What do you think needs to be produced by Lionel?

[bub]

More affordable tmcc train's. The average guy married with kids cannot afford the really cool stuff offered by lionel. With Kids now a-days everythings handheld and wireless. The cheapest tmcc controlled train is $450. to 1700. dollars I surely can't afford that, I wish I could. Don't get me wrong I know every company need to make money and be profitable but if you want to get more kids in today's enviroment interested you got make it more realistic for the average earner. Mth seems to be a little more affordable so I may be leanin towards there stuff when my little guy gets older ,for right now though looks like we'll have to be happy with a whistle button.

 (This has to be the coolest site)

 Aaron Dilbeck

[dougdagrump]

I agree Brent, but another question yet to be answered is "how long will Big L continue to market TMCC after Legacy has been fully operational and widely in use for a period time" ? Or will the original TMCC become an aftermarket add-on licensed to TAS, DD and ERR (even though there already is a relationship between ERR and Big L).

                          

[Anonymous]

trainsfan,

This is why I feel selling engines that are conventionally equiped, but upgradable to TMCC/Legacy with add-in boards is the better route. Also, the boards should be available through service centers only, if selling to individuals they should be made fully aware that Lionel does not gaurantee the boards unless they are installed by a service center.

They did this for a few years starting maybe around 2000, that is how I got started with TMCC. I have two sets of the B&O FT's that I bought the plug-n-play boards and a pair of D&H C-420's one that came w/TMMC and the other, issued the same year, that I upgraded the same as the FT's.

Not being privy to the cost breakdowns I don't know what the cost difference would be to market them as upgradeable. However it seems as though if they were upgradeable, on a P&P basis, it would be a good way to get your foot in the door in anticipation of additional sales of upgrade parts. But that brings up another question as to wheather "upgrading " is even feasible with Legacy systems.

I would also think that their production costs would go down.  When Brent mentioned that Lionel should offer easy upgrades, I thought it was a great idea.  I did not realize Lionel had already tried this.  Jerry Calabrese talks about the funnel theory.  Doug hits the nail on the head, by giving owners and easy upgrade path to TMCC (and even to Legacy) Lionel has a chance to make the funnel larger. 

I would be curious to know if providing a "P&P" option is really more expensive than making a conventional locomotive.

Regards,

John

I'm not saying make some that are upgradable and some that aren't, I'm saying make them ALL upgradable. Then you don't have to change marketing at all, it is either TMCC or it is conventional (upgradable).

I've seen a couple engines in the latest catalog that are 'TMCC Ready' which means they are not TMCC now, but you can upgrade them to TMCC at some point.

I don't think Legacy Upgrades are necessary, just upgrades to TMCC. You can still operate TMCC engines in Legacy - just without all the extras.

My problem is right now most of the items produced are upgradable with the ERR boards, but how does the everyday layman know what board to purchase? That is what my problem is... if ALL engines are upgradeable then they just need a list of what engines are compatible with each board....

[RockIsland52]

I think a lot of great ideas like the upgradeables didn't take off simply because there was no promotion, and no promotion because there was no money to do it.  Train magazines are a start.  But print media ain't cutting it for Lionel or the others.  At the least it is not reaching a broad enough audience

Maybe many of you will disagree, but I don't think it was an accident that some of the best recent sellers are hooked to something the kids and parents SEE (movie, tv commercial) and the parents make the connection to a purchase.  PE, Hogwarts, Thomas, etc.  I agree with the funnel comments.  

I've got to go back to developing my Christmas 2008 Budweiser commercial that has the Lionel trains with Nascar freight cars circling around the Christmas tree, replacing the Clydesdales routine.  And perhaps a Clydesdale can be peering in the frosted family room window and shaking his head as if to say "YES, GO FOR IT!"

Jack

PS: You also better believe that the marketing folks at the train manufacturers are reading the many train forums and are chomping at the bit at threads such as this.

[1688torpedo]

 

I like Mike's sense of Humor with the Burp-Oh Beer Car & I do not even drink at all. Maybe a Charlie Horse Dog Food Reefer would be an excellent seller also. Take Care all.

[Blueberryhill RR]

" What do I think needs to be produced by Lionel ? "

Something Made in the USA !!!

