I guess I should start a new thread for this one, on the advise of many on here I'm going to try to get that 2020 running!
So I took it apart, blew it out with air compressor, tooth brush, then took a dremel & wire brush to attempt to find the wheels under all the rust. So far so good, too the motor off, added a big drop of gear oil where the worm gear and axel gear meet. after I took off the side things (sorry about my lack of knowledge) that tie the wheels togather, most moved freely, so just added a little wd-40 to try to make them move easier.
Stuck it on the track, I can make the light, light up, but no motor movement. If I slide the lever in the middle to make contact, it buzzes and raises something in the middle of it, but still no motor movement.
Where do I go from here? It's getting power, just not to the motor, it appears all the wires are soldiered and solid, noting broken or loose. Can I take a volt meter to see where the problem is? Is the thing in the middle (E-unit???) broken, if so how do I fix/replace it? What does it do?
Is there a lube point on the motor? If so where & what to use?
Thanks for all the help so far, I'm goint to remove the side rails and give the cab a spray paint job
The buzzing is probably the E unit. It may be stuck in Neutral that it is not cycling and so the motor is not turning. On the other hand, it could also be the brushes are so gummed up that they are not getting power to the armature. Try turning the wheels by hand. Make sure nothing is bound. Brushes and brush holders need to be cleanded out and NO OIL in this area. Also, the commutator needs to be cleaned. Do this and let us know. Then we can go on from here.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
The buzzing is the e-unit, what ever that is/does. it only buzzes when the lever is set to make contact with the little circle on the circuit board, move lever nothing happens.
Brushes in the motor? It spins freely by hand, as does the main axel when both are seperated from each other. When assembled there is a smal spot that binds up, about every turn & 1/2 - 2 turns of the loco wheels, make me think it's somewhere in the motor.
I poped the e unit out, sprayed some wd40 on the bottom of it, popped it back in and the motor attempted to move. It'll spin some then stop, start, then stop. But it's loud, pretty 'rattely' sounding(?) How do I clean the brushes & brush holders? Any way to lube the motor?
Armature?
also can the main wheels be replaced? One of the front wheels is missing the backing needed to keep it on the track, or will front trucks be enough to hold it in place one I get those. Which will come with a screw, but now I need to figure out how to remove the broken off screw that is deep down in there now
Thanks!
The e-unit is what reverses the motor. Yours is what is called a universal motor. It has armature windings accessed through two carbon brushes which rub on the three copper segments of the commutator and a stationary field winding. The armature and field are wired in series. One end of the field winding is connected to the frame of the motor and therefore to the frame of the locomotive, the wheels, and the outside rails of the track. The other end of the field winding goes to the center terminal on the plastic brushholder and thence to the e-unit. The e-unit has two other connections, to the brushes. Its job is to connect the armature in series with the field winding. Which brush it connects to the field winding determines which way the motor will run. It connects the other brush to the center-rail pickup to complete the circuit. One end of the e-unit's coil is also connected to the pickup. The other end is connected to the frame through the switch on the e-unit.
The e-unit contains a plastic drum with copper segments on it that are touched--or not--by six metal fingers. The position of the drum determines which way the brushes are connected. The e-unit coil sucks in an iron armature which moves a pawl to rotate the drum by pulling on the plastic teeth around its middle. Each time you turn on the track voltage, the e-unit thus steps to the next position, unless you shut it off with the switch.
You will need to replace the wheel that is missing its flange. Only four of them should have flanges. The inner ones are supposed to be "blind". It is unfortunately a tricky matter to get the angle correct so that the side rods do not bind.
Use grease on the worm gear, oil on the side rods.
Bob Nelson
If the engine is missing a flange on one of the wheels (as Bob says, only the front and rear sets on the main drivers have flanges, the two sets of middle drivers do not have them), I would suggest this may be over your ability. You would need to position the wheel correctly and though you may do it with home made tools, you need a "wheel puller" and a arbor press to replace. You can work on the rest of the engine by fixing what you can and just take the lower frame with wheel sets to a repair shop to have them do it.
Your right, I don't have the right tools, and I almost bought a set of wheels on ebay. whew.
Now onto both tenders, there is nothing happening when I set them on the track and press the whistle or bell buttons. I'm hoping my new transformer will control these old cars?
If so, where do i need to start looking? All the wires seem atached, there doesn't seem to be moving parts.
Oh I guess it helps for those not folowing my other post, these are 2671W & 2020W
They don't need a loco to whistle do they?
You shouldn't need a locomotive for these to work. They do have motors in them and, just like the engine, they have brushes, an armature, etc. First, take off the tender shell (do only one at a time as you don't want to confuse the parts). Then, you will see a brush plate. You remove the brush plate, but be carefull not to lose the brushes and springs when the plate comes off. You can use mineral spirits to remove the crud on the brush plate and in the brush holders by dipping a Q-tip in the spirits and rubbing the black off. I have used a pencil eraser on the commutator end of the armature. Then, use a toothpick to clean the crud from the space between the three sections of the commutator. A single drop of oil on the distal end of the armature. Reassemble. Also, check the solder joints on the wires. Most times, the older wire would need replacing. It usually gets brittle and the outside cracks. This should be replaced by "SuperFlex" wire. Make sure you have a good connection to the pickup roller.
I would suggest getting a copy of "Greenburg's guide to Lionel trains 1945-69". This manual has a lot of information to maintain and operate these pieces.
Do you have the voltage turned up when you are pressing the whistle button?
If that's not the problem, take the shell off the tender. You will find the whistle itself, with a motor much like that in the locomotive, and a relay. With the track voltage up, lift the armature on the bottom of the relay to close the contact. If the motor runs, the trouble is upstream of the relay, otherwise downstream.
Voltage up, no action at all. The relay is the coil? More like a solenoid? You'd think 3 years of electronics in high school would stick better! Anyway I used a screwdriver to press the bottom of the relay to the top, still nothing. Even replaced one broken wire from one of the rollers, still nothing. Took the motor apart, cleaned up all the contacts. Cleaned up most of the rust off the wheels, I assume they are part of the circuit?
Not sure what else to check. Guess I might have to send them to a repair shop.
Thanks for all the help!
Here's the next thing to try:
One end of the motor's field coil goes over to the relay. With the tender on the track, connect a wire from that point to the outside rails (or to the corresponding transformer terminal). The other end of the field coil connects to one of the motor brushes. Connect the other brush to the center rail (or transformer terminal). Does the motor try to run?
If it does, try removing each wire. Whichever one makes the motor stop indicates an open circuit that needs to be found and fixed.
That is a relay. A solenoid has an open center and works by sucking a piece of iron in, as I described the e-unit. The whistle relay has a couple of copper washers on the bottom end that shield the armature from the magnetic flux produced by the AC track voltage, but have no effect on the DC flux superimposed on the track voltage by the whistle control, which operates the relay to turn on the whistle motor.
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