New videos of my small Lionel Postwar 027 Layout

[dsmith]

My layout is 5' x 9' with a 2' x 5' addition.  Here are 3 new videos with lots of action in a small space.  There are 2 loops and a trolley line.  I can run up to 4 trains at a time (2 on each loop) using Lionels automatic stop function.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVtwPxwu3k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtOEyTIXi2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5OnJ8MH8UE

 

[Pennsylvania Station]

That's a wonderful layout with lots of action!!

 What type of "delay circuit" have you used to operate your Lionel trolley?

 Thanks.

 

[dsmith]

Here is a schematic of the timer circuit that I use so that the trolley stops at each end for a while.  This makes it more interesting than just bumping back and forth and less annoying on such a short run.

What the circuit doesn't show is that the "throttle output" is DC.  If you are using an AC transformer, use full wave bridge rectifier to convert your transformer output to DC.  Next use a section of isolated center rail track at each end of the run.  Connect the "track output" to the track.  Next use a section of isolated center rail track at each end of the run that is just long enough for the trolley to bump and stop.  Then connect a diode from the center rail that has power to the isolated track center rails, one diode at each end facing in opposite directions.  So here's how it works, the trolley travels down the track, when it bumps at the end, the DC current is in the wrong direction with the diode in the isolated rail, so the trolley bumps and stops.  When the timer activates the relay, the DC power is reversed and the trolley begins to move and travels to the opposite end where it bumps and stops, and waits for the timer to deactivate the relay.  This timer works with equal intervals of on and off.  Set the timer to operate on a longer delay than what it takes to travel from one end to the other, so let's say that it takes the trolley 20 seconds to travel from one end to the other and the timer is set for 60 seconds.  The trolley will then stop at each end for 40 seconds.

This timer circuit also works great with modern handcars and trolleys that use DC motors and don't have bumper switches to reverse.  You will have to open them up and remove the bridge rectifier and connect the DC motor directly to the track.  In this way they will reverse direction at each end just like the trolley.  I use a small microswitch together with a single diode so that I can switch between AC and DC operation.  This allows me to still use the handcar on my AC track. 

If any of this doesn't make sense, I'll be happy to explain further.

[Rickster]

 David,

 This is what 027 was meant to be!  Pure action and lots of fun!  Wow!  If you don't mind me asking, how do keep the MoPac AA and the 44 Tonner trains from running into each other and how do you keep the speed relatively steady going up and down the grades?

 Awesome!

 

Rick G, Mpls.

[dsmith]

Hi Rick, yes it's a fun layout.

Here's how I run 2 trains on 1 loop of track.  I used the Lionel multiple train operation idea.  The photo below shows how it's done.  I changed the circuit a little, instead of the 153C contactor, I use an insulated outside rail to activate a relay to cut the power to the insulated block section.  In the origional plan, the trains must have their E-units switched to forward only or the overtaking train will stay stopped on the insulated section as the E-unit looses power.  So I added a series of diode pairs to reduce the voltage to the insulated block so that the voltage is high enough to keep the E-unit activated but low enough to stop the motor of the engine.   A diode pair are 2 diodes in parallel that are facing in opposite direction.

If you are going up and down grade you must constantly adjust the transformer, and while this can be a fun challenge to keep the train going at a moderate speed throughtout, after a few minutes it becomes a chore since you can't for a moment sit back, relax and enjoy the layout.  So here's how I solved the problem.  I divided the layout into 3 blocks, upgrade, level and downgrade.  The transformer power runs directly to the upgrade block.  The level block receives power after passing through 1, 2 or 3 diode pairs, this reduces voltage slightly on the level areas of the layout.  The downgrade block then receives an additional 1, 2 or 3 diode pairs to reduce the voltage even further when going down.

If any of this still isn't clear, let me know and I'll add more detail.

[kpolak]

David:  Great videos!  I love the transfer table!  Thanks for putting these together.

Kurt

[Rickster]

 David,

 Thank you for the reply.  You are very generous with your time and knowledge.  Very clever in using the insulated rail and the relay, as well as the diodes.  I wondered why the Alco AAs were crawling along.  Now I know.  Thanks! 

 And cool transfer table too!

 

Rick

[Berk765]

Nice layout!!

