The big difference was that the 2343s had magnatraction and the 2333s did not.
Smaller differences include nickle plated ladders on some 2333s and GM decals in different areas on the 2333s.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
PostwarMan07 wrote: Thanks guys. These things are beasts! I added another 6 cars to bring the total up to 34 cars going about 30 scale mph on 12 volts.These things growl and reak of ozone...Im in heaven.
Thanks guys. These things are beasts! I added another 6 cars to bring the total up to 34 cars going about 30 scale mph on 12 volts.
These things growl and reak of ozone...Im in heaven.
John,
In the 14+ hours between your "I gave in" post and your last post, did you happen to eat or go to sleep? This reminds me of Christmas 1954 when I got my first train and only turned the trains off to go take a leak.
Now turn off your trains, pay the electric bill, and go looking for a B unit.
Jim,
I know the SF 2333's were 1948-1949 and the 2343's 1950-1952. Were there any differences in them?
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
RockIsland52 wrote:Jim may know the answer to this, but didn't the SF 2343's have wire mesh grills on the roofs to cool the engine whereas the 2353 had plastic sealed fake vents and then a raised molded nub to prevent the body from warping from the heat? I like them both anyway.I recently posted that I took a pass on a pair of 2343's on consignment at a local train store. They were nice, but not $650 nice, and they came without boxes. I commented in my post that since I always wanted the pair that I should have just purchased them. At least I could see them up close and personal and have the shop road test them for me. Glad I didn't, they were simply overpriced. Maybe I should have hired William Shattner as my negotiator. Jack
Jim may know the answer to this, but didn't the SF 2343's have wire mesh grills on the roofs to cool the engine whereas the 2353 had plastic sealed fake vents and then a raised molded nub to prevent the body from warping from the heat? I like them both anyway.
I recently posted that I took a pass on a pair of 2343's on consignment at a local train store. They were nice, but not $650 nice, and they came without boxes. I commented in my post that since I always wanted the pair that I should have just purchased them. At least I could see them up close and personal and have the shop road test them for me. Glad I didn't, they were simply overpriced. Maybe I should have hired William Shattner as my negotiator.
The 2333s and 2343s had wire mesh vents on top. 2353s and later units had slotted vents without the mesh, and also do not have the grab handles at the front of the cabs.
I'm in the market for a set of NYC 2344s. I'm not going to pay more than $300 for a set. I'd go as high as $425 for an ABA set. And I'm not adverse to a nice set of 2354s. I just like the paint scheme.
$650 is outrageous for a set without boxes. Even for an ABA set. You were smart to pass on those, Jack!
John, congratulations on your purchase. Best of luck cleaning them up. Enjoy those beauties!
PostwarMan07 wrote: WELL I GAVE IN...Although I admitt I overpaid Im extremely happy with the product. Thanks to everyone for their help...will add pictures when I get the chance...and the turtle wax
WELL I GAVE IN...
Although I admitt I overpaid Im extremely happy with the product. Thanks to everyone for their help...will add pictures when I get the chance...and the turtle wax
You gave in means you liked them well enough which is the important part. As far as overpaying, we have our own opinions as what stuff is worth to us and shared them with you. But, what it is worth to you is what really counts so enjoy.
Congratulations! In the big scheme of things, the price of your 2353's is probably less than your car depreciates in a month, so have fun.
Jack.
I GAVE THE ENGINES ANOTHER INSPECTION AND CONCLUDED:
The scratches could be rubed out except 2 of them that were from missing paint.
There were no missing pieces or cracks that I overlooked before.
The sparking stoped almost completely when they put the engines on different, cleaner track.
They let me run them on their layout while they helped other customers. I tested them in both directions at various speeds and was very impressed with how smooth they ran.
The battery compartment was free of any damage.
Not a spot of rust on the inside or outside of either units.
Electro couplers worked.
They gave me a D battery and the horn sounded at all voltages perfectly.
