"THE OLD SCHOOL"

[Anonymous]

Im just curious to know how many of us out there are still of the "old relic school." I OPERATE TRADITIONAL LIONEL & WILLIAMS trains on 1957 lionel super O TRACK. I don't have TMCC, RS, CAB1, command base,ringing bells,NADA! NOTHING! I like the old school. anybody with me??

[jkerklo]

I am with you.

When I first saw the handheld controls, I thought they were the ultimate ... how wonderful! Then I tried one. Not for me. Too complicated, and I have been in the computer business for 40 years. Pushing a handle is so much easier, and more rewarding.

To be fair, I have constructed my layout to run multiple trains on the same track, using relays to turn powered "blocks" on and off. But it runs postwar engines, without any modifications.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

Dear everyone,
You may be in the"OLD SCHOOL," but I'm in the middle ages [:)]! I can't get my trains to run correctly on an oval of track [:)]!

Now that you mention it, I probably should make my railway capable of multiple train operation for conventional locomotives. How would I go about this, by the way?

See you around the forums,
Daniel

[pennsy_fan]

Im "middle school"
I like the convenience of a hand held ,"walk around" throttle control. I still operate in conventional mode, though. I only had one TMCC diesel loco, but the dang thing "gliched" out & wont program. No biggie, it still operates in conventional so, No big deal.Besides, the cost of "total command" is kinda high for me. So I still do things the "Old Fashioned Way".I like my control panel & My kw's work just fine for me.

I have alot of fun working the switches & accesories from the control panel. I find this very relaxing & rewarding & thats what this hobby is all about. Making oneself happy w/ their accomplishments.So Im cool w/conv. cont. I think that total command is neat but Ill leave that to those who really want it. I like what I have :-)

[brianel027]

Gee easter, you haven't been around much? In the few months I've been over here I've noticed a number of conventional operators using old-fashioned tubular track .

In case you've missed some of my posts, I am an unconventional conventional operator. Although many of my locos have the DC can motors, I don't utilize any of the digitial control systems. I run a good many of my engines on DC current (removing circuit boards from those engines) because I find they run smoother and better. Call it poor man's speed control! Even my tradtional open frame motored engines run better on DC. I rebuilt an old scout steamer for a friend's kid - put the roller pick-ups on the tender, which eliminated the accidental reversing caused by engine bounce on switches. And found that little devil also runs much smoother and more quietly on DC current.

I do like the hand-held walk around controller concept that MRC uses. But that's as far as I'd go with it. Maybe the MTH IR controller, but I've been told the control with it isn't that smooth.

I'm glad that TMCC and DCS is there for those who want it. Though working on computers, I know what headaches they can be. And I keep reading of all the problems folks are having with command engines. Some returning engines 2 and 3 times and still having problems with them. Of the couple guys I know using command, they've both had to return engines, including engines that didn't work straight out of the box. This has NEVER happened with any conventional control engine I own. I have enough problems in life the minute I step out the door. Gosh, don't need to add to that with the trains... that's my escape.

On an related thought - electronics are everywhere right? Cell phones, CD players, computers, DVD players. We all know the electronics don't last forever. But I see portable CD players for under $20. DVD players for under $50. I've bought this kind of stuff... you have it for a few years and then replace it. At least the stuff works while you have it. But why is it when it comes to trains, the dollar signs become so much higher for electronics? Starting on average around $300 and well upward. Production costs are lower than ever with everyone manfacturing in China, where wages average around 50¢ per hour last I knew.

What might be interesting is to know from all the guys using command, how many of them are really happy with it - and how many have had to return engines, etc. for repairs. And considering that, is it still worth it? Oh, and the average age of the command user, since I suspect that there aren't too many youngsters using command ($$$) unless dad already has a layout.

[Anonymous]

I'd probably say that I'm from the "old school." My layout is of the traditional tinplate type and uses tubular track and conventional transformer power. Almost all the trains are prewar and postwar.

[Chris F]

Operating a small to medium-sized layout in conventional mode from a central control panel is just fine as long as you can see everything. However, larger layouts (and perhaps advanced age!) can make it difficult to see the whether or not a turnout is in the right position or a car is properly aligned with an accessory.

My layout fills a good portion of my basement, and there are places where I cannot see the train, much less the turnouts. Remote control with a modern ZW and CAB-1 is essential for operating this layout. In addition, I am not tied to a control panel, but can operate everything locally. I figured the money I saved by not having to build a monster control panel just about paid for the ZW and CAB-1.

BTW, although I have TMCC engines, I usually operate older Lionel. If I do run TMCC, it's for coil coupler operation, not sounds.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm afraid that I graduated from the old school a long time ago. I will be in my "LABORATORY" studying the most advanced control and operation techniques in the history of model railroading. Real cutting edge stuff. Total automation, real traffic control, virtual operators, and other things that people have never thought of trying. In real life I'm not much of a thrillseeker, but when it comes to my trains, simple just isn't enough for me anymore.

