I am headed to another train show tomorrow. I am looking for some 153 and 253 Block Signals. My question is: Must the seller sell his 153 block signals with the contactors? Because I have seen seller with the 153 block signals, but no 153C contactor. If you do not have the 153C contactor then you cannot even operate the 153 block signals. It must be a given that the price includes the 153C contactor. Must people will pass up on signals that do not have the contactor. Looking for contactors is a pain. For example, a 153 block signal should be priced at $35 with contactor, or even $40 for a nice one with box. Samething goes for the 252 crossing gate and 151 semaphore. Thanks.
The seller is certainly free to sell it without the contactor; the buyer is likewise under no obligation to buy it that way. But you might want to consider buying a 153 without the 153C, since there is a simple and reliable non-mechanical way to operate it directly from a control rail. I have described it many times on the forum, but I don't mind doing it again if there is any interest.
Bob Nelson
Would you use insulated track sections? Not sure how it would all work without a 153C contactor. Is your way also used for 252, 151, 154 and any other accessory that used contactors?? I will try to look for your non-mechanical way to operate it directly. Which post is it in? Thanks.
Don't bother searching--here it is: Connect the green-lamp terminal to the layout common (the outside rails). Connect the red-lamp terminal to the center rail (or to an accessory voltage supply that is returned to the layout common, if you prefer). Connect the 153's common to the control rail, which is an insulated length of outside rail. Finally, wire an additional lamp in parallel with the 153's red lamp, that is, between the 153's common and the red-lamp terminal.
If the 153 uses 14-volt number-53 bayonet lamps, use a number 57 for the additional lamp. Otherwise, let me know what you have so I can recommend something else.
(There was an error in this post, which I have corrected.)
Sounds like alot of work. Maybe I should just make sure I have enough 153C contactors. But, I know the 151 and 252's can use lockons on insulated track pieces to make them operate, thus not needing a contactor. I have a book that shows how to wire them up using the lockons. 153 are a little more complicated and can do it your way or with the 153C contactor. I will be home from show around 2:00PM and tell you guys what I picked up. Then maybe I will have more questions about the stuff I buy. Looking for another Z, 153's, 151's, 253's and a 3469 & 3461. Then at York, just more of the signals and some 71 lamp posts. Maybe even some standard gauge switches and freight cars. Thanks and I hope I find the stuff tomorrow at the smaller show. York I know I will find everything on my list.
Parts: Third lamp and track with insulated control rail versus 153C contactorWiring: 5 wires with the lamp versus 4 wires with the 153CMaintenance: Replacing the third lamp if it burns out versus adjusting the 153C
Mr. Nelson recommended the extra lamp method to me a month or so ago. Had I not already had a relay to control the signal, I likely would have used his circuit.
A lamp socket and lamp at Radio Shack would be about four dollars. That's cheaper than a 153c and far cheaper than the relay I'll be using. Only extra cost would be for a minimal amount of wire, and an insulated rail section if you're using tubular track (I think all other types either already are insulated rails, or can either be made into them at no cost).
Even if you have the 153c contactors, the $4 would save you a lot of frustration. I was always tinkering with that thumbscrew before I decided to go the insulated rail method. And yes, you can use the insulated rail for most of the other signals Lionel made. Most of the other ones don't require the extra bulb though.
Here's a link to some more thoughts on insulated rails to control signals:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/145868.aspx?PageIndex=1
Hope this helps,
J White
Lionel2: I use 2 insulated (homemade) track sections. These are easy and quick to make. One for the green & one for the red. What I mean by the colors is to take the green light terminal wire and attach(solder) to the ins track and the same for the red light terminal. The 3dr terminal goes to the transformer acc. for power. I install the green track about a train length before the signal and the red track the same after the signal. This simulates "real trains" a little bit. This is just another way to do this. IMO, the ins track is more reliable than the contactors.
