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Fastrack and Gargraves track are very good choices, both with their own merits. I have seen a lot of Gargraves track with Ross switches.
If you do a search on Fastrack, Gargraves or track you will find interesting discussions.
Lionel Post War and new ZW transformers, as well as powermaster power supplies seem to be the norm. If you want to run conventional engine with your remote, a Lionel TPC is required.
Again transformers have been discussed here as well. Do a search on transformers.
Kurt
One important note ... many users have had bad interference problems with older transformers using them with the tmcc and probably legacy controllers . The older transformers do not filter the sine waves very well ... the newer models do . I'd recommend a newer model like the MTH Z4000 or the lionel ZW Powerhouse only ..... never the older model ZW's for legacy or tmcc .
Wes, I don't understand your comment. Aside from the question of what it means to "filter the sine waves", some modern "transformers" do not even put out sine waves at all.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni Wes, I don't understand your comment. Aside from the question of what it means to "filter the sine waves", some modern "transformers" do not even put out sine waves at all.
I'm not talking newer transformers ... the older ones put out spurious transmissions of waves that interfere with the new digital controllers . Most of those older Lionel .... ZW and other models of that vintage ... etc. transformers will screw up tmcc and legacy controls . NO the newer ones filter them ..... did you read what I said ..... newer only don't interfere ... never said they did . The models I specified are ONLY newer ! I was just advising NOT to buy an older model ..... and if you're going to buy a new one might as well get one big enough to handle many future upgrades . If one is going to spend big bucks on legacy engines and the legacy control system .... why skrimp on the power supply ?
Ole TimerOne important note ... many users have had bad interference problems with older transformers using them with the tmcc and probably legacy controllers ...
One important note ... many users have had bad interference problems with older transformers using them with the tmcc and probably legacy controllers ...
This is the very first I've heard of this... any first hand testimony?
Ole Timer...The older transformers do not filter the sine waves very well ... the newer models do ...
No, they don't. The PowerHouse bricks, all 80, 135 & 180 models, as well as MTH bricks, are pure sine wave outputs just like the old Z, V, ZW, VW, KW, & all Lionel AC transformers made before the MW.
Ole Timer...I'd recommend a newer model like the MTH Z4000 or the lionel ZW Powerhouse only ..... never the older model ZW's for legacy or tmcc .
The MTH Z4000 is also a pure sine wave unit.
I have no idea what you mean by the position that you want to "filter the sine waves", but in reality, you want a pure sine wave power supply for TMCC, making many early transformers, especially the Z, V, ZW, VW, & KW excellent, if not preferred, choices for power.
Rob
Ole TimerI'm not talking newer transformers ... the older ones put out spurious transmissions of waves that interfere with the new digital controllers .
I'm not talking newer transformers ... the older ones put out spurious transmissions of waves that interfere with the new digital controllers .
Are you talking about shielding? Just move the TMCC components a foot or two away from the transformer. Problem(that I've never heard of before) solved.
wrightwood7Hello--sorry if this has been discussed too much already, but I'm getting back into the hobby and need some advice on what track (Fastrack or Gargraves) and power supplies to purchase. I will be running Lionel Legacy and conventional engines. Any advice from all of you on your recommendations and experiences would be helpful. Thanks
Wrightwood - BEFORE you take the plunge, you might want to consider;
- Legacy and Conventional, a great offering! When I got back in the hobby I didn't know that MTH even exsisted. You might want to just look. Summary: Lionel's Legacy system will provide operating capability for Legacy and Conventional Lionel engine. IF you were going to add a MTH DCS engine, you WOULD have purchase the DCS system. IF you had DCS you can run Legacy (not every feature, but most), conventional and DCS. Not trying to confuse but just inform.
Nevertheless, assuming your staying with Lionel and Conventional, Legacy is a great way to go! You still will be able to look at rolling stock from anyone.
Transformers: I have the new ZW Controller, I'm very satisfied with it, did have to instal an upgrade. I really liked its appearance, very similiar to the "old" ZW. However, based upon an informal survey of club layouts, and large layouts. I have found the majority use the MTH Z4000. The biggest advantage I see is the volt and amp indicators. It has 2 throtles as compared to 4 on the ZW.
Track: Fasttrack has gone up a little in price recently, it is a very good track system. Some are concerned about it being noisey. The Gargraves with Ross switches, looks a little more realistic in my opinion, and is a lot easier to cut and make special sections, and is more forgiving when doing a layout. The Ross switches are extremely reliable and offer a very large compliment of configurations. If your at ground zero, seriously look at the later, especially if your going to do a very complex or big layout. Fastrack is definetly better if you were going to do a Christmas tree circuit in my opinion. Also I think you will find the Ross switches less expensive.
Good to see you here, come back often.
Don
Wes, I understand that your position is: new transformers--good, old transformers--bad. I just don't see any coherent argument that this is true. The "spurious transmissions of waves that interfere" is news to me. I suspect that any transformer or "transformer" that puts out a reasonable facsimile of a sine wave will be satisfactory. The only "transformers" I know that don't do that are some of the modern ones, those that use phase control.
I've been using a ZW to power my layout for over ten years with Tmcc, added Legacy last year and Dcs and I have no problems.