[johnandjulie13]

trainsfan,

This is why I feel selling engines that are conventionally equiped, but upgradable to TMCC/Legacy with add-in boards is the better route. Also, the boards should be available through service centers only, if selling to individuals they should be made fully aware that Lionel does not gaurantee the boards unless they are installed by a service center.

They did this for a few years starting maybe around 2000, that is how I got started with TMCC. I have two sets of the B&O FT's that I bought the plug-n-play boards and a pair of D&H C-420's one that came w/TMMC and the other, issued the same year, that I upgraded the same as the FT's.

Not being privy to the cost breakdowns I don't know what the cost difference would be to market them as upgradeable. However it seems as though if they were upgradeable, on a P&P basis, it would be a good way to get your foot in the door in anticipation of additional sales of upgrade parts. But that brings up another question as to wheather "upgrading " is even feasible with Legacy systems.

I would also think that their production costs would go down.  When Brent mentioned that Lionel should offer easy upgrades, I thought it was a great idea.  I did not realize Lionel had already tried this.  Jerry Calabrese talks about the funnel theory.  Doug hits the nail on the head, by giving owners and easy upgrade path to TMCC (and even to Legacy) Lionel has a chance to make the funnel larger. 

I would be curious to know if providing a "P&P" option is really more expensive than making a conventional locomotive.

Regards,

John

[Tulyar15]

One more idea, more euro trains, they seem to be selling well.
I would recommend the Mallard.

With the current exchange rate between Sterling and the US$, Lionel trains are exceptional value. I'm trying to persuade a buddy here in England who's got the space for O gauge to buy the Harry Potter set!

From what I've seen, the Harry Potter set is a good representation of a GWR "Hall" class 4-6-0 (over 300 built) and likewise the passenger cars are the ubiquitous British Rail Mk1's of the 1950's which carried many liveries in their 40+ year lifespan and many survive both on preserved lines and for use on main line charter trains.

An A4 Pacific could also be offered as "Spencer" for the Thomas range. Hopefully if sales of this hold up and HIT Entertainment dont demand too big a share of the profits, some of the items suggested by Dougdagrump could be made. Like the class 08 shunter ("Evil Diesel") most of these are based on real locos and so could be offered in authentic guise.

Perhaps to appease Modern Image enthusiasts a class 66 could be offered, as these are now common in Europe as well as Britain. I think a WW2 US Army 0-6-0T would have wide appeal too; examples of the real ones are still in use in E. Europe and China.

[dougdagrump]

trainsfan,

This is why I feel selling engines that are conventionally equiped, but upgradable to TMCC/Legacy with add-in boards is the better route. Also, the boards should be available through service centers only, if selling to individuals they should be made fully aware that Lionel does not gaurantee the boards unless they are installed by a service center.

They did this for a few years starting maybe around 2000, that is how I got started with TMCC. I have two sets of the B&O FT's that I bought the plug-n-play boards and a pair of D&H C-420's one that came w/TMMC and the other, issued the same year, that I upgraded the same as the FT's.

Not being privy to the cost breakdowns I don't know what the cost difference would be to market them as upgradeable. However it seems as though if they were upgradeable, on a P&P basis, it would be a good way to get your foot in the door in anticipation of additional sales of upgrade parts. But that brings up another question as to wheather "upgrading " is even feasible with Legacy systems.

[RockIsland52]

"first most guys here are older guys who had lionel in their childhood. they need to keep catering to us. I like the reissues of postwar stuff and the tin stuff. "

Not necessarily. Some of us were too young (or in my case not born yet!) to get the good stuff the first time around. And we want a chance to have it all minty-new now!

OF course, we'd also like CAN motors, cruise, and RailSounds... but not in the Pre-War thank you!

Jon

A couple of months back on this forum somewhere, someone started a thread looking for ages and came up with an average age.  Unscientific but interesting.  Not enough repondents.  The average age (not mean age) was younger than I expected.

Jack 

[RockIsland52]

"first most guys here are older guys who had lionel in their childhood. they need to keep catering to us. I like the reissues of postwar stuff and the tin stuff. "

Not necessarily. Some of us were too young (or in my case not born yet!) to get the good stuff the first time around. And we want a chance to have it all minty-new now!

