OGR Forum Refugee Roll Call

[Anonymous]

Chris,
You shouldn't be promoting other forums here.

[Anonymous]

Forrest,

I'll be at OGR, here, Model TrainJournal and the two forums I moderate, www.railroad.net and www.railfan.net

Chris.

[Anonymous]

One of the statistics quoted involved the number of members who actually posted to the forums on OGR. I don't think the bots & worms pease mentions would have been creating posts to OGR. Out of over 4,000 registered members (not paying members, just registered members), about 1,000 posted to OGR in March.

OGR may or may not be as popular as some people think it is, but a site with 1/4 of the registered membership posting has to be pretty popular.

Tony

[Anonymous]

pease, what are you saying, the OGR count is inflated? I can't see how they can have that many visits either. It is the same people posting over and over.

pax[C=:-)]

[fjerome]

chris, where you headed? i know your layout has to come down, but why are you backing away from railroading? or have things changed since you posted this?

[Anonymous]

Before any of you OGR members here brag anymore about your "record number of hits"
in March you should know that the Internet was infected with a virus that installed things called "seach bots" and link bots" in search engines like Google and Yahoo. Everytime a person goggled for "O gauge trains" or the like it would make multiple hits to sites like OGR causing a false high reading. This also caused some servers to slow down or even crash causing outages. These "bots" also create unwanted links to porn sites and spam sites causing e-mail accounts to become flooded. So before you OGR people start bragging you better check your computers for viruses and links. OGR isn't as popular as you wish it was. Many sites on the Internet had to fix this problem in March. The virus will link your computer to porn sites without you knowing it and even sometimes cause it to dial overseas to porn places there and run up your phone bill.

[Anonymous]

There's no way I'll pay $18 even if they improve the chatroom. I like it right here anyway.

pax[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

I to will not pay the $18.00, the internet should be free.I run and collect Marx, Lionel, Kusan, MTH, American Flyer S ,Kris, American Models and other assorted trains. I try to buy only USA made and in the process of ordering the new Marx tinplate cars for the "THOR: and "AEC" power units. Glad to see AMRTITRAINS again producing trains.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by superwarp1

OGR gets record page views in March. So much for you guys leaving.

Gary

Hi Gary, do you think that OGR will set any records in June after the fee is imposed? I don't think so. I noticed that Rich didn't post on how many people have signed up so far.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Pease, no problem.

[superwarp1]

Hey Jon, hows northern snow country.

I thought the whole point of the topic was for those who have left the OGR due the fee?

Gary

[Kooljock1]

And here I thought it was a weenie in a bun!

Uh oh....did I say Weenie?

Jon [8D]

[Anonymous]

who said we're leaving.....

at least that twinkie monster won't be at ogr and more.....

[superwarp1]

OGR gets record page views in March. So much for you guys leaving.

Gary

[Anonymous]

someone outta smack him.......

[Anonymous]

To Mr. Buckeye Riveter......
1. I wasn't referring to you.
2. I apologized to everyone about my remarks.
3. I only asked some questions and made certain remarks because there seems to be a few people who have nothing else to do but post stuff here. I made my remarks based on the fact that the only way some people could have so many posts (in the thousands and more!) was if they were physically attached to their computers and had no job no layout or no outside interests.
4. You sound like you and I have the same interests. (Work in construction, fishing,
hunting and TRAINS!) Never meant to offend you.
5. As for the "dead horse" thing it just seems that there seems to be some people that won't stop bringing this "OGR vs Everyone Else" thing up over and over again. The people that like OGR can do that and the people that like other train forums can do their thing and averyone should just get along! If I wanted to see people fight I would turn on a TV talk show or something. I come here to learn about trains.
6. Sorry (really!) about your illness and hospital stay. Bummer. Hope everything is good now and you have more time for the train layout and this (finally) better weather. Yeah I have to work harder when the weather is good but the bucks are there and that gets me more money for trains and my hunting and fishing stuff.
7. So before this starts another flame war lets all call a truce and not worry about the "other guy's" forum and business. Let's stop being "look at me" people and instead let's look at trains and layouts. OK? Truce?

[Anonymous]

Joe,

Who are Sandy and Hans?

Are you related to the Garfield NJ Polskas?

[Anonymous]

LV RR,

Make sure you don't forget Sandy and Hans.

pax
[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

no one needs to worry about me in railroading anymore.

i'll keep in tuch with afew people...

[Anonymous]

Good story, Tony. That guy might be smarter than all of us!

[Buckeye Riveter]

Good point, Mr. Pease. I'll try to refrain from asking too many questions in the future that are so upsetting. [:(][:(][:(][:(][:(]

As to one of your previously posted questions which may or may not have been directed at me, I'll be more than happy to answer it. Yes, I did have an IV bottle strapped to my arm about 9 weeks ago and I didn't need to get up to eat, but I had to carry it to the john. Horribly painful surgery, but I made it by the grace of God.

Yes, I do have a train layout. You are welcome to come and see it sometime if you can find Roger's Corners.

Yes, I still work in construction and once a year get to go fishing for walleye, pike and smallies.

I hope I am not beating that horse anymore. I was hoping to get to the Derby this year, but with the sugery I won't be able to make it. In the event, that you feel I'm still beating that horse, just say so.

