I want to make all train sellers aware of this potentially dangerous new PayPal policy that opens the door for fraud for small sellers.
Every once in a while I'll use eBay to buy hard to find Postwar Lionel items, and sell some trains I no longer need. As a small Lionel seller on eBay for 5 years (less than 100 feedback rating but 100% positive), I want to alert others in a similar situation to be very cautious of PayPal's "frozen fund" policy for which I have just fallen for.
I recently sold $3000 in Lionel trains, all buyers paid with PayPal, and because I do not have more than 100 positive feedback, PayPal has frozen the funds. I was instructed by PayPal to send the tracking information directly to them at the time of the sale, which I did, and they will unfreeze the funds when either the item is received by the buyer, or they leave positive feedback, or 21 business days have passed.
Several of my items were delivered, and guess what... the funds are still frozen!!!! PayPal states that even though I gave them proof that the items were delivered, that does not mean that the seller necessarily received it as UPS just left items at the door unsigned (even though I paid extra to have a signature required). I have to also wait for the buyer to leave me positive feedback!!! Or, if they do not leave feedback, I have to wait 21 business days to get my money. In theory, one of my buyers could claim they never got the train even though the UPS tracking states it was delivered, and the money would be refunded, and I would be out the train and the money.
While eBay has in many ways helped the hobby and helped me buy trains that I thought I'd never find, this has forever damaged my trust of online auctions as a smalltime seller. This policy is intended to help bigtime seller, but leaves us little traders who just sell to be able to buy other things, in trouble.
I just want to let others know my experience, make an informed decision before you decide to sell as you can potentially lose a lot!!!
Ebay and Paypal seem to be evolving more and more into that "Big Brother 1984" figure we don't like to think about.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Though I agree that paypal should drop the bar a bit regarding the positive feedbacks required for instant unfreezing, I can imagine the reason why they changed their policy.
I'm speaking german ebay now. A gentleman listing a very expensive 0 gauge model, has 27 positive feedbacks and the buyers start bidding very promptly and fast. Bids raise 'till several 1000 euro's days before end of auction. Until another ebayadvert arises with the same title, so a search for this item shows both adverts.
This man, several 100's positive feedback, trainseller, but not active the past few months due to illness, states that the advert of the expensive train is a hoax, since it's a copy of his advert a few years ago. Text and photo's are identical. Ebay removed his advert within hours, but it gave me a hint of looking at the feedbacks of the seller. Those 27 positives where on some small things, toycars, lego etc. and the account was not used over 2 years.
Eventually this item did not sell because ebay blocked it, but it shows how carefull one must be with internet sales. Because of the harsh financial situations some are in at the moment, fraud is one of the bigger risks now and this fraud is much more likely to come from small sellers then from the bigger ones. Paypal however guarantees money back if the item doesn't show up or if it's a fraud, so they need to back themselves up, probably because they experience that a lot more items are not delivered resulting in a lot more claims for money back.
As a buyer, I'm not thinking to pay without paypal, because copying an advert, or stealing some photo's on the i-net and fake an advert is very easily done and can give the buyer the same situation as the seller in your case namely ; no money, no item.
So you can get your money if you show tracking with positive feedback or 21 days no returnclaim, you could also opt to not accepting bidders with no feedback to give frauds a smaller chance and simply always ship insured, tracked and delivered with autograph. That way, if someone claims non deliverance, you can claim insurance or testify fraud by showing the autograph to paypal/ebay.
I on my hand know that if I buy something and the seller doesn't actually have something to sell or the item is not in the condition he claimed it to be, I can get my money back. That is a huge + for a buyer and is one of the reasons I still buy most trains in America via ebay. Paypal offers me the same amount of guarantee as a credit card without the efforts and costs.
I don't like the "big brother 1984" remark above, because this has nothing to do with controlling the users of ebay; it's a safetybuffer for paypal itself probably because the changing market behaviour needs them to do so. If you need someone to blame, most certainly you need to point to some small sellers being not so honest and instantly plunder their paypal account after an item is paid for without shipping the item. Paypal then has to refund the fraud from their own funds and that is what they obviously are trying to reduce now.
Boyd Ebay and Paypal seem to be evolving more and more into that "Big Brother 1984" figure we don't like to think about.
You do know E-bay owns PayPal ?
I think this whole deal about E-bay going to require folks to use PayPal to buy from E-bay ,crazy !