You guys are welcome to the old ways, there's nothing wrong with that. I guess I just need the added excitement that comes from high tech.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I'm afraid that I graduated from the old school a long time ago. I will be in my "LABORATORY" studying the most advanced control and operation techniques in the history of model railroading. Real cutting edge stuff. Total automation, real traffic control, virtual operators, and other things that people have never thought of trying. In real life I'm not much of a thrillseeker, but when it comes to my trains, simple just isn't enough for me anymore.

You guys are welcome to the old ways, there's nothing wrong with that. I guess I just need the added excitement that comes from high tech.

I'm with you BB. Give me computer control and the latest electronic gadget! Where would I be without the 153 IR controller? Oh...I can answer that---MESSING AROUND WITH SPRINGS AND CONTACTORS and pulling what's left of my hair off my head! Just one example. But the old school ways are fun too. Just different. I don't grudge anyone anything--just have FUN FUN FUN!

[spankybird]

Hi All,

Well, I will add my thoughts.

I have two layouts, the main layout is 10’ x 20’ and is powered by a ZW and KW with DCS. I agree, with a layout of this size, the hand held controller is really nice to have. I also will run three or four trains at once.

My second layout is my circus layout which is 5’ x 8’. This is also powered by a ZW. I usually run one of the two circus engines that I have, both are MTH with PS2. I run the in the conventional mold.

I mostly run MTH PS2 or PS1 steam engines. I do run my postwar Lionel on the main layout. This is the nice part of DCS, you can run both conventional and control engines at the same time, on the same track. Best of both worlds.

The seasonal Christmas layout is a 750 MTH block with inferred control. It had the conventional controller and I upgraded it to the inferred so I could run it from my chair.

Click on the web icon at the bottom of this posting to see some of my layouts.

[Anonymous]

thank you all gentlemen,for your input on "the old school." i just wanted to make sure i wasn't alone out there.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Nah Easter, you were never alone, even those of us who have graduated from the "old school" still remember our days spent there, and I'm sure most, fondly.[:D][;)]

[restoman]

Some like High Tech some like Low Tech. It really doesn't matter, everyone has there own opinion. But my hat goes off to all you guys, after all these years we're still playing with our Cho Cho Trains! Frankly my wife and kids think I'm nuts. But , these same kids will be playing with video games when their kids are into teleportation pods.

[mersenne6]

Hmmmm... I don't know easter, your layout sounds pretty advanced to me... if you are calling 1957 old school then I guess I'm from the WiWa period -wind 'em up and watch 'em run - clockwork cast iron engines, light sheet metal cars and track with manual trips so you can trigger the reversing mechanism as the train rolls past...of course a couple of the engines do have a bell ringer that can be turned on and off so I suppose that could be considered high tech....[:)]

[cnw1995]

I guess I'm going to be way old school - trying to get this 248 to run;
Anyway, I prefer conventional mode for the selfish reason that it's simpler for an electrical novice and ten-thumbed wonder. And I'm a refugee from N scale where I had DCC everything. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

I presently operate TWO layouts one consisting of PRE-WAR Standard Gauge
trains, track ,turnouts and accessories. Most have been working since they
were originally manufactured with NOTHING more than normal preventive
maintenance. (Clean, oil, dust) The Locos, and rolling stock are also original
PRE-WAR. They have survived 80+ years of setting up, dismantling, packing,
unpacking, and a few relocation/moves. All work nicely.

My O Gauge layout also consists of PRE-WAR track, turnouts, accessories and
locos/rolling stock. All in original condition (with years of enjoyment). I also run
my POST-WAR locos and rolling stock on this layout with NO problems. Again,
all of this stuff had been set up and taken down DOZENS of times. The ONLY
maintenance required was what was specified by the original amnufacturer.

I don't see this a possible now with the newer stuff being built. Quality is just
not there. I have repaired/reworked several pieces of newer products (ALL
manufacturers) for others that have been built since the 1980's. Yet the price
goes up.

The other drawback I see with newer production is that it is not "user-friendly"
or repairable by the owner. One must seek out a repair facility (rapidly dis-
appearing) or send it back to the factory for exchange. Motors and electronics
are built to be single-use/disposable items. I have trains that are approaching
100 years old and they are STILL rebuildable needing only a screwdriver, a pair
of needle-nose pliers, and maybe a soldering iron. Motors are built to be dis-
assembled and rebuilt/rehabbed. Cars are built so they can have broken parts
easily replaced by the owner. Transformers can even be rebuilt and rehabbed.

Where will today's trains and accessories be 10, 20 even 50 years from now?

Makes one think......

[Anonymous]

i am all conventional control, all postwar engines and locos with a mix of postwar and modern rolling stock and accessories.
after i rebuild my table i may look into a few newer items... but i dont have money to rebuild so how will i have money to buy new stuff???

we'll see.