[Anonymous]

This horse is DEAD! Why are you all still beating it?[tdn]

[Buckeye Riveter]

My orginal post was so upsetting to Mr. Pease, (see below) that I decided to erase part of it so it wouldn't cause any problems.

Oh, and one last thing I almost forgot...[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]
Welcome one and all, and please except my thanks in advance for all of the knowledge you bring to this forum.

[NYC Fan]

Tony,

That story sounds too much like my Father! He hasn't gotten cable TV, a cell phone, or a computer....all for similar reasons you describe above.

Skip

[Anonymous]

John:

You ever hear the story of the guy who wanted to buy a TV, but heard that color was coming out in a few years. So he decided to wait.

Then, after color TVs came out, he heard that there was something else new coming down the pike, so he decided to wait for that.

At the end of the story, it's 30 years later and the guy still hasn't got a TV. And his friends are probably sick of him coming over to watch their TV.

This story has nothing to do with train forums or cable vs broadcast TV, but it IS a funny one.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Tony,

Your March 26 post asks if anyone still just gets broadcast TV. We do!

I decided long ago when our first daughter arrived in 1980 that 6 channels would be hard enough to manage with a growing family, not to mention 50 or 100. It's paid off and I don't regret it. I even know a guy in our church who doesn't have a TV, period. He just borrows one whenever Alabama plays on TV. I do know a lot more people, though, who have cable.

I'm not saying cable TV or pay train forums are evil. They just don't fit my priorities. And there are a few good shows on broadcast channels!

[Anonymous]

Good to see you all!

pax[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by goodtogreat

Refugee!
Entered CTT witness protection program and changed name too![}:)]

[:D]Very funny! I'll probably spend more time here using my name & take my chances with the OGR hit men.

[Anonymous]

All OGR refugees are welcomed here! No censorship or $18.00 FEES!
[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]

[Anonymous]

dlagrua:

Hey, we can agree to disagree. As I said, you're entitled to your opinion & to spend your money as you see fit.

No problem at all.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Not a refugee...I'll continue to visit OGR..but I'm NOT paying $18 to post...

Moodyman (AKA hooch on OGR)

[Anonymous]

I'm going to watch both forums for awhile. Do I agree with the $18 fee, no. If you get the magazine the website access should be free. But in the fast paced, low priced, wal-mart mentality world we live in, each business must decide what is best for THEM, not necessarily their customers.

[Anonymous]

with Dave V., Tony, and dlagrua here who needs to post?
i'll just scroll and read along [^]

[Anonymous]

Tony:
Thank you for your kind and courteous reply. Perhaps we still disagree a bit on the philosophy at the other forum, what it costs to run it, and of course the $18 fee. However, I do not disagree on your right to spend your hard earned money any way that you wish. I hope that you do not fault my logic in my main point ;of not paying for something that all other forums provide free.
I've tried to address this topic perhaps with some sharp criticism and a bit of "off color humor". The bottom line is that this is a great hobby with nice folks from all over. I hope to make some posts later today which will share some of my scratch building work. It's time to start talking model railroad stuff again.

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

Just came over from the OGR forum to see who was here. Looks like a lot of OGR users are now signed up here at CTT.

Looks like there are some good trends here....so I'll just take some time and look around.

[Anonymous]

David:

Alas, I have no more pull convincing others how to spend their time or money than I do with the members on this forum. I'm quite willing to let everyone make their own choices. And do it without disparaging them.

There was a movie about Mars that came out a couple of years ago. I believe Gary Sinese was in it. He's an actor I happen to like, partly because of the bizarre resemblance I felt he had to Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull when he played "Leutenant Dan" in Forrest Gump. In any event, the movie ddn't do well, but I caught the end of it on cable once.

Warning: IF you want to see this movie, stop reading now.

In the part I saw, the astronauts walk into the "giant mars face", which turns out to be real, and they watch a holographic movie. The movie shows a green Mars being struck by a comet or asteroid & going up in flames. Then it shows a fleet of space ships leaving Mars & landing on Earth.

So, according to this movie, WE are the Martians.

Tony

[FJ and G]

I agree that for $18 you will be getting a lot of good interaction from those highly talented members, the vast majority who have chosen to remain on OGR. I just wi***hat many of them would also post of the "free" sites. You probably know who I'm talking about: those who have great knowledge about DCS, LEDs and other electronics, as well as a certain author.

1. My own reasons for not paying the fee are that once all of the sites charge fees, we won't have the "free access" and change of ideas that we now have. I just feel it is the wrong road to take.

2. Furthermore, as a subscriber to OGR, I think it should be a free subscriber benefit. That would tie sales of their magazine to this free service.

Anyway, Tony, I understand and respect yours and others' reasons for paying the fee. But reasons #1 and #2 are my own.

I'll keep my eyes out for bacteria fossiles in the photos from space, and the possibility that intelligent life has constructed some toy trains on Mars.

[Anonymous]

David:

Actually, the Mars rovers are named "Opportunity" and "Spirit." And, in my opinion, at least, if they do encounter any Martians, it'll be in the form of bacteria fossils.

Tony

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dlagrua

QUOTE: Originally posted by vitabile

I'd like to point out that Kalmbach is a much larger organization, with many more magazines, books, and employees than OGR. This is only one of a family of forums operated by Kalmbach. Rich Melvin & his partners only own one magazine. You can't compare the revenue streams of the two companies; it's like comparing the revenue of Staples to a mom & pop office supply store.