Ok, I am back from train show. Got a few things. I got: a 252 crossing gate, (2) 153 block signals, (4) 154 highway signals, and a 3469 and 3461 dump cars. Got a few questions. the 252, when the train goes across the contactor, the gate does not get a chance to go down all the way, how do I fix this? I am using a 153C contactor. The 153 block signals, should the red light be on top or on bottom of the signal?? And the light is green, but when the train goes ver the 153C contactor it turns red only for an instant, how do I make it red for a little bit longer? And the 154 highway signals, the bulbs all work, but, I do not have a on/off flashing effect, I use the 154C contactors, how do I fix this? That is all. Oh yeah, I got (6) 71 lamp posts, just got done rewiring some of them, they work great now. Thanks.
Lionel always put the green light on the bottom, which is correct for street traffic signals but backwards for railroads. You can do it which ever way you like, swapping the 153's terminals along with the lamps.
Short of a bunch of electronics, you will probably have to get more 153C contactors to extend the time the signal is red. With a control rail, the solution is simple--use a longer control rail
The alternation of the 154's lights is flaky at best and not very realistic. Each lamp should come on when a wheel is on the half of the plate that is wired to that lamp. When there is no truck in the vicinity of the plates, both lights will be off.
Because one of my block signals has the green light on top, How do I wire it the right way?
Guess I will have to do a control rail for those Crossing Gates.
As for the 154's, Yes, that is what they do when my loco goes over the contactors, so I guess they are okay then. Might wanna try to find another way to wire them up. I will check my books and stuff for other ways. I think it said I could use insulated track sections with lockons, instead of the contactors, or maybe that was for the 252's. I will have to check. Thanks.
For the 153 with the green lamp on top, Do I switch the bulbs and unsolder the 2 wires and switch them??
Some of my lamp bulbs on my 154's and 153's are flaking, can I use red or green nail polish to color them again?? Just dip them into the red or green nail polish and I should be okay?? Thanks.
Which is "the right way" depends on whether you want to be prototypical or authentic. There is no need to change the signal's wiring in any way. Put the lamps in whichever way you want them, then wire to the outer two terminals whichever way makes the lights work the way you want.
Use insulated track pieces. They are much more consistant. Use them for all the signals and gates. You'll be happier. And...The polish will work or just some touch up paint for those bulbs.
Would model paint work just fine?? Like paint for model cars? That will not burn off will it?? Thanks.
Well, I decided not to use model paint, or to paint them at all. When the bulbs burn out, I will order more. Thanks.
Hi, just got back from a long vacation and read your thoughts on the 153C contactor. I have very successfully been using the 153C contactors and 153 signals with my K-Line Super-Snap track. I don't have any problems with them coming loose, my track is screwed down before and after the area of the contactor and perhaps its the built in ties in the track that keeps the contactor in place but none the less all signals are still working just fine.You might want to check out e-bay for any 153 signals and contactors, the prices even via the "Buy It Now " feature, ( no bidding ) might be less than what you are paying elsewhere. It's always been my expirence that when you purchase a 153, a 153C contactor is part of it. Good luck!
Yeah, I was able to get my hands on 2 of the 153's with contactors. I also got: 4 switches for my standard gauge trains, 252's, 253's, and another Z transformer. I know have (4) Z's, 1 KW and 1 ZW. I think that should be plenty to power my O gauge trains for next xmas. Note: I added an elevated section loop of track to my layout and all these little accessories, so i need more power to run all of it. Just hope running 6 transformers does not blow my house fuse. Its a 15 amp fuse and the outlet is rated at about 1800 watts roughly. I think. Its a 3 prong, updated like 15 years ago with all new wiring and all that. But, i rarely run 4 trains at one time or operate all my accessories at one time. So I really just use 1 transformer at a time, but they all will be on at the same time though. yeah, the block signals are nice, hope my family likes the look of them. My standard layout is bare. I have nothing on the layout at all, just track and switches, and my engines and cars, thats all. No house, too expensive, no signals or none of that. Yeah, i have 4 bumpers that light up. Just cant dish out 200 for a building. Yeah, they are to scale somewhat and look and match right, but are too much to pay. Maybe later i will get that setup when i got the money. I love standard trains, big they are hard to fix and very old. I am lucky my 3 locos work just fine. Thanks.
