anotherone bites the dust on the other Forum

[FJ and G]

Alton,

It seems like you have some sort of issue or vendetta with me. I don't know what your problem is but you are starting to remind me of a tick that I had to pull off my dog the other day.

Also, you seem to derive immense pleasure from tracking my movements around the forum and attacking me. Why don't you take your toys and go on home now.

If you don't know what I mean, go back and look at some of the rubbish you've been writing about me. I hope you don't have some kind of a thing for me.

[Anonymous]

For those who suggest raising the price of a subscription to OGR to pay for posting to the forum, have you an answer for the subscriber who doesn't ever use the forum when he grumbles about paying for YOUR fun? If they are going to charge then charge the ones who use the service. Odd-d

[jkerklo]

Odd-D,

Apologies. My statement in a previous post was not quite clear.

I would have found a subscription increase more acceptable that an outright forum fee. But whether or not I would have renewed my magazine subscription is not considered. I would have concerns, even though I like the magazine.

Even a forum fee for those who did not subscribe to the magazine would have detrimental effects, although it might take longer to take effect.

Generally, I think that any attempt to obtain direct revenue from a web site that supports a company and its products is not likely to succeed. The company should be using the web site to promote its products and gather information useful to product development. If it isn't, then something's wrong.

There are web sites that I have paid for. For example, business information sites. But these have data that I use in my consulting practice and can well justify as a business expense.

There are other ways to gain revenue from a web site, or forum. Magazines are an advertising business. CTT lists google selected advertising, selected by copy content, in the right hand column of their screen. They get paid for it.
I even like the ads; they can be informative. Much more creative than a subscription fee.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

Odd-D,

True..True.

[Anonymous]

What is the motivation for bringing this topic up here? Thanks for keeping us posted about what is going on with the OGR Forum but anyone can go to the OGR forum to see for themselves. Some of us CHOOSE not to. Somehow the OGR forum gets dragged here anyway in various posts in the form of "my forum is better than your forum" and bashing. I'd wi***he words "OGR forum" were put in the automatic eject from this forum. I realize that I can skip over topics so labled, but this stuff is showing up subtly in regular topics as well and detracting from the spirit of the forum. Incredibly, these topics seem to gain the most views.

[spodwo]

QUOTE: Somehow the OGR forum gets dragged here anyway in various posts in the form of "my forum is better than your forum" and bashing.

Which diminishes this forum and more often than most., makes it a place for people to trash consistently about the other forum. It's as if there is nothing better to talk about than OGR here. In short, it appears that CTT [the mighty Kalmbach] supports negative advertising against a smaller competitor by it's lack of monitoring [or caring for that matter].

And you certainly can drag the individual posters here through the mud as noted in numerous posts....

[drjohn691]

The deletion of posts on the OGR forum was nonsense. Rich can have his beloved forum. I also cancelled my OGR subscription and had a refund check sent to me. Too much "lean" towards certain companies and deletions of reasonable and fair posts. Thank God for CTT![}:)]

[Anonymous]

OGR=[censored]

[alton6]

David,

I'm sorry. I really wasn't trying to provoke you. I was just kidding. E-communication is confusing sometimes. I'll try a face. [*^_^*]

Carl

[Anonymous]

Yeh, I cancelled my subscription to OGR also, and had them send me a refund. I don't like the way things are over there anymore.
Barry

[Anonymous]

The Newbies would just like a place where they can ask a basic question and get a straight answer.

We rarely have an opinion of one manufacturer over another, or which engine is the coolest.

We have questions, but should we pay $18 for the answers? Should we ask here for free, hoping to not get squished for asking something stupid that 800 other Newbies have asked?

I had a thread that I started deleted. My topic was "What should I not do to avoid getting posts deleted" I was specifically curious about the "Lamp Oil" incident, that I knew nothing about

All of the forums are like going to a cocktail party where everyone went to college together but you. I will just smile politely for a while, and try to giggle where appropriate.

Please pass the finger sandwiches[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spodwo

QUOTE: Somehow the OGR forum gets dragged here anyway in various posts in the form of "my forum is better than your forum" and bashing.

Which diminishes this forum and more often than most., makes it a place for people to trash consistently about the other forum. It's as if there is nothing better to talk about than OGR here. In short, it appears that CTT [the mighty Kalmbach] supports negative advertising against a smaller competitor by it's lack of monitoring [or caring for that matter].