[Anonymous]

I fall into this group.
I was a 50's Lionel guy to start; got caught up in the new stuff, including Railking, TMCC and the 'latest' innovations. I found out that I really LIKED the older stuff. In fact, I went even older!
I'm back to where I started, but with a little prewar flavor, spanning the period from '40 to '54.
AND, I'm a huge Frank Ellison fan! Anyone on board with THAT???

[Kooljock1]

I do "old school" on the floor with my kids. But my big layout in the trainroom is TMCC. I think this is for two reasons. First, because I like to walk around with my trains, and I like the fact that I've been able to locate the accessory buttons around the layout near them.

And the second reason is because I'm lazy! No relays, no blocks, no insulated loops. Just pure 18v running everywhere and ONE wire to the Command Base!

It just doesn't get easier than that!

Jon [8D]

[johnnyc]

Still use an old ZW , it's very reliable . All locos are new conventional models .

johnnyc

[brianel027]

"No relays, no blocks, no insulated loops. Just pure 18v running everywhere and ONE wire to the Command Base!"

I gotta admit Jon, that's one thing that is kind of a turn on to using TMCC. I have wires going all over the place under my layout. Sure, it's fun (?) in it's own way. But when I think about avoiding all that wiring, all those switches, etc. that's one area where "control" becomes a tempting idea.

[Dr. John]

I am very much "old school!" Tubular track, post-war and Williams, with a KW for power.

Now if I just had a layout for all this stuff! [;)]

[Anonymous]

I crossed over last year and got TMCC . It has it's up's and downs as does most things.
I still have plenty of conv. to run as well.
Keith

[nitroboy]

I will say I'm "Old School". I do not own anything newer than 1976 in my collection. For two reasons. One - I like simple things to unwind with. I don't want to spend hours trying to 'lash-up' loco's and get so upset I just want to cry. Two - I can't afford the new stuff. E-bay is a wonderful place to get old stuff in poor shape cheap. I'm pretty good at fixing stuff, so the worse off, the better.

Dave

[Anonymous]

My layout at home is conventional, but the club layout that is at the Oak Ridge Mall runs both conventional and TMCC. I have not purchased the hand held unit for TMCC. I like to run conventional trains from the mid 30's up to new stuff that Williams and MTH sells that is not electronic.

[Frank in Steam]

Since this is my first post, I'd like to introduce myself. I am an admitted train gourmand - I like it if its a train. But I do have my preferences: obviously from my name - steam locomotives, the NYC & DL&W are my faves, scale dimensioned toy trains, pushing & pulling a transformer handle for control.
Frank Dz

[KeithL]

I have both.

My 6' x 10' layout is conventional. It has three loops: one O27, one Super O, and one O54. On this layout, I run postwar Lionel, as well as Williams, K-Line and MTH PS1.

My other layout, which I'm still completing, runs around the walls of my train room. The track is Lionel O72 tubular, but operation is 100% TMCC. Track power is from a Lionel PowerHouse 180, and a Lionel SC-2 controls the switches and some of the accessories. I run three Lionel TMCC engines on this layout. I still have three blocks so I can "park" trains.

I enjoy the unique aspects of both "old school" and command-controlled trains.

Keith

[Anonymous]

I can't afford the Lionel, MTH or Williams so I've purposely stayed really old school. I know some say they aren't real trains but I run all Marx. I have three loops on an L-shaped, 17' x 7' x 4' board. The outside and inside are separate loops with the middle loop dumping into four spurs - all Marx switches. I use all Marx power too - two 100w and one 50w on mostly K Line (042) & Marx (034) track.

I'd love to "play" with the computer control stuff sometime just to try it out. And who knows, maybe I'll try to convert a Marx diesel to DCC someday, but for now I love the smell & sound of the old Marx engines running over tubular track!

~Q

[RI Jim]

I was part of the "Old School" until I tried TMCC and was blown away with the ease of use and the flexibility Command Control offers. I have both DCS and TMCC and have had no trouble with wiring them or using them both. Howver, there is something satisfying about grabbing the throttle of an old ZW and running conventional, so I can understand why some folks still stick to what they know and enjoy best. I just think it's great now that folks have a choice. Enjoy your trains, that's what the hobby's all about!

[johnsgg1]

I was "old School". When I first saw TMCC advertised I just brushed it off. No way-no how. I liked the K's, Z's, L's and so on. And tubular was OK with me. I had a ton of it.

My wife bought me a Cab-1 and Powermaster for Christmas '95. She ordered from Ro, we were stationed in Hawaii. She twisted my arm, so to speak. The best gift she ever got me. I've never looked back.

I still have tubular, and all my Lionel PRR from 1946 on, but now it all operates using the Cab-1.

A new ZW sits alongside on old ZW , KW , "K" and others and powers Lionel "0" gauge track. It's all compatible and a ball to operate.

I even service my trains in a room 30+ feet and around corners and thru doorways from the Command Base. My engines pick up the command signal and I use a Cab-1 to execute functions.

So I guess I'm "old school" that got hooked on "new school" and I don't look back.