The fact remains: none of us know what OGR or Kalmbach pays to allow us the privilege to post on their forums. I respectfully submit that any conclusions that OGR is trying to turn their forum into a profit center are not based on facts, since none of us know just what all of the fact are. Especially when you consider that even though posting is still free over there, people have already left & aren't going back. Where is the profit going to come from?

Everyone has the right to spend their money as they see fit. If you and others no longer wi***o use the OGR forum, that is your right. For those of us who have decided to pay the fee, that is our right as well. Can we all respect each other & drop the nastiness?

Tony

Tony: I very much respect your opinion but would like to offer a few counterpoints.
1. Webspace is not that expensive. A website is inexpensive to operate and maintain. Anyone could sponsor a forum for $25 to $100 a month. This small sum can be recovered by selling very minimal advertising.
2. If a forum is not trying to charge a $18 fee to turn a profit then what is the fee for? Perhaps to pay the salary of the moderator for time censoring posts that disagree with his philosophy? I believe that that other forum saw how many people were on it and said: well if 10-20% of the members stay that's quite a score- simple and easy cash in my pocket.
3. Spending money as one see's fit. It's certainly your right to spend your money as you see fit. If you feel that it's a good buy to purchase something that ALL other forums provide FREE then just get out your checkbook and send in your money today.!! Don't hessitate, they are going fast and there are only a limited number of memberships left!!!!! -LOL

dlagrua:

I have pointed this out in another post on this thread. The major cost for a forum of OGR's size is not the hard disk space required to contain the postings. That is indeed cheap. The major cost to a forum with OGR's activity level is the bandwidth required to transmit the data from that database to each of the users' browsers.

Rich Melvin indicated OGR has served up on average over 60 Gigabytes of data per month for the last 6 months That data was spread out over 130 million pages. If you do the math out, assuming the load was perfectly balanced over a 24 hour period (which it really isn't), that's the equivalent of 50 users being served a web page every second. It's also the equivalent of almost 25KB of data being transmitted every second.

That kind of traffic costs money to support. Your average high-end desktop PC couldn't hope to keep up with that kind of traffic. And OGR's service is hosted by an outside vendor, which means they get a bill every month. And you know that the service provider is going to make a profit.

As for whether or not these numbers are accurate, if you glance at the "who's online now" bar at the top of the OGR forum page, you'll note that there are often over 70 people online at any one time. The numbers above certainly seem to bear out given the evidence of the "who's online now" bar.

The $18 a year charge, I believe, is intended to defray the costs, but not turn a profit. I also believe that part of the purpose of the fee is to weed out the people who do not want to pay it & so reduce the size of the above mentioned bill.

I sincerely doubt the bills will stay at their current level, but still, $0.05 a day from every user left, most of whom will be active participants posting on a regular basis, probably isn't going to cover the whole bill. OGR is not in the business of running a forum; they're in the business of publishing a magazine.

Regarding the matter of my checkbook, I have indeed paid the fee already. If you read my post carefully, you would note that I used the phrase "those of us who have already paid the fee."

And further, I believe I will be getting something that I won't be getting free on other forums: a source of information on toy trains & TMCC & other things that interest me in the form of the other people who have paid the fee & are staying on OGR. It's the people who make the forum, not the cost.

One last thing: even if I am wrong & OGR is trying to make a profit off of theif forum, why is that such a bad thing? Tell me, why do so many people have cable or satellite TV when they can put an antenna on their roof & get the same thing for free? Do you even know someone who still watches TV off of the free airwaves?

Tony

[FJ and G]

speaking of OGR refugees, it would be nice to see more of your posts; don't be bashful. The CTT site doesn't seem to be moving all that quickly. Maybe when the payments machine on OGR kicks in we will see more?

[FJ and G]

diagrua,

I hope you are not right. That would be highway robbery.

To settle this matter, I would like to a detailed breakdown of the costs and how OGR plans to utilize the money. I'm sure that all of it is going into their website and not into anyone's pockets, but then again I may be naive.

BTW, I'm still hopeful that Rover and Spirit will encounter Martians.

dav

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vitabile

I'd like to point out that Kalmbach is a much larger organization, with many more magazines, books, and employees than OGR. This is only one of a family of forums operated by Kalmbach. Rich Melvin & his partners only own one magazine. You can't compare the revenue streams of the two companies; it's like comparing the revenue of Staples to a mom & pop office supply store.

The fact remains: none of us know what OGR or Kalmbach pays to allow us the privilege to post on their forums. I respectfully submit that any conclusions that OGR is trying to turn their forum into a profit center are not based on facts, since none of us know just what all of the fact are. Especially when you consider that even though posting is still free over there, people have already left & aren't going back. Where is the profit going to come from?

Everyone has the right to spend their money as they see fit. If you and others no longer wi***o use the OGR forum, that is your right. For those of us who have decided to pay the fee, that is our right as well. Can we all respect each other & drop the nastiness?