And you certainly can drag the individual posters here through the mud as noted in numerous posts....

OGR Forum memebers talk about the OGR Forum here because they can't over there. That's the point. In the meantime, PLEASE feel free to start an interesting train releated thread on your own. If it is interesting enough, people here will jump in. I would also recomend that you ignor this thread or any other thread of no interest to you and jump into one the many train related threads available. I'm looking forward to your contributions! [:)]

[Anonymous]

Forums maybe are like a fine woman. At first, it's all free and fun.. Then, little things crop up, some of which really bug you. Then you learn that certain things are better not said, just to keep the peace, but it's still fun. Then, at some point, you realize that you have to pay or move on. Charlie

[FJ and G]

Alton,

I apologize as well. I think that some of my posts and replies are pure rubbish, but I try to atone for these with a few gems. Thorns are found with the roses.

Also, I criticized Rich for deleting posts, but I want to add that much of what he deleted should have been. But a lot of what was deleted has left many of us puzzled.

I think most of us can work out our differences, and yes, cyberspace is a difficult way to communicate! What might be taken for a joke by some is taken as a slight by others.

Enough pontification!

[alton6]

FJ and G,

Agreed! I do, by the way, have a lot of respect for some of your ideas. Like taking apart o-27 tubular track and relaying it. Innovative!

[phatkat64]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macdannyk1

And just think, people will get to pay for that level of "service" soon.

PAY??!! Is this hobby not expensive enough yet?

[Anonymous]

I'm glad for one thing Rich gave us all a chance to get used to the idea of not posting in HIS forum. HE and junior delete out threads because other members ask them to as well as because of posts unfavorable to OGR's advertisers. as well as threads that are not in line with HIS way of thinking.

$18 is not alot. But why would I pay to provide information so Rich can get Richer by using the forum as another outlet to HIS advertisers.

there are a lot of guys that will pay and stay because they advertise in OGR.


Alan

[Anonymous]

FROM THE MOUTH OF RICH MELVIN:

I never comment on thread deletions because it is the opening of a never-ending argument about WHY, and I am not going to go there. However, in this case I will comment because if I don't, the same kind of thread will get started here again. I would have thought by now that the reason for the recent deletions would have been self-explanatory.

The two threads in question were deleted because I do NOT want to start a "Roll Call" of people who have signed up here for their paid membership. That only serves to identify people that are on one side or the other of what has been a very volatile issue. We simply don't need to go there.

Mark my words...this forum will be just fine after June 1.

Rich Melvin, Publisher
O Gauge Railroading magazine
NKP 765's Web Site


SO THERE!!!

[prewardude]

I've never posted on the OGR forums, and now I never will considering some of the things I've read over here from former members of that other forum. Sounds like Mr. Melvin is a bit over-confident (arrogant?) to me. We've never had that problem with any Kalmbach employees over here. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Anonymous]

Mr. Melvin arrogant? Not according to the in crowd.[bow]

OGR=[censored]

[Anonymous]

LMAO!!

[Anonymous]

I do not know Rich Melvin personally, but I do believe that he is one of the "good guys" in the hobby. He has never made any bones about being a "benevolent dictator". He had deleted threads when he feels that they have gotten out of hand (i.e. mindless flame wars-some of which, I am ashamed to say, I participated in), that the information in the threads was grossly in error, or, in the case of the smoke fluid issue, potentially dangerous.

People are certainly entitled to their opinions, but I do not believe that Rich Melvin deserves the term "arrogant" or any bashing.

Just my two cents.

[FJ and G]

Rak,

I pretty much agree with most of what you say. However, I do take exception to the smoke fluid issue. I cannot understand why a legitimate toy train topic cannot even be discussed.

For example, my question on the consistency of mineral water used in smoke fluid was deleted.

Sure, you can put something flammable that could blow up in your face but if we don't discuss it, then how is anyone to know that it could be dangerous.

And, a certain club near where I live has in fact used smokeless lamp oil for years in all of their trains during a dozen meets a year. Lets discuss this like gentlemen and ladies.

Furthermore, you could get an electric shock from opening up a transformer or having a saw kick back on you when putting up your benchwork, or a train could kill you if it falls down on you from the layout as you are working below.

