and the smell of the pellet smoke brings back nice memories from my childhood.

There are a couple of other sources that show how to repair and modify smoke units. In addition to the books I referenced, Jim Weatherford put out a few videos several years ago on repairing lionel trains. Each video had several projects on it. I looked at my copies and Volume two of his video series covers repair replacement of smoke units. You may have to call around to a couple of hobby shops to locate one of these videos. I see them occasionally at some of the train shows I attend, so they are still around.

I found these videos very useful since I could actually see someone making the repair rather than just looking at pictures in the repair books.

Regards,

Tim Pignatari

[turbine682]

Hi Tim,

Great info about smoke pellets vs liquid. Didn't know that pellets produced better smoke. Found out last Jan that pellets aren't made anymore. Have had slight success with 1 drop of liquid - better than no smoke at all.

Thanks for the info on the repair books and video - I plan to order the books soon.

Looks like you are a very good source for lionel info. I perused through many of your responses to other posts. Good to see that someone is willing to invest time to help out people.

I am planning a basement railroad. Sounds like you have a pretty sophisticated power and wiring setup. I plan on running mostly post-war, but would also like to leave the option open for running some of the new command stuff. Sounds like your'e doing this. I would appreciated any advice that you can offer regarding the best power / control sources. Also reference books for wiring.

Thanks in advance - really appreciate your time.
(Do you think we should start a new topic on this?)

--Ed

[Algonquin]

Hi Ed,

I added command control to my layout only about a year and a half ago. Prior to that, I was very satisfied to run my trains conventionally.

My layout has two main loops, a yard and several sidings. I insulate blocks at the center rails and route power from two postwar ZW transformers thru toggle switches. My control panel contains the ZWs, toggle switches, switch(turnout) and UCS track controllers. I use the outer rail as a control rail for operating signals and accessories.

I purchased several Lionel command engines prior to installing Lionel's Trainmaster Command Control System. At the time I felt the engines ran just fine with a conventional transformer. My local Lionel Service Station Owner finally convinced me to install the command system.

The installation was simple. One wire from the Lionel Command Base to the outer rail of the track was all it took. I installed a toggle switch in the line from the command base to the track so that I can operate in either command or conventional mode. I still power my layout with the postwar ZWs. I will eventually need more power as I continue to expand. So far, I have not invested in any of the new type transformers.

There has been a lot of discussion over the last year relative to the "newer" transformers. Problems have been identified with many of them. Some have dificulty operating the newer command engines, some generate significant enough voltage spikes that they can damage the circut boards on the newer engines. My recommendation would be to research this issue carefully before investing in a new transformer.

Relative to wiring books, Most hobby shops carry the basic Lionel layout starter books. They are also available on this site. Kalmbach also has a series of three books that specificaly address simple, intermediate and advanced wiring projects. However, the basic books cover most of the issues needed to get started planning your layout.

The best piece of information I received relative to wiring my layout was to make sure all my connections were solid. Finding shorts or breaks with hundreds of wires under a layout can be very difficult. I lugged each end of my wires and connected them in terminal blocks I got from Radioshack. I have never had any wiring problems.

Sorry I did not get back sooner. I was out of town this week.

Regards,

Tim Pignatari