OF course, we'd also like CAN motors, cruise, and RailSounds... but not in the Pre-War thank you!

Jon

Yes, the train companies are compelled to serve a market with extremely diverse interests.  Nurture the roots and sow the seeds, so to speak.  That can get get pretty dicey, and expensive.  Just look at the laundry list that has been compiled here.  Then think of the financial condition of the combatants.

Jack 

[37fleetwood]

here here!! is MTH the only one with a sense of humour? I like the idea of accurate prototypical

stuff as much as the next guy but you have to admit this is really funny. lets have more fairy tale stuff!

Scott 

 

[3railguy]

I would like to see Lionel do a series of coffee boxcars. Coffee boxcars would be for the most part fairy tale cars but that's something Lionel can get away with. If you look at coffee can art over the past century, there is what seems like an endless rainbow of bold, crisp coffee labels for Lionel to choose from. I know a number of trainheads can relate to coffee and Lionel has done well with other brand label cars such as beer and tabacco. Whether the cars come from the scale or traditional variety needs a lot of thought maybe. I'm sure there would be some liscencing agreements to work out but the "man" is pretty good at working out deals like that.

[dougdagrump]

Speaking from my grandson's point of view:

Toby,

Cranky the Crane,

Edward,

Gordon,

Forgot the name of the railbus, must be senility.

[Andrew Falconer]

The LionMaster Union Pacific Turbine "Veranda" Locomotive would fit with the series.

 

Should it have a plastic body or a Die-Cast Metal Body?

 

Plastic or Die-Cast Metal is a choice somebody will have to make.

 

Andrew

[fjerome]

lionmaster veranda

[Jumijo]

I've been waiting over a year for a scale SF F3 B unit, so I guess I'll wish for that. Or I'll just sell the A unit and move on.

Jim 

[GregM]

In the 2000 volume 1 catalog, Lionel offered several engines in "command" and "traditional" versions.  The traditional version was generally $100.00 less than the command version.  This only lasted a few catalogs.  I remember (correct me if you know differently) the explanation given when this was discontinued, was that the traditional engines were not selling in large enough quantities to justify their production. 

I would be very surprised if Lionel decided to offer command & traditional engines together a second time.  I do agree with the idea of a command/traditional operation mode switch on engines.   

[Kooljock1]

"first most guys here are older guys who had lionel in their childhood. they need to keep catering to us. I like the reissues of postwar stuff and the tin stuff. "

Not necessarily. Some of us were too young (or in my case not born yet!) to get the good stuff the first time around. And we want a chance to have it all minty-new now!

OF course, we'd also like CAN motors, cruise, and RailSounds... but not in the Pre-War thank you!

Jon

[37fleetwood]

Hi, just read the post and replies so far. sounds like Lionel should read these forums. I have two angles on this. first most guys here are older guys who had lionel in their childhood. they need to keep catering to us. I like the reissues of postwar stuff and the tin stuff. next angle, lionel made its reputation in making trains for fathers to play with their sons. they need to concentrate on starter sets! and with todays electronics they all need to have railsounds for starter prices. it is ridiculous that MTH can do this but not lionel. electronics are cheap. I can go to the grocery store and get a birthday card with more sophisticated sounds than the lionel starters. if you want to get this generation of nintendo kids you have to make them worth looking at.

as a side note my 5 year old nephew will 10 to 1 go for steam over diesel. it's the action, side rods, smoke, generally more to see.

Scott 

[rockn77]

An F-7 Texas & Pacific.... Not a Missouri Pacific, but a T&P....  There are enough Steamers out there on the market by Lionel and MTH already. 

[Anonymous]

Just thought of something else...

A way to upload custom sound sets to the engines.

 Sniff...sniff....Smell like an MTH idea....

Yes, but I have a VERY good reason to want to do this... I need a TMCC engine but with custom railsounds...

[anjdevil2]

Just thought of something else...

A way to upload custom sound sets to the engines.

 Sniff...sniff....Smell like an MTH idea....

[Anonymous]

Just thought of something else...

A way to upload custom sound sets to the engines.

[Anonymous]

trainsfan,
I have a TMCC C&O Berk that puffs just fine when running in conventional mode, with no modifications. Keep in mind that the TMCC engines are designed to run with the 18v constant supply recommended for TMCC operation.