Tony

Tony: I very much respect your opinion but would like to offer a few counterpoints.
1. Webspace is not that expensive. A website is inexpensive to operate and maintain. Anyone could sponsor a forum for $25 to $100 a month. This small sum can be recovered by selling very minimal advertising.
2. If a forum is not trying to charge a $18 fee to turn a profit then what is the fee for? Perhaps to pay the salary of the moderator for time censoring posts that disagree with his philosophy? I believe that that other forum saw how many people were on it and said: well if 10-20% of the members stay that's quite a score- simple and easy cash in my pocket.
3. Spending money as one see's fit. It's certainly your right to spend your money as you see fit. If you feel that it's a good buy to purchase something that ALL other forums provide FREE then just get out your checkbook and send in your money today.!! Don't hessitate, they are going fast and there are only a limited number of memberships left!!!!! -LOL

[Anonymous]

[#welcome]

OGR=[censored]

[Anonymous]

1) stop.

2) go back and read the last post from Tony "vitabile".

3) take a deep breath.

4) we are still talking about toy trains right? it is a hobby still isn't it?

[Anonymous]

I'd like to point out that Kalmbach is a much larger organization, with many more magazines, books, and employees than OGR. This is only one of a family of forums operated by Kalmbach. Rich Melvin & his partners only own one magazine. You can't compare the revenue streams of the two companies; it's like comparing the revenue of Staples to a mom & pop office supply store.

The fact remains: none of us know what OGR or Kalmbach pays to allow us the privilege to post on their forums. I respectfully submit that any conclusions that OGR is trying to turn their forum into a profit center are not based on facts, since none of us know just what all of the fact are. Especially when you consider that even though posting is still free over there, people have already left & aren't going back. Where is the profit going to come from?

Everyone has the right to spend their money as they see fit. If you and others no longer wi***o use the OGR forum, that is your right. For those of us who have decided to pay the fee, that is our right as well. Can we all respect each other & drop the nastiness?

Tony

[Anonymous]

OGR forum = [censored]

[Anonymous]

OK boys, behave now.[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leonard

dlagrua
Sure its your opinion, no debate there--and you clearly have a low regard for certain of your fellow O-gaugers. Obviously you have the right to hold that opinion but I don't agree with bad-mouthing others in the hobby including people with whom I disagree!.

and this post certainly expresses your opinion. I disagree with the prejudiced accessment of my post as expressed above. It seems strange how you are so quick to judge others for their opinion and have not bothered to respond to the points in my post.

[Anonymous]

dlagrua
Sure its your opinion, no debate there--and you clearly have a low regard for certain of your fellow O-gaugers. Obviously you have the right to hold that opinion but I don't agree with bad-mouthing others in the hobby including people with whom I disagree!.

[Anonymous]

There is no need to write IMO. You wrote it and your name is beside it. Who else's opinion would people expect it to be? [}:)][}:)] Otherwise the post seems a little egocentric. Just a teeny, little bit. [:D][:D][:D]

Bill

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leonard

diagrua
It is interesting and revealing about you to hear the low regard you have for your fellow O-gaugers! At once the "ignorant" and "idiot" types as you classify them( for paying $18).

Leonard. I have only benevolent thoughts concerning my model railroad brethren. If you read my post my comment was followed by IMO= in my opinion. I have my opinion just as you have yours and I hope that you believe that I am entited to an opinion. I was just making a point in strong and perhaps comical terms. The point is that "other" forum charges for the exact same thing that ALL the other forums offer free. Am I missing something here, or do you believe that the inteligent person buys the identical something that can be had for free Does this make logical sense or am I missing something here??

[Anonymous]

Must be 10ben10 or Michael Illinois Central or Chrissie. The Truth or should your name be The Lie?[#welcome]

[Anonymous]

Ah, I see things are quite heated here. Makes for entertaining reading. I'm here because I'm a rare poster, perhaps 2-3 times a month. I'll just lurk over there and continue an occasional comment here. Regards all.

Dave

[Anonymous]

If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be laughable. Joe Polska, claiming to be a refugee. Joe Polska aka Hans Zimmer aka Jans Bimmer aka a dozen different names aka D.P. Christopher, who holds the record for being thrown off the OGR Forum for being a complete and total jackass.

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to bash, but I'm a little confused as to the justification
of charging for the OGR forum access. Mr. Melvin says he can't meet
expenses. The subscription price has gone up recently to the magazine,
the latest 147 page issue has a ratio of approx. 2.5 pages of ads to
every 1 page of articles (and that is including full-page photos as an
"article" page), the ads are by mostly big-name vendors, so they are
paying a premium. It appears that the writing/editorial staff is barely a
skeleton crew (as an example the "article" on the toy train industry was
written almost exclusively by the vendors themselves) and the editing
is obviously done by Mr. Melvin himself. Add newstand sales, and you
have a pretty good-sized revenue base! I understand that he has costs
such as printing and mailing as well, but in comparison to other mags,
he is running a slim operation there. The site (which is a wonderful
"information mine") could be used for hobbyists to submit ideas and articles
for possible publication, but instead Mr. Melvin wants to charge for the
privilege of folks sharing info and helping others, charging for the new
arrivals' privilege of asking innocent questions, charging for anyone's
privilege of trying to promote this hobby.