They showed me the magnetraction by hanging a screwdriver by the wheels in the air. I had to pull a little harder than usual to get the powered unit off the tracks.
They gave me a garuntee that all features will work great or they'd fix it.
SO I DECIDED TO GO FOR IT.
I took them home and ran them both directions with no trouble. Then I slowly added cars until I reached 28 These include heavy cars like a 3462, two 3461s, and a 3469. At 10 volts they started without slipping at all pulling those 28 cars smooth as silk.
ezmike wrote:Just my two cents, Santa Fe F3's are out there to be had the right price for you. Of course their cosmetic appearence will play a role in the cost as will boxes (if they mean anything to you). My advice is to decide what that price is and to have patience. Mike
Totally agree. The sparking of the rollers bothers me. "The motors are trying to draw all the power they can" really means there is something wrong. The fact he has to bring his own battery in to test the horn tells me it likely doesn't work. 2353's are less desireable than 2343's so it's best to be patient. $400 seems awful steep.
Mike,
I'll always be here whenever you need a dope slap back to your senses!
Enjoy those 2344s, you lucky dog!
I think I'm with you on that one. I'm going to leave well enough alone. Thanks for bringing me back to my senses! (I thought I felt a slap to the back of my head. It must have been you typing your reply)
Mike
ezmike wrote:Hey Jim,I'd like to try something on those NYC F3's I showed you. I'm surprised that polishing compound didn't do any harm. Even when I was just cleaning up the F3's the white stripes were pretty delicate. If I remember from my "car" days, compound of any kind takes some amount of paint with it even if it is polishing compound. What brand did you use? I'm inclinded to go with a clear coat of some kind. Mike
Hey Jim,
I'd like to try something on those NYC F3's I showed you. I'm surprised that polishing compound didn't do any harm. Even when I was just cleaning up the F3's the white stripes were pretty delicate. If I remember from my "car" days, compound of any kind takes some amount of paint with it even if it is polishing compound. What brand did you use? I'm inclinded to go with a clear coat of some kind.
Turtle Wax Clear Coat polishing compound, Mike. The only delicate areas I came across on the 2343s were the rubber stamped red, yellow, and black stripes. I'm sure that the white stripes on a 2344 are also rubber stamped and need to be handled carefully. And yes, the compound does remove a small amount of paint. It will remove a lot of paint if one isn't careful. I'd leave well enough alone as far as your 2344s go. They are too nice as is.
Just my two cents, Santa Fe F3's are out there to be had the right price for you. Of course their cosmetic appearence will play a role in the cost as will boxes (if they mean anything to you). My advice is to decide what that price is and to have patience. I cannot speak for sure about the horizontal vs vertical motors but the 2353's horn is in the non-powered unit while it is in the 2343's powered unit and the 2353 does not have the grab irons on the nose of each A while the 2343 does. By the way, I do believe that the 2353 has portholes as did the 2343 but the type of porthole is different. My preference would be the 2343 if I was looking for Santa Fe's. I have NYC 2344's instead and paid $322 with shipping for a pair in excellent condition, no boxes.
dmestan wrote: Jumijo wrote: I cleaned/polished my 2343s with white Turtle Wax polishing compound. The kind that says safe for clear coats on the can. Oh mumma, did they come out nice! It worked on both the red and silver paint. Just be careful. That old Lionel paint is easily rubbed through.Jim Jim, will the polishing compound work on my PW silver passenger cars, or will I risk damaging the paint?don
Jumijo wrote: I cleaned/polished my 2343s with white Turtle Wax polishing compound. The kind that says safe for clear coats on the can. Oh mumma, did they come out nice! It worked on both the red and silver paint. Just be careful. That old Lionel paint is easily rubbed through.Jim
I cleaned/polished my 2343s with white Turtle Wax polishing compound. The kind that says safe for clear coats on the can. Oh mumma, did they come out nice! It worked on both the red and silver paint. Just be careful. That old Lionel paint is easily rubbed through.