[jms2222]

 I am glad to see that 44 tonner running its my favorite engine in the post war

[brianel027]

David, nice work! The second and third videos were a litttle shaper than the first, so more fun to watch. But a nice layout. And I understand what you've done... I run my layout on all DC current... everything. And the trains do run slower and with better speed consistancy.

I call it "poor man's speed control." Years ago it started as just as experiment, but I stuck with it and expanded the layout and altered equipment where necessary to run on DC the way I wanted things to work.

[Brutus]

Great layout and lots of action - love it! 

[Texas Pete]

  Pretty much what I think a toy train layout should be.  Very nice.

 

 

[submmbob]

 Wow! Great layout! Lot's of action there. What are the meters between the transformers and the switch controls for? They look like old Simpson meters. When I saw those, I started thinking "here's someone who likes playing w/ electronics". After reading a few of the other replies I knew this was the case. I am kind of transitioning from working on old radios to model trains, but I will probably always do some of both. It's been interesting as to how much of my radio repair equipment has been directly applicable to repairing the trains.

Bob

 

[dsmith]

Hi Bob,

There are 2 meters on each loop of track, one reads 0 - 4 amps and the other 10 - 20 volts.  The voltmeters were modified to be expanded scale voltmeters, that's why they don't read the 0 - 10 volt range.  They give a good account of the power flowing to each loop.  The fifth meter reads total 0 -- 10 total amps for all 4 transformers combined.  The old used meters were purchased on Ebay and are lower in price and higher in quality than new meters. 

[cnw1995]

Dang, this is a great layout and a very clever set-up. Thank you for sharing this great detail.

[stuartmit]

David--Great Layout!

 What do you figure that grade is, and what vintage cars (and, really, wheelsets)? Climbing seems real easy, and I always have trouble with that. How would you do with a single motor Alco like a 2033 UP, and 4 027 shorty passengers cars from the early 50's. Those are my challeneges--I have 4 of the UP anniversary sets, and I like to run 4 and 5 car trains but any one of the approraite  locos that I own  seem unequal to the task. Is it me--or is it them? Tried to keep my grades down to 21.2 pct.

[stuartmit]

Additional comment to that posted immediately above. My grades are probably more like 4pct, and I see yours are probably steeper than that--it looks like you have about 8 feet  of lineal "run" and about a half foot of rise judging from your video; thats 1 ft in 16feet which works out to 6 pct, so your trains are doing really well in my book, to climb so apparently effortlessly. I am using gargraves track--does that reduce the effect of magnetraction?

[dsmith]

I started with the standard Lionel graduated trestle set, so the elevation goes up 5" in 7 1/2' of travel.  As for pulling loads on the upgrade, I have lots of experience trying to maximize the number of cars that can be hauled.  Keep the track and wheels clean.  On postwar cars, lubricate wheels after every couple hours of run time and keep the wheels clean (most postwar cars that I have purchased have an incredible amount of crud on the wheels, it's hard to see but you can scrape it off with a sharp edge and then use goo gone to clean them).  I think that wheel crud can slow down a train just like lack of lubrication.  The more modern fastrack wheels shouldn't need lubrication and they don't seem to build up much crud either.  You can usually pull more modern cars upgrade compared to postwar because the needle bearings and fastrack wheels have less drag.  My diesel engines are 200 or 600 series engines with single or dual axle magnatraction.  I can tell the difference between single and dual magnatraction, the dual can pull a couple more cars than the single.  I don't know anything about gargraves but if the magnatraction sticks to the track it should work.  If the top of the rails of gargraves are flat, I would think magnatraction would work even better than tubular.  The 220 and 600 diesels are quite light and I have experimented with adding more weight over the drive wheels and have concluded that it does help traction, even going upgrade.  If you wat to pull a lot of cars going upgrade, use the lightest ones.  Some of the postwar operating cars wieigh twice as much as a light car.  In the video it looks like I'm pulling 4 postwar green passenger cars upgrade using a single 200 series Alco, but those are a modern Lionel reissue with fastrack wheels.  I have also pulled 17 cars upgrde by using 2 powered magnatraction diesels.  My 2018 steam engine has no magnatraction and it can still pull a fair load of 5 cars and caboose upgrade, I think that it is because all the weight it has in the cast metal shell. 

So going upgrade or downgrade can be a challenge, just like the real thing!