The problem, as I see it, is that Mr. Melvin is merely looking for another
easy source of revenue. He talks about how difficult it is to administer
to his site with how many thousand registered posters? ...And how many
pages of info handled daily? Has he looked at how many HUNDRED
THOUSAND registered posters are at this site? ....and how many pages
of info are handled daily here? These folks are not charging! These folks
are gaining a LOT of FREE advertising through posters, and FREE public
exposure of their brand name(s), and FREE technical advice for their
subscribers. Cost?..........PRICELESS! (apologies to the credit card folks)

That's a shame.

[Anonymous]

vitabile Tony,

No one is falling for that story that Rich put on the forum.

pax

[Anonymous]

I think they chargin the fee to kill the forum. They don't want to fool with it. How many will stay, a hundred? Maybe that is what Rich wants.[soapbox]

This is the best forum anyway.[:)]

[Anonymous]

I like it over here and im here to stay!! [:)]

[Anonymous]

Very well said, guys!

[Anonymous]

OGR is not going to make enough from the $18 fee to make the forum profitable. And it wouldn't be profitable even if all of the people who have left the forum had paid the fee. I know a lot of people don't believe that, but I think a lot of people just don't know what the costs are to keep a forum as busy as OGR's up & running.

The only people that know what the costs actually are are at OGR, and they're not telling. But Rich Melvin has posted a couple of things in the new Suggestion Box forum there indicating that the average throughput on the site is 60 Gigabytes per month, with over 130 million web pages served up. That's a very busy web site, folks.

At any rate, my opinion on the scale vs toy train thing is: It's your pike, do what you want on it, but make sure you're having fun.

At least, that's how this "ignorant idiot" feels about things.

Tony

[Frank in Steam]

Kent, you can rest assured, no abuse from me because of your preference for 'tinplate'. Please note my last sentence, I like all trains. I enjoy running the Lionel size trains of my youth and occasionally buy an off scale sized item that catches my eye. It does not mean that you won't get kidded by me, as I expect it in return. Also, as far as I am concerned, if its not 1:1 it is a toy train = meant to be (run) played with. Finally, I can appreciate a collection, but to me a collection is what I have accumulated to run.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't call it idiotic to pay for using a forum, but I wouldn't pay for it! It does seem like a double standard when they pay for articles, but charge people to contribute to the forum. The only reason I can figure for doing that is to make their website a profitable venture.... quite a change in philosophy, considering that most companies consider it a valuable sales and service tool. They can even increase the subscription and I will pay, but I won't pay to use their website.

FrankinSteam, I'm probably overly sensitive to the scale vs toy issue, but even I welcome hi-railer (scale) guys. I think we should just respect each other's choices, and recognize the value of both sides. When I left the OGR forum, it was because I saw thinly-veiled attacks on tinplate, and "It's only toys!" comments fired back in defense. And my presence there was not helping, since I made the mistake of re-opening and trying to discuss the issue. Man, that must have been like ripping a scab off a massive wound, the bad feelings just oozed all over.... I will never do that again! Now, I will only go to toy train friendly sites. I hope this is one.

Kent
PS Please note that I do not wi***o start any fights, and respect both sides of the Model Railroading Hobby.

[Anonymous]

Leonard:

Diagrua's choice of words were a little harsh. It's my opinion that he should have used the term
Lobotomized Zombies in place of ignorant and idiot.

All kidding aside, OGR sponsors a great Forum. Their decision to charge a membership fee was a bad decision made by good people.

None of us know for sure why they have decided to charge the free. One would think that if the magazine was making a decent profit then that would have more than covered all expenses related to hosting their Forum.

[Anonymous]

diagrua
It is interesting and revealing about you to hear the low regard you have for your fellow O-gaugers! At once the "ignorant" and "idiot" types as you classify them( for paying $18).

[NYSubway18]

I agree, a forum is nothing without it's members and their content. Just as a magazine would be nothing without it's writers. Now they charge for a magazine, but the writers are paid. Does this mean they will pay their posters for their content? [%-)]

[Anonymous]

I am here also, as always posting under my real name. I've been a member of the two forums for a while but will leave the "other" forum when the $18 charge goes into effect.
I predict that not many members will be ignorant enough to pay that forum for the privilidge of sharing their ideas, opinions, thoughts, technical expertise, layout photos and mini-articles on this hobby. We join a forum to help each other and gain knowledge on what others are doing. In essense the members ARE the forum and though our contributions we all benefit.. It is immoral to charge a fee for a discussion forum and IMO only an idiot would pay the fee.

[Frank in Steam]

Count me in . I will not trash OGR, I really like the mag; and I have subscribed to CTT as long as I have been back in the hobby. I have my reasons for not paying the fee for the OGR forum that I will address directly with Rich.

I trust that this dyed in the wool 3 rail,scale dimesnsioned steam head will be welcome here. My previous signature was as the train gourmand = no not eating them but enjoying all trains.

[Anonymous]

The Rock is also a member of the www.modeltrainjournal.com forum. It's a great place with a lot of familiar people from the OGR forum. No cliques or know-it-alls over there. Check it out and join us![;)]

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't go as far as to use the word Refugee. Most of us who had parents who lived through the Great Depression know the value of a dollar, and I'm sure that's the reason for the exodus from the OGR Forum.

The OGR Forum is a great Forum, but sometimes good people make bad mistakes. Like the $18 Fee. I can't see shelling out $18 just for the privilege of posting on the Forum. And even though I would lay my hard earned money down and become a paid member there is no guaranty that the moderator will not delete my well intended threads. Besides it already has enough know-it-all's. www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

I am glad to see the Rock, and I just figured out that FJ and G (did I get that right?) is David V.... glad to see the Master of Train Creative Writing! I wonder how Thor is doing?