Common folks; this may not be the case, and I certainly believe Rich when he says it is a safety issue, but it has the APPEARANCE of kow-towing to his advertisers who make bundles off the sale of smoke fluid.

dave v

[Anonymous]

It must be a business based decison to charge $$. That is fine with me and I respect that.

I enjoy the OGR forum, but find that sometimes its an "east coasters" train club board. Am I wrong??

[nblum]

I too believe the decision to charge is strictly an economic decision. I think the forum has become a significant financial and time drain on the very small business that is OGRR. Thus they decided the forum is either going to pay its own way or disappear. I think it's probably as simple as that.

My guess is it will be come substantially smaller and thus a much smaller drain financially and timewise. End of problem and also the end of being the largest discussion forum regarding three rail O gauge trains, in all likelihood. They've probably pretty much ceded that title to this forum in the long run, IMO, and I'm sure they're both aware of and OK with that probable outcome.

[Anonymous]

We'll never know the real reason why OGR has decided to impose a $18 fee on O-gauge hobbyiests who wi***o become active members (with the right to post) on their forum. One would think that the Forum would act as a magnet to attract subscribers to OGR there by justifying any/all costs to run their forum.

Sixty GB of data transfer per month, while an impressive amount, is not that expensive. Just do some research and you'll see that many Web Hosts offer up to 100 GB of transfer for under $100 a month. OGR would need attract only 5.5 new subscribers a month to cover that cost.

It's my opinion that publishing OGR is not that profitable and they are just trying to bring in more revenue.
Bill
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[phatkat64]

QUOTE: Originally posted by little john

The Newbies would just like a place where they can ask a basic question and get a straight answer. <br>

All of the forums are like going to a cocktail party where everyone went to college together but you. I will just smile politely for a while, and try to giggle where appropriate.

Please pass the finger sandwiches[;)]

I just had to open up this can of worms again, because for 3 months, I've been trying hard to have a voice on the OGR forum. I'm not sure why, since I don't subscribe to OGR, and I DO subscribe to CTT!

little john, you could not have stated it better! Only over there, they wouldn't even pass the finger sandwiches!

They are elitist, and often rude, and I'm certainly NOT paying for the privilege of being snubbed[:(!]

Sad thing is, I'm not so new. I've been in the hobby for 30 years, and if they opened up a little, they may have learned something while teaching me!!!

This forum here is the real "in crowd", it consists of real people!

Done ranting! Someone pass me a beer, I'm home![:D]

[spodwo]

QUOTE: They are elitist, and often rude, and I'm certainly NOT paying for the privilege of being snubbed

The OGR forum is free. It will continue to be. That was announced about a month ago.

And why pigeon hole everyone one there or them here...it sounds like bigotry.

[eZAK]

NO spodwo!!
There is no pigeon hole or bigotry going on here.

What DOES go on at OGR and other forums is Discrimination!
Right or Wrong.
Some members and/or group of members will not post to, or even look at, a post by certain other members based solely on ones sign in name.

This has been discussed, admitted to, & aparently accepted!

[spodwo]

When someone refers to a whole website and it's members - I can't see how that isn't just as elitist. "They" isn't "some people" over there. That's my point. I guess since I have more posts there -> I am a "they". ??

And I responded to this thread due to the misinformation that the "other" site is charging and it's not due to some advertisers coming up to the plate.

I don't know/care who is bounced, banned or on some usual suspect list with any of the sites. There are always people who get thrown of websites for some reason or another and it doesn't matter what the site is about [such as guns barbies or politics]. I can recall someone who got bounced from 2 Large Scale sites but keeps coming back again and again under some pseudonym. The last time he got to stay as he seems to have modifed his behaviour. And so on and on...

And make no mistake - since a website is owned by someone - it's their way or the highway. I can live with that....

I think there are some people who's posts are interesting and will always read them. There are others who post who are more concerned about bashing a train manufacturer [consistently] or always seem to be negative. I am more inclined "not" to read threads started by them as they generally say the same thing. I also don't generally like the "insider" posts that go on about some cryptic imagined place/inside jokes, etc. for obvious reasons. I guess I have my own "spam" filter on for some individuals as I am sure many do. It's just personal preference.

Ultimately - if you don't like the tone of a site - don't post and don't go there. There is just too much concern about "other" train forums and if people have moved on to a new home and are happy well that's cool.

We have some bashing on a large scale site about the "other" large scale site and I stated that bashing doesn't do any good. It's counter productive to the hobby.