Jim, will the polishing compound work on my PW silver passenger cars, or will I risk damaging the paint?
don
Don,
I've used the Turtle Wax Clear Coat polishing compound with great results on my 2400 series post war silver painted plastic passenger cars, as well as my 2531 aluminum observation car. Just take the precaution of always trying a new (to you) product or technique on an inconspicuous area, like the inside of a loco shell or car. Polishing my 2400 passenger cars really made them shine. And use a moist tee shirt or soft cloth to apply the polishing compound. The moisture will help keep the polish from burning through the paint. Wipe clean with a dry cloth.Go easy until you get the knack of it.
PostwarMan07 wrote: traindaddy1 wrote:I didn't see any mention in the responses about the engines' "roof mold dimple". Does this feature or the lack thereof have an effect on the value?I remember seeing something on the pricetag about that. Also, the motors were horizontal, not vertical. This means they are from the early production of the 2353s. Not sure if that matters either...
traindaddy1 wrote:I didn't see any mention in the responses about the engines' "roof mold dimple". Does this feature or the lack thereof have an effect on the value?
I remember seeing something on the pricetag about that. Also, the motors were horizontal, not vertical. This means they are from the early production of the 2353s. Not sure if that matters either...
All 2353's have horizontal motors unless someone swapped shells. The 2243 was first to feature a single vertical motor followed by the 2383 with dual vertical motors. The horizontal motors are lower geared and noisier (more moving parts) than the vertical motors but they pull well. 2243's and 83's have black trucks and filled in portholes. They don't look as good as 2353's.
Don't get too engrosed with this particular set. They are all over ebay and you might find a better deal.
Also, the motors were horizontal, not vertical. This means they are from the early production of the 2353s.
All 2353s had horizontal motors; Santa Fe F-3s with two vertical motors were numbered 2383, and had black truck sides, closed portholes, etc., all of which which differentiate them from the earlier horizontal-motor 2333, 2343, and 2353.
PostwarMan07 wrote: Thank you for the help. They want 395 for them. I thought it might be a little on the high side...figured they were valued around 350 but wasnt sure. Ill take another look at them and see how deep the scatches are. My brother is very good at buffing scratches out of cars so I figure he could figure out a toy train.They seemed like good guys and garuntee a great running product. Ill give an update tomorrow after I get back.Im planning on bringing a battery with me for the horn. Do they take regular C or Ds or do you need a special type?
Thank you for the help. They want 395 for them. I thought it might be a little on the high side...figured they were valued around 350 but wasnt sure. Ill take another look at them and see how deep the scatches are. My brother is very good at buffing scratches out of cars so I figure he could figure out a toy train.
They seemed like good guys and garuntee a great running product. Ill give an update tomorrow after I get back.
Im planning on bringing a battery with me for the horn. Do they take regular C or Ds or do you need a special type?
They take D size batteries. Maybe they are nicer than what I am imagining. $250 is what I've I seen VG go for at shows. I paid $450 to a retail store for a set of 2353's in excellent condition, no scratches, with origional boxes a couple years ago. I felt that was a little on the high side. When buffing, be sure to test in a inconspicous spot to test. Some polishes leave a white haze. Your brother probably knows this.
The engines have no broken or missing parts. No cracks or dents. There is a visible scratch on one engine front along with another loss of paint on the side. Other than those two spots there are only a few nicks here and there. Decals are in good shape.
Inside of powered unit looked all together, clean, and well cared for. Havent seen inside the dummy yet.
They run well except a lot of sparking under front truck of powered unit. The rollers are replaced, but they said it is because "the engines are trying to draw as much power as possible". Wasnt sure exactly what that meant but the wheels and trucks also looked clean. Do a lot of F3s spark due to the duel motors drawing so many amps?
Will check the horn and battery compartment tomorrow.
I would say that this is a C-6 rating on ebay...being "very good". Not buying it from ebay, but thats the only scale I have avalible.
It's hard to pin point since perceptions of "VG" vary. I wouldn't pay more than $250 for them.
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