[Anonymous]

Yippee!!! The Rock is here too!!![#welcome][#welcome]

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, Rock! CTT is getting better, but OGR is the best still. I won't let my subscription lapse until they go 90 percent or more Hirail.

[Anonymous]

The Rock is no refugee from the OGR forum! Although he isn't thrilled by the $18.00 fee, he's not on this forum to trash OGR or it's owners.

Santa Fe Kent, The Rock agrees with you that OGR seems to focus more on the hi rail rivet counters. However, both OGR and CTT are fine magazines and he'll continue to subscribe to both.

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,

I left the OGR forum months ago, and found that I had more time and more fun working on my little layout. I finally decided to try this site today. I think I will post on occasion here.

I am NOT looking to start any fights, but I did get tired of dealing with the scale vs toy thing there. As an ex-HO scale modeler, I really don't care to even think about scale ever again. I hope that does not become a problem here too.

It is my belief that OGR will be forced to become a Hi-rail mag, as scale modeling and non-scale toy trains have just never mixed very well, at least in my experience. Others say that is not correct, but if true, why are there OGR refugees here?

Okay, I got that of my chest. And I'm glad to know that there are still toy train fans out there.

Long live 3-rails, manly couplers, and the Lionel name!

Santa Fe Kent

[Anonymous]

First post on CTT. I've been a subscriber of CTT and OGR since 1989 and enjoy both mags. I spend about one to one and a half hours a night on train forums,OGR,Aol/Lionel/MTH. I guess I will be pushing two hours per night now.[:D]

[chorst01]

I'm here and come 05/31 I not there unless they provide some break for mag subscribers.
--chh

[NYSubway18]

Hey all,

Was away from the OGR board for a while, and just found out about the new $18 fee. [:(!] When I was posting a lot it might have been worth it, although I never would have even gotten started there if there was a fee - too bad for newbies, and dealers as this will hurt getting newcomers to the hobby, which already has a problem attracting new members.

I'm on the fence about whether I'll stay at OGR after 5/31, but with my job change last June, my house, and the thought of actually playing with my trains, my posting is severly down, and this may be just the wake-up call I need to get off my butt and do more. [;)] Just found this place so let see how it is here before making any lasting decisions. [V]

Now, the main question - to see if there are any subway fans here...[?]

Chris C. Shaffer

[garyseven]

David Vergun

Since when did you become a Major (two star) General?!?[bow]

[Anonymous]

I see Dr. John has joined us.

pax[#welcome]

[Anonymous]

I see my good friends coming here. The best forum of all.

[:)]pax

[Anonymous]

It's good indeed to see familiar names on board here. This looks like a good place to get and share information. One thing I like is that it doesn't have information overload. I have limited time to devote to discussing trains, so a concise board is more helpful to me.

My son and I visited the VIrginia Museum of Transportation in Roanoke earlier this week, while in the area visiting family. I shot some digital video, but only took film stills, so when I get those processed I'll post a few if they're any good.

[Anonymous]

Hi I'm a newbie here too,Only posted a few times on OGR but all replys were very helpfull.I get a lot of my questions and problems solved by looking at other posts.Heard about this site and desided to see what all it can offer. Glad to have two good forums to go to.I Have A modern-Era TMCC layout. Glad to be aboard. Orail

[FJ and G]

Hi BobC.

Are you a refugee, then, or are you trying to lure us back? If a refugee, then welcome. Well, welcome anyway.

[Anonymous]

Bob C,

Only 2 posts! That would make you a freshman...

[CSXJOE]

I'll try here for a while.

[Anonymous]

I think that things will stabilize over at the OGR site and that it will weather the storm, so to speak.

Bob C.

[Anonymous]

I think that things will stabilize over at the OGR site and that it will weather the storm, so to speak.

Bob C.

[Anonymous]

Tony, don't pay any attention to Chris. He's been kicked off more forums than he can count.

[Anonymous]

I am another that started posting on this forum before I found OGR. My posting here has not been as prolific as on OGR since then.

I never got the impression that the standards forum was there trying to tell me how to run or design my layout. I thought it was there for the guys that are into Hi-rail to work out standards that could be given to the manfufacturers of hi-rail stuff so it would all play together. On the other hand, I could be wrong.

Far as I know, I'm not a hi-rail guy. I want to try scenicing & such, but I'm not going to count rivets or make sure that every figure & building is exactly 1/48 th scale & has a prototype. Life's too short to worry about that stuff. And anyway, it's my pike & I'll do as I d*mn please, thank you very much.

Heck my new scale k-line Mikado is pulling a bunch of "traditional sized" freight cars right now. Looks fine to me!

I intend to visit both forums, at least for the foreseaable future. If the OGR forum becomes a dead zone, I won't renew my membership.

And Chris? Regarding anyone who "struts around like their **** don't stink," there are jerks everywhere. Why should this forum (or GRR) be any different?

Tony

[Anonymous]

OK, I have joined on many forums, I am even moderate a few.