[RockIsland52]

David......as I have stated in the past, you have an exceptional layout.  The addition really adds to the action, as if more were possible.  Thank you for the video and the background.  Must say the video you posted a while back with the on board camera is still my favorite.

Jack

[Dave in Atlanta]

 Hi dsmith!

 You mentioned dropping the voltage to different blocks of track using "diode pairs".  Can you post a small schematic on how this is done?  

 I have up and down grades too and I can use this 'poor man's ' cruise control idea.

 Thanks!!!

 Dave

[dsmith]

Hi Dave, Here is how I control the voltage to differnet blocks on my elevated layout.  Use isolation pins to separate the layout into 3 blocks - UP, DOWN and LEVEL.  Bridge rectifiers are the easiest, least expensive and most reliable way of dropping the voltage.  Bridge rectifiers contain 4 diodes and if you wire them as in the diagram there will be a 1.2 volt drop across each bridge.  So in this diagram the UP block will receive full voltage, LEVEL will receive 1.2 volts less and DOWN will receive 2.4 volts less.  By adding or subtracting bridges, you can control how fast or slow the train is going in that block.  If you need further clarification, let me know.  You can find bridge rectifiers at All Electronics or Radio Shack.  Here is a link to 6 amp bridge rectifiers from All Electronics for 85 cents.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/FWB-64/6-AMP-400-VOLT-BRIDGE-RECTIFIER/-/1.html

[lionelsoni]

A big advantage of the scheme that David has described, to my mind, is that it doesn't involve unsafe shorting together of transformer outputs as the train crosses the gaps.

You can save on rectifier modules by using a single string and tapping into it at different points for the various voltage drops you need.  For example, the voltage for David's level block could have been tapped from a point between the two modules that he shows for the down block.  For a finer adjustment, you can use the point where the + and - terminals of each rectifier are connected together as a half step.

The voltage drop that this scheme produces is about 90 percent of the forward voltage of each diode, multiplied by the number of diode pairs in series.

[perry1060]

David,

That's a really cool layout and lots of fun to watch! Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed that!

[dmestan]

David, do you happen to have part numbers for the re-issue green passenger cars?

thx, Don

[dsmith]

Don, I have the 4 green reissued Lionel passenger cars but not the gray steam engine from the set, so I repainted a 202 postwar Alco to the approximate paint scheme of the cars.  Here is information on the whole set.  Lionel 11712 Great Lakes Express Steam Passenger Train set. This was the Service Station Special (SSS) set from 1990 that was only sold to service stations, not the regular dealer network. This is an interesting set since with the passenger cars having the same green and gray paint scheme as the 2400, 2401, and 2404 postwar passenger cars. This one comes with a #8611 Locomotive and Tender, and four passenger cars: #16028 Detroit, #16029 Lansing, #16030 Chesterfield, and #16027 Mt. Clemens.

 

 

I changed the lighting in the cars by switching to 2 superbright white LED's in each car.  I also added an electrolytic capacitor across the LED's so that the light is always steady, even when going across switches.  Each car has dual electrical pickups and I removed one of them because only one is needed with electrolytic capacitor in place.  Since LED's tend to be very directional, here is what I did.  I used the same sockets that the 2 lamps were origionally plugged into and aimed the LED's straight up.  On the roof of the car I glued white cardboard to reflect the light downward.  This also allowed the light to be dispersed fairly evenly throughout the interior.  Since regular white LED's have a harsh bluish tint, I solved this by placing thin cardboard on the bottom of the interior that was printed out on my inkjet printer with a orange/yellow color.  The result was a nice yellowish regular lamp color.

[Bob.M]

 David: I am a little late in commenting, but I am quite impressed with that layout. Your explanations of how you controll the speed are excellent. I am an electrical engineer, and am impressed whith what you have done. I saved the links to your videos, and intend to steal some of your ideas. I really can not tell from the video, but it looks like the climb up is less steep than the descent. Is that correct? Whether it is or not, I will probably use that feature on next year's redesign.

[Dave in Atlanta]

 Hi dsmith! 

Thanks for posting that circuit diagram on dropping the voltage to certain blocks.

 One more favor, ...can you also post a diagram for the constant lighting circuit you are using for your passenger cars?   I have a 6 passenger car Amtrak train that I would like to modify.

Much appreciated!

 Dave

PS - Here is video of my 027 layout.  You will have to copy n paste.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hluVBr7q1_E