It's very difficult to overload a residential branch circuit with a train layout. The current that your transformers draw from the outlet is (very roughly) one-tenth what the trains and accessories themselves draw from the transformers.
Yeah, that is very true. I guess I have nothing to worry about. But, the thing that worries me is on that circuit I have the coffee maker and microwave on that line to the fuse box. I use those appliances all the time. And i cannot run the microwave and have the coffee maker on at the same time or it blows the fuse and I have to switch it back on in the fuse box in cellar. And I have the computer hooked to that line as well. But, when i set up my layout, i have the computer at a different location and different line on the fuse panel. So with all my transformers on, and the coffee maker and microwave on, will I be fine?? I wanna be able to make coffee and run microwave at the same time. Even when train is running. Guess I might have to do some rewiring of the fuse box and make a seperate line where I plug in all my trains. Thanks.
You'll just have to add up the currents that the various loads draw and group things on different branch circuits so that no one is overloaded. There should be enough information on your computer components', microwave oven's, and coffee maker's name plates to figure their draw. (If it's given in watts or volt-amperes, divide the number by 120 to get amperes.) As for the trains, I'll bet the whole affair doesn't draw more than 5 amperes.
All of this is very interesting but a bit confusing. Is there a book that covers control tracks, insulated tracks and how they are interelated with block signals and crossing gates etc. I found two on the web site:
Normal 0
Wiring Your Toy Train Layout By Peter H. Riddle
Wiring Handbook for Toy Trains By Ray L. Plummer
Both seem to be pretty basic. Is one better than the other and cover the topics discussed here?
Thanks,
Terry
Terry Thomann Fredericksburg, Virginia That is me on the left. My brother got the train TCA 09-64381
I have the first book you mentioned. But, it does not go in depth with block signals that much. I am still looking for better books on blocks and signals. Thanks.
I have studied all of these posts, but being a complete newbie at this I don't understand all the terms you are all using. Not sure how to insulate a rail or make a control track (is there a difference). I get the connections, but not sure what you are doing to the track. are you using fiber pins, and which rails get the pins. Are you removing a rail and inserting insulating material between the rail and the tie? How does this work with a flashing signal? I have a couple places where I have two or three rails at a crossing and like the idea of not needing a bunch of contactors.
Thanks much.
A control rail is simply a piece of an outside rail that is insulated from the outside rails generally. When a train passes over it, the train's wheels and axles connect the control rail to the other outside rails, acting as an electrical switch. The track is normally wired to the transformer so that the outside rails generally are the layout and transformer common. This way, the switch formed by the control rail has one side intrinsically connected to that common. This keeps the circuit being controlled by the control rail from interacting with the track voltage.
You can make your own control rail by cutting or leaving gaps at each end of the control rail, so that it doesn't connect to the rest of the outside rail until a train comes by. You can put plastic pins in the gaps or just leave them open, as I do. You may also need to insulate it from the metal ties with, for example, card stock, if you are using traditional tubular rail. You can buy special track sections that are already insulated.
You can connect multiple control rails on different tracks together and use them all to operate a single accessory.
Aside from not needing to be adjusted, control rails have the advantage that you can make them as long as you want, so that a crossing gate, for example, goes down well before the train arrives.
Flashing crossing signals can be done two ways. Lionel made a special contactor, the 154C, which has two "contact plates" that sit on top of and are insulated from an intact outside rail. As the wheels roll over the plates, they alternately flash the two red lights, but in a very irregular and unrealistic way. The other way is to use a control rail (or a regular 145C or 153C contactor) to turn on a (probably electronic) flasher circuit that does flash the lights in a prototypical pattern.
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