I have read this forum, and have seen what a few "memebers" had to say about the 'new wave' coming in. They did not like it at all. There are 2 people on here, that will remain nameless(but you know who they are) That think they own the joint and strut around like there **** don't stink.

[cnw1995]

Congratulations, Dave. I can't wait to hear on Monday what you were able to do.

[FJ and G]

Here!

Planning to start my new train layout this weekend now that the basement is finished.

Dave Vergun

[Anonymous]

LocoK in the house. I registered here before, but for the life of me I can't remember my password, email addressed used, or anything....

But it is great seeing some familiar name.

[cheapclassics]

Hi,

I am not exactly a refugee because I have posted occasionally over here as well. I enjoy OGR's Forum because it seemed as if news broke over there first concerning catalogs and other news. I always felt a little guilty as I do some writing from time to time for CTT. Perhaps activity will pick up over here now, but I hope the OGR bunch continues to do well. We need both groups to keep each other honest.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

[MikeSanta]

I had been over here before, and I enjoy the current format over here a BUNCH better than what they had here before. I think OGR is messing up with the $18, tho. I think they'll be helping out Kalmbach and Atlas with the fee. Of course, I may yet be paying the $18 yet.

[jwally]

I did not know that this was here till a few months ago. Checked it out just that one time. After I read about the charges on OGR I thought I just see what this site was like. The first topic I saw was about the same problem I was having. It was easy to post a reply. What little I have read seems to be just as imformative with helpful members. I will be visiting more often. Still on the fence about paying to be a forum member.[:)]
It was nice to see some familar names. Makes one feel at home.

[superwarp1]

I don't know about ORG but I should have my tables at the Big E next year.

[Anonymous]

I'm new over there as of the 13th of March but I'm waiting to see what happens as of May 31st my self heres another site we are trying to get support for an O gauge forum at please try to give some support there it's free to

Railfan.netforums

[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]

[Kooljock1]

Superwarped,

I'm sure the management of said radio station will be pleased to see me spending more of my off-air time writing and producing and less gabbing with the OGR crew!

Anyways, I'll decide come late May. But I must say this does appear to be a very nice place to hang out! I wonder if they'll have a booth at Springfield???

Jon [8D]

[Anonymous]

Not a refugee, since I actually posted HERE first![;)]

[Anonymous]

Here....for the duration. They're TOYS dammit! [:D]

Now everybody play nice...and play with their TRAINS!

[Anonymous]

[^]Present!![^]

[Anonymous]

I am musicman on the other forum. I will probably pay the $18.00 and see how it goes for the first year. Glad to have another place to hang out!

SC

[superwarp1]

KoolJock, if you leave the forum I'm driving up to that radio station of yours and kick your butt. Just joking. I don't see much of you guys leaving yet. Still seeing 90+ every night.[oX)][oX)][oX)]

[ed11670]

You can pay the fee at York...I'll make up my mind then.....I think I like this one better. But we'll see.

[Anonymous]

Im here because of the fees and some of the bashing a few gave us for not wanting to pay. Even though I could afford the fee it was where I felt the forum was going come the 31st. Time will tell but Im covering my bases anyway. Hope this forum will be as good as the other one. BTW I'm Hobo on the other one.[:)]

[willpick]

I respect those former OGR members who feel that they are doing "the right thing" by leaving. I'm not going to leave OGR yet. I'm going to pay to play, at least for the first year. If it does a nosedive into the pond, I'll bail out. Otherwise, I'll be there AND here, hopefully contributing usefully to BOTH forums. Besides, this way I get to read more information!

[bluelinec4]

I had paid my 18.00 and came here to try it out just in case the new look doesn't pan out. I am going back to the OGR forum. People there are much friendlier. It seems that some on this forum feel like you have to ask their permission before you can post. I have seen many " Since you guys came here I see...." comments. Read the K-Line yuch post to see what I mean. So if OGR decides to charge 50.00 I will stay there. See you CTT. I wish I can say its been a pleasure

Ben

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone.. i made the switch

[Anonymous]

I am on the fence and have not decided whether I am a refugee just yet. [:-^]

But while I am here..[#welcome]

Kooljock - I gotta agree. When standards surfaced as a stand alone forum, something changed, either with me to the forum. [sigh]

But I have learned quite a lot there and I can't forget that either.[swg]

[Anonymous]

Gary Seven, I love that movie!

[Anonymous]

You won't find me over on the AOL boards. I'll stay here.

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone!
Hope this board proves to as interesting as the AOL and OGR boards.
I see many of the same faces er names here.
I however am using a different name here.
I use other names on the other boards.
Tanaka[:p]

[garyseven]

"Now listen carefully... That torpedo did NOT self-destruct. You heard it hit the hull, and I... was never here."

[spodwo]

QUOTE: Many folks are very supportive of the "new" OGR endeavor. So much so that they took the attitude that those they didn't want to pay were being cheap, disloyal or just whiners

Define many...

Really already...the fact is that it appears that some Ogauge railroaders are a split and devisive group. A couple of people make a comment or two and suddenly so many are the enemy. There are as many opinions as you have trains.

Change in the atmosphere? It was forum made up of individuals. Some are here now. Have you taken a wiff of this place? Take a read...this place was a lot more sedate and friendly until of late...consider that bit of reality.

There are only a handful of forums that center on Ogauge. And the hobby is only so big. It seems to me that lumping a whole forum into the enemy is as self defeating as it is disheartening.