Bill
I thought that's what i said .... duhhhhh ..... the newer lionel powerhouse zw's with the bricks and the MTH Z4000'S put out pure .... the older ZW's and vintage of post war and before DO NOT . I said don't buy the older versions ..... take it for what it's worth .... those old transformers can give you headaches with the new components . I don't have time to search for links .... if you're going legacy ...... buy a modern transformer ! Why ask for trouble .... why anyone would buy an antiquated transformer for a modern setup would be beyond me . MTH has the purest sine wave .... even beyond the newest ZW's .... plus a full digital readout on ALL functions and a built in cooling fan lionel never added .... high end breakers .... all in 1 unit without a bunch of bricks and wiring cluttering up the area . He's talking buying a new complete setup .... not adding on to an old one . The NEW model ZW Powerhouse controller .... no internal transformers ... with the addon bricks give you options of adding up to 4 bricks ..... not recommended to add more than 4 .... for power needs .... but only come with 2 and 2 more have to be purchased seperately . If you want noise in your sounds and other problems buy an old model ZW ! They're both top end power units .... the newer models .... and I recommend either . I personally use the MTH Z4000 . I guess Lionel and MTH wasted all that research and assebly producing transformers with pure sine for nothing ..... go figger .... LOL .
I think enough has been said.
I use tpc's 400, that way I can run command or conventional with the legacy at any given time.
Ole Timer.... the older ZW's and vintage of post war and before DO NOT ...
.... the older ZW's and vintage of post war and before DO NOT ...
This is an entirely false statement.
Ole Timer...MTH has the purest sine wave .... even beyond the newest ZW's ....
The Z4000 is pure sine wave, but the "newest ZW's" are not sine wave outputs at all, only the bricks are, and they are pure sine wave. There is no "Purity Test" to compare the two. The Z4000 is limited to 360 watts pure sine wave for track power, the ZW 720 watts(phase controlled) max to the track.
In a nutshell, go ahead & power your PM-1 PowerMasters, TPC's, & "New" ZW channels with older transformers if you have them. This was and is Lionel's designed intention and it all works as designed.
They all play well together, there is no mutual exclusion.
Option A will run all TMCC locos without the TPC. All you need is power(PowerHouse or old ZW - see link below) & the Legacy command set.
Option B will also run all TMCC locos without the TPC, and will allow you to run conventional trains from the ZW when desired in conventional mode.
To run conventional trains with the remote, in conventional mode, you can use the ZW(with it's PowerHouse bricks), a PowerMaster(with PowerHouse brick(s)), or a TPC(with PowerHouse brick(s)) in conjunction with a Legacy base & Cab-2. Look HERE for details from Lionel.
If I were you and buying all the latest I'd go with 400's .... a powerhouse zw .... or the MTH Z4000. Those old zw's are not pure sine . When I say powerhouse zw ... I mean with the bricks .... it does'nt work without any ... it's just a dummy controller and no transformers . Outside of a replacement unit ... you can't buy a zw powerhouse retail without them so that statement is stupid . You're telling that man to use an old antiquated z transformer from 1940's or 1950's ? . He does'nt have a zw ... number one .... and why would he buy an outdated unit ? Buy the latest since you have that option .... don't be talked into outdated components because someone else is stuck with one ... or a bunch of small ones all wired together .
Lots of good choices out there and everyone has their preferance. I used Gargraves track and switches and it is generally pretty reliable stuff but does require some planning and patience for it to operate smoothly. Looks good though. I really wish I had the money at the time to use all fastrack especially the switches. Easy to setup and is very forgiving if use are using multi levels with inclines and uneven surfaces. The switches in my opinion are flawless. They are expensive but extremely smooth. I wish now I had saved up the money and went all fastrack. Don't get me wrong, the gargraves switches work fine for me now but I spent days laying track and alligning switch motors to get them to work just right. I'm more of an operator and get no enjoyment laying down trackwork and wiring. I just wanted to run my trains. I don't know which category you fall into but if money is not an issue you can't go wrong with fastrack. As far as power goes I use a 1946 Z transformer. It might be over 60yrs old but it runs perfect. I use TMCC/command base and 3 PM-1s to run conventional, TMCC and Legacy. I don't know much about sine wave interferance as noted by another post but I have had no problems for the last year. The Z puts out 250 watts and over 26 volts on each of its 4 channels. I have to back them down below 18 volts to avoid damage to the TMCC system and locos. Good luck.
STEVE
I use mainly GarGraves track and like it the best compared to other track systems. One advantage is that I can replace a switch motor without taking up the switch(same with Ross), second advantage is I can cut & fit GarGraves track better than Fastrac.
Fastrac is too expensive for me to consider doing a layout with, and a pair of Fastrac switches cost about $120.00 at my local hobby shop. Also with Fastrac you will need to buy fitter pieces that cost as much as a full ten inch section of track. I did a small loop with Fastrac and it was very expensive because I did a modified oval on one side.
For me I am staying with tubular and GarGraves track.
Atlas is nice but expensive as well, and their switches use up a lot of room on a layout.
For transformers I am using post war stuff mainly with external circuit breakers and two new transformers for my newer stuff.
Lee F.
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