This is why I feel selling engines that are conventionally equiped, but upgradable to TMCC/Legacy with add-in boards is the better route. Also, the boards should be available through service centers only, if selling to individuals they should be made fully aware that Lionel does not gaurantee the boards unless they are installed by a service center.

[anjdevil2]

Well, the CNJ question has been answered, they're making a John Bull, just looking for 1 more thing.....

Tropicana reefers Orange &/or White....mulitple numbers 6 car set...I like them way they come from Florida to Jersey City...and, no, if MTH made them, I just ain't interested.... and I liket the TMCC option...

I haven't seen any FEC containers (I have pictures), though I have seen on occasion, FEC well cars.  Most that I've seen are TTX or CSX (and some CSX containers).  I get to run past the FEC mainline going to & from work (If you mapquest it, Greenland Road near US1 Zip 32257).

Just an observation....

[trainsfan]

How about O27 track in a radius between 27 and 42".

Also steam engines that smoke like an MTH.  Why couldn't they make tmcc engines with a conventional/tmcc switch for conventional operators who buy tmcc engines and want it to smoke out of the box.  Pretty disapointing when you buy a new steamer and it smokes tiny wisps about invisible.

Also more mid-priced sets.  Most sets are either 150-300 dollars or 900-1000 dollars.

And they should put quality first. example: Don't make diesel starter engines with 1 motor/power truck that cant pull anything.  They just turn people away with things like that.

The reason they don't have a switch is because TMCC engines are conventional - no need for a switch, TMCC engines run in conventional mode when the Command Base is not present.

Also, most people who want only conventional engines don't want to pay for the TMCC electronics (this adds $$$ to the engine's cost).

What I would do, if I were Jerry, is take the price of the TMCC engine, subtract the cost of the TMCC boards, and sell the engines in conventional only for that price (Say the TMCC board is $150, and the TMCC engine costs $450, sell the conventional only for $300 and the upgrade board for $150) They get greater coverage, more affordable engines, AND potential future revenue from the upgrade kits.

As for the smoke units... MTH sued Lionel over this very thing... there's your answer.

 

Lionroar88:   I know the engines will run without a switch, But it would be nice if they had a switch for conventional and the engine would actually smoke out of the box.  That or they should put on the box:  Puffing smoke unit which makes next to zero smoke with your conventional transformers.  Why not try for 100 percent customer satisfaction?  :)

[Anonymous]

How about O27 track in a radius between 27 and 42".

Also steam engines that smoke like an MTH.  Why couldn't they make tmcc engines with a conventional/tmcc switch for conventional operators who buy tmcc engines and want it to smoke out of the box.  Pretty disapointing when you buy a new steamer and it smokes tiny wisps about invisible.

Also more mid-priced sets.  Most sets are either 150-300 dollars or 900-1000 dollars.

And they should put quality first. example: Don't make diesel starter engines with 1 motor/power truck that cant pull anything.  They just turn people away with things like that.

The reason they don't have a switch is because TMCC engines are conventional - no need for a switch, TMCC engines run in conventional mode when the Command Base is not present.

Also, most people who want only conventional engines don't want to pay for the TMCC electronics (this adds $$$ to the engine's cost).

What I would do, if I were Jerry, is take the price of the TMCC engine, subtract the cost of the TMCC boards, and sell the engines in conventional only for that price (Say the TMCC board is $150, and the TMCC engine costs $450, sell the conventional only for $300 and the upgrade board for $150) They get greater coverage, more affordable engines, AND potential future revenue from the upgrade kits.

As for the smoke units... MTH sued Lionel over this very thing... there's your answer.

[trainsfan]

How about O27 track in a radius between 27 and 42".

Also steam engines that smoke like an MTH.  Why couldn't they make tmcc engines with a conventional/tmcc switch for conventional operators who buy tmcc engines and want it to smoke out of the box.  Pretty disapointing when you buy a new steamer and it smokes tiny wisps about invisible.

Also more mid-priced sets.  Most sets are either 150-300 dollars or 900-1000 dollars.

And they should put quality first. example: Don't make diesel starter engines with 1 motor/power truck that cant pull anything.  They just turn people away with things like that.