Post War Lionel 671/2020 Turbine Pulling Power Question

[ezmike]

As you know, in the early production years these had nickel rims on all 4 drive wheels (they also had power to both the first and fourth flanged drivers until the motor was changed) and then Lionel removed the nickel rims from the two middle non-flanged wheels, and then finally no rims at all.

Here's my question, do any of you out there know if the pulling power decreased when they removed the rims from the middle 2 wheels and they no longer touched the track? I have access to one with this set up and I can slip a sheet of paper under both wheels so they are not touching. Seems logical that it would have an effect but I'm just not sure so I'm throwing out there.

It seems reasonable that when the went from power to the first and fourth wheels to only the rear set that this would have an effect but what about wheels not touching the track?

Mike

[lionelsoni]

Since the 671 lacked magnetraction, its tractive effort was proportional to the weight on the drivers, regardless of how many wheels touched the rails.  So I would expect that there was no change.

The number of axles driven directly from the motor shouldn't matter either, since the side rods tie all the axles together.

[sir james I]

It doesn't matter whether your engine has six drivers or eight, only four wheels touched the track. The center wheels were for looks. However things like weight,MagnaTraction,ect could effect pulling power, but bottom line,four wheels did the work.

[ezmike]

Bob, thanks. In some ways I figured that it's weight played a role but wasn't sure. Now that you explained it, it makes sense.

Sirjames, thanks as well. Are you also saying the the middle wheels on the versions with the rims on all 4 wheel sets also did not make traction with the rail?

I ask because I have access to an excellent 2020 with blackened nickel rims on the first and fourth drivers and it's 6020W tender. I never would have thought about it but a friend of mine brought it up.

Mike 

[Roger Bielen]

I still use my original 2020 from 1947.  I've converted it to TMCC.  It has no problem pulling a consist of 15 freight cars.  As  matter of fact it'll out pull my GP's with magnetraction, it takes 2 GP's to pull the same consist witout sometimes spinning the wheels on starting.  I've also converted the smoke unit to use liquid and it smokes up a storm.

[dwiemer]

I have both the 2020 and 671.  I really enjoy these engines, and like Roger has pointed out, they are good pullers.  I would be interested in converting to TMCC.  I have pulled longer trains, with a little initial spinning the wheels.  Roger, how does your 2020 work regarding low end speeds?   Which kit did you use?  And finally, did you also convert the sound?  I also have the 6020 tender on mine.

Thanks,

Dennis

[anjdevil2]

Roger,

Like Dennis says....I also have a 2020 & 671....inquiring minds want to know....

[ezmike]

Guys, thanks for your replies. It only became an issue for me when someone I know stated that in the version with nickel rims on only the first and fourth sets of drivers there was a loss of pulling power because those 4 wheels do not touch the rails.

I think this discussion has put that to bed and even if there is a loss of power it is minimal.

Mike

[RockIsland52]

Which of the S2 Turbines DID NOT have magnetraction?  Was that feature first introduced to Lionel's lineup in 1950?

Jack

[lionelsoni]

The 671, which is the same as a 2020, lacked magnetraction. The 681 and 682 had it.

Magnetraction was introduced in 1949 in the 622 and 6220, but not advertised.  It used magnetized hard-iron axles which tended to lose their magnetism and was a failure.  It was re-introduced in 1950 using separate magnets and was a success from that time.

[Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760]

I have a 681 that I stumbled upon for $120, the only issue is that the lettering on one side for both loco and tender is faded some, other than that it is a stout runner.

I have actually given thought to trying to get a 671 to see what the difference is between having magnetraction and not having it.

I run O-27 track with O-42 curves on the mainline, so I don't know if there would be much difference between the two.

All I know is that the strongest engine I presently have is my new Lionel 2-8-4 Southern Baby Berk. That thing will pull all of my Southern Freight cars, and then some of my Southern passenger cars, the not all of the passenger cars have good couplers, and I run out of mainline by then.

Then again, even if there was no difference in pulling power between the 671 and the 681 on my layout, I still want more turbines.  (I am pretty sure quite a few of ya'll would agree.)

In fact I am trying to figure out how to make a S-2 Turbine for my 8 3/4" gauge layout, but that is for another topic.

Everyone enjoy your turbines, and keep on steaming!

[Roger Bielen]

 I would be interested in converting to TMCC.  I have pulled longer trains, with a little initial spinning the wheels.  Roger, how does your 2020 work regarding low end speeds?   Which kit did you use?  And finally, did you also convert the sound?  I also have the 6020 tender on mine.

Thanks,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I did my conversion when TAS first cam out with their system.  Other than a fairly large plug on the tether, used an R/C tether, it was an easy conversion.  I don't have any sounds, they weren't available at the time.  The weight of the engine alone rolling down the track makes a pretty good rumble, after all they didn't chuff.  I picked up an old tender at a show rather than take the whistle out of the original.  Once the motor is loosened up by a few laps around the layout it creeps along pretty well, I don't know about top speed, never tried it.

With today's new electronics you could probably add sound, if a turbine chip is available, or if space allows wire in the air whistle.

Good luck if you try it.

[lionelsoni]

A weight, 671-219, was added to the 671's design between the e-unit and the smoke generator at some point in time.  So later 671s probably pulled better than earlier ones.

[dwiemer]

A weight, 671-219, was added to the 671's design between the e-unit and the smoke generator at some point in time.  So later 671s probably pulled better than earlier ones.

Bob, you are a great resource on this forum...thanks.  Yet more insight to add to the thread.

Dennis

[Anonymous]

Bob,

       I worked on a 671 for a friend, and it had the lead weight.  I figured it was from an early 1947 run because the smoke unit cover fit over the bowl, not inside it as later units did.  It pulled about as well as my 681.  My 2020 from 1946 however is not a very good puller.

[lionelsoni]

The service manual has instructions for retrofitting the weight; so even a very early 671 could have one.

[ezmike]

Guys,

Just an update, I've decided to take possession of the 2020 in question thanks mostly to the information you all have given here. BTW, this 2020 has a lead weight and as stated before, no rims on the middle 2 drivers. As for the smoke bowel cap, I do not remember if it fits over or inside the bowel.

Mike

[runtime]

I have actually given thought to trying to get a 671 to see what the difference is between having magnetraction and not having it.

I run O-27 track with O-42 curves on the mainline, so I don't know if there would be much difference between the two.

 

believe you will find that Magnatraction makes a huge difference.

I have both Magna and Non-Magna versions of Lionel's postwar Hudsons (646 and 2056). The Mag'd 646 pulls 23 cars, while the 2056 just sits there spinning it's wheels.  With a 623 NS-2 Mag-d switcher added, the 2056 will do it. Likewise it takes a pair of early modern Lionel Geeps with traction tires to equal the single 646.

runtime