So much anger and resentment over a business decision.

[Buck216]

Bill,

It is not really easy to explain what happened and I have been there for many years. Sure, the fee has been implemented and will become formal soon, but, the change in atmosphere is not easy to explain. Many folks are very supportive of the "new" OGR endeavor. So much so that they took the attitude that those they didn't want to pay were being cheap, disloyal or just whiners. Some that left were likewise very upset with the fee and felt that OGR had no right impose one, especially to paid subscribers of the mag. OGR claims that it is not a money making situation but, one necessary to pay for costs and create an even better forum. As I stated before, I have never paid to use a forum and do not intend to start now. I wish OGR the best with this new format and since I have no monetary interest in it, I fully understand that I have no right to give even $0.02 worth of criticism on that forum.

[Anonymous]

Crossracer, AKA Happy Bill here. Could someone tell me what in the heck happened over there? I was gone for a few months due to my wifes illness and when i came back it was all different. First, i really dont wantto see some of the pictures of the people they put up there. Just me being picky. Second it has all these new people and it does not seem to be the same happy go lucky place it used to be. I will be here for the duration. Please tell me where my nice little OGR forum went to? Bill

[Anonymous]

I'm glad to be out of there. Just got tired of Rich and Jim Barrett being so arrogant and condscending.

[Anonymous]

Been playing both sides of the street so to speak since last summer but I'm here for good now. I refused to pay to post on the OGR Forum and I think the magazine made a huge mistake by making the change. But its their forum, they can do what they want. I'm glad to be here fulltime now and look forward to many enjoyable evenings ahead. John Harding

[Anonymous]

Although I'm not a refugee in the sense that I've completely left the other forum, I will at least have a place to contribute my occasional assistance.

[Anonymous]

I, too, don't consider myself a refugee. I am on both sites, over there as alfick3. I paid my $18.00. I have never had any one over there tell me what I had to have on my layout, as a standard. I have made mention many times of my O-27 trains, and tubular track and non-command control. Never once was I belittled for any of it. I've always had curtious replies to all of my postings.

[MA and PA JCT]

MA&PA is sitting on the fence post, tettering on both sides. I have a large following on OGF, I'd be cutting my throat my leaving on a permanent basis. Since I have a business to think of, $18 is surely not going to put me in the poor house. Nothing wrong with sharing my time at 2 places.

[butleryard]

I'm here as Butleryard and Yardmaster over there.

I wouldn't consider myself a refuge, as I did pay my $18.00 over there and will stay active to see what the next year will bring. Also have to get my $18.00 worth of info out of the forum.

Stop in here once in awhile to see what is happening on the other side of the fence. It don't hurt to have several sources of info for this hobby!

[eZAK]

Here AND there[8D]

[Anonymous]

I'm here, but I'm also over there, at least through May 31.[:D]

[Dave45681]

Not yet a refugee, but my problems today with trying to get the "other" forum to play nice with my Netscape installation finally drove me to register here to see how things go.

I may just be optimistic, but the few threads I have looked at so far, the pages seem to load faster on my slow dial-up than over there![:)]

-Dave

[galy95]

Here![:D]

[cnw1995]

Well, I like it here too - but also at OGR.

[spodwo]

This place "Friendly"? Have you read some of the posts here the last couple of days?

I guess that is the price you pay [free] for no censorship what so ever. There seems to be little or no monitoring here. I have seen name calling and the dreaded discussion of politics.

Rock on...

[Anonymous]

I have nothing against any competitive magazines. Any owner of a forum has every right to charge for access to it. However, I also have the right to refuse to pay for contributing content to what amounts to, in many cases, writing mini articles and posting them on their forum. To their surprise, they will find that they are not the only O gauge forum on the web. They made their decison and I made mine. Rather than bash OGR, I wi***hem all the very best. I see them as good folks that made a bad decision.
CTT now becomes my first choice. As on any other forum I use my real name to make it easy on everyone. So welcome brothers and sisters in model railroading to a friendly place where the open exchange of ideas and opinions on this great hobby is freely welcomed.

[RI Jim]

I'm sitting on the tracks too, waiting to see what happens over at the OGR forum. I think we'll continue to see more and more action over here in the meantime.

[Kooljock1]

As I've stated before, I'll make up my mind at around 11PM on May 31st. But this sure seems to be a nice site with good people sharing informative information about trains. And the owners provide all kinds of on-line content, including videos, reviews, and on-line special information and articles too!

And nobody yet is telling me what has to be the "STANDARD" on MY layout!

Which, by the way was the beginning of the end over at the OGR Forum. The $18 was only secondary.

Jon [8D]

[macdannyk1]

Not a refugee...just standing up for my right not to have to pay to have my voice heard.

[Anonymous]

Refugee!
Entered CTT witness protection program and changed name too![}:)]

[cbojanower]

I am getting comfortable in the new surroundings, besides I have more smilies here[}:)][}:)]

[Anonymous]

Glad to be here[:D]

[Dr. John]

I don't consider myself a refugee.

I'm just playing both sides of the tracks! [:D]

[Anonymous]

I don't feel like a refugee;

I feel emancipated in this Age of Aquarius or Aquarium Car.

[:D]


Alan

[Anonymous]

I'm a refugee.