Collin ,operator of the " Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R."
daanI don't like the "big brother 1984" remark above, because this has nothing to do with controlling the users of ebay; it's a safetybuffer for paypal itself probably because the changing market behaviour needs them to do so. If you need someone to blame, most certainly you need to point to some small sellers being not so honest and instantly plunder their paypal account after an item is paid for without shipping the item. Paypal then has to refund the fraud from their own funds and that is what they obviously are trying to reduce now
Same response as my above comment,Ebay owns PayPal.Ask yorself if that's not "controlling".Now grant E-bay owns the site and I guess people don't have to use the service.But a buddy of mine had a great idea.You shouldn't have to pay to use PayPal or E-bay if they own both.To pay for E-bay services I see.But to pay for the PayPal when E-bay owns it I don't.
And if you send a USPS money order in the mail and don't get your item,it's mail fraud.PayPal can't provide that kind of protection.
Both sides please...
i just bought something on ebay...2 bumpers...i mis-counted sidings and needed 2 more....didn't look closely enough at the listing, as this seller had snuck-in[sp?] pay by check or MO only just before the October deadline. so i had to send a check. when asked about status, he only goes to po 1 per week because of gas prices. Well, you can guess, wait a second week for him to pick up the check, wait a week for him to return to deposit it, wait a week for it to clear, wait a week for him to post the item [well packed i might say]....5 weeks later it arrives. Paypal saves all that nonsense, and gas.
You know about the funds freezing before you list or you did not read all of the info.... Ebay and paypal revolutionized flea-markets....They have problems, they attract scammers and like like everything else, take the bad with the good and always ....Caveat Emptor
ralph
Just completed a purchase on eBay, paid thru PayPal, and picked-up locally. No shipping, no tracking.
Sellers please inform your buyers of this PayPal holding in your auctions. I didn't know about it.
The recent seller and I had excellent communication, and informed me of this 'holding', so I posted positive feedback as soon as I heard.
Kurt
Since ebay instituted this payment by paypal only policy, I have stopped using ebay for purchases, only for a reference source. I will only pay with a money order- if the seller can't accept that I'll simply do without. I have noticed that many sellers still list money orders as an accepted method of payment- why do they do this?
Add me to the list of folks who have been very, very dissatisfied with the direction Ebay has been going lately. If you read the Ebay seller central board, you'll see that there are lots of folks who feel the same way. In particular, it really bothers me that Ebay-Paypal now has a mandatory double dip into your sale price, between final value fees and Paypal fees. I also don't like sellers not being able to leave negative feedback(sorry, but non-paying bidders deserve it), and the fact that low detailed seller ratings can now get you kicked off Ebay.
In any case, regarding the new Paypal only policy:
Sellers are not permitted to solicit or even vaguely reference any payment method other than Paypal. This isn't being strictly enforced until January, however it can still get your listing pulled if someone reports you. By the way, stating "e-mail me with any questions about payment" can get a listing pulled under the new policy.
With that said, however, as a buyer, you ARE permitted to ask the seller if they will accept a check or money order. Provided that the buyer initiates the request, the seller is permitted to accept any alternative payment method.
So, for anyone who won't use Paypal, I would suggest e-mailing the seller and asking if they will accept your preferred payment method.
That does suck. We can half blame the morons who post foggy pictures of junk, overgrade it, and blame the shipper for putting the scratches on the item. I never buy from these morons but there are some unfortunate people who did.
Same goes for feedback. I have recieved several items with notes that read "please leave posative feedback for me and I will do the same for you". As a result, ebay no longer allows negative feedback on buyers.
Bob Keller
I have been listing many items lately on Ebay and it always has a box to check for money order and personal check. I am not violating any rules if Ebay still has it listed. I have never had Paypal hold any of my money. It goes straight through and I get it immediately.
Tran Rat
Me I'm a buyer only, so I can only say from my side of the fence that most sellers are great but I would bet the biggest complaint PP receives is for long waits after the sale. I have had to do that several times myself to get sellers to ship my purchase. If a seller is paid shortly after the sale that person should ship in a timely manor. So like so many other things a few spoil it for all. I have also not received feedback from sellers even though they had no reason not to. So a lot of changes have been brought on by the way sellers conduct their sale. And over time I have read many complaints from sellers so I guess the blame can be shared by all.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
I posted this simply to inform each of you that use eBay to "trade" trains, sell old ones for different ones, (such as I do) that PayPal has in fact instituted this policy in case you have missed it. I'm not a dealer with thousands of feedback, I'm just a collector like many of you.
I've been a user since 2001, 100% feedback, always listed my club membership numbers on the auctions, have full 5 star rating, and still had funds frozen because I only have 65 transactions under my belt.
Personally, I never liked accepting PayPal but started taking it after a few buyers told me that they would not be able to pay me otherwise as they needed to use credit cards...
I'm not upset with PayPal for having done this, as they are only trying to prevent fraud, the true criminals are those that abused the system and turned it into what it is now...
Trading trains on eBay is just not worth the new scrutiny in my opinion.
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