What is K-Line?

[Lehigh Valley Lines]

Sorry this may sound like a dumb question but...

Can someone explain the difference is with K-Line? I see that it has some track that looks like street but then there is also regular trains on Fastrack? I saw a Sante Fe Midnight Cheif that looked pretty cool. Just trying to figure out if there is a difference?

Thanks.

[Wes Whitmore]

K-line is a company that Lionel recently reintroduced after they aquired them.  They offer track, trains, and some accessories.  Most of the stuff is made to run on a conventional transformer, and some as TMCC.  Superstreets is the city street track system that you mentioned.  They have trolleys and cars that run on it.  Most of their trains won't make the sharp curves of superstreets, but some of them will negotiate an 0-27 curve.  There are superstreet track conversion pieces that will make up to lionel track as well.

Wes

[phillyreading]

Lehigh Valley Railroader,

K-Line was a company that Lionel bought up that used to be their competitor and Lionel sued them then bought up the company as it went into bankruptcy because of Lionel's lawsuit. Lionel is using the K-Line name now that they have legal rights to the name, may use the name for a few more years but who knows for sure. Basically Lionel and K-Line were made at the same plant in China before they went into the court battle, almost like the differance between a 1967 Ford Mustang and a 1967 Mercury Cougar, mainly name plates with just about the same exact parts inside.

Wes, to the best of my knowledge Super Streets only will mate up to tubular track like O gauge tubular made by; Lionel, K-Line or Williams. There might be a Super Streets adapter to go to Fastrac but I do not know of one.

Lee F.

[dougdagrump]

The one you refer to as "looking like streets" is just what you called it. It was started by K-Line prior to going belly-up. Essentially it is a 3 rail system that you can use to give your cities and towns street traffic as opposed to just stationary vehicles. If you check out the K-Line by Lionel catalogs you will get a good overview of what is available and some ideas as to how you can animate your layout.

Personally, I think it's a winner just in having some activity in what is normally a static portion of a layout other than lighted signage etc.

[Anonymous]

Lehigh Valley Railroader,

K-Line was a company that Lionel bought up that used to be their competitor and Lionel sued them then bought up the company as it went into bankruptcy because of Lionel's lawsuit. Lionel is using the K-Line name now that they have legal rights to the name, may use the name for a few more years but who knows for sure. Basically Lionel and K-Line were made at the same plant in China before they went into the court battle, almost like the differance between a 1967 Ford Mustang and a 1967 Mercury Cougar, mainly name plates with just about the same exact parts inside.

Wes, to the best of my knowledge Super Streets only will mate up to tubular track like O gauge tubular made by; Lionel, K-Line or Williams. There might be a Super Streets adapter to go to Fastrac but I do not know of one.

Lee F.

Lee,
There is a SuperStreets to FasTrack adapter, as well as grade crossing in the new K-Line by Lionel catalog .

[Joe Hohmann]

Wes, to the best of my knowledge Super Streets only will mate up to tubular track like O gauge tubular made by; Lionel, K-Line or Williams. There might be a Super Streets adapter to go to Fastrac but I do not know of one.

Lee F.

They show one in the '07 catalog, "due Spring '08". Joe

[Lehigh Valley Lines]

Thanks to all who posted now I have a better understanding of K-Line.

The one you refer to as "looking like streets" is just what you called it. It was started by K-Line prior to going belly-up. Essentially it is a 3 rail system that you can use to give your cities and towns street traffic as opposed to just stationary vehicles. If you check out the K-Line by Lionel catalogs you will get a good overview of what is available and some ideas as to how you can animate your layout.

Personally, I think it's a winner just in having some activity in what is normally a static portion of a layout other than lighted signage etc.

I think you are right the "Super Streets" looks like it would be a lot of fun too.

Thanks agian. Always answers on this message board to those who ask.

 

[Kooljock1]

Just to be clear, Lionel did not buy K-Line, nor did K-Line file for bankruptcy because Lionel sued them.

K-Line engineers hacked into Lionel's design computers in Michigan. K-Line then produced locos using Lionel technology.

Lionel sued K-Line for a Cease and Desist. In front of a judge, Lionel and K-Line reached a settlement in which K-Line admitted fault, Lionel allowed K-Line to remain in business AND sell the remaining inventory of engines using the purloined technology.

The next day K-Line issued a press release stating that they had done nothing wrong. At this point the judge slapped a restraining order on K-Line, keeping them from selling any of the engines containing K-Line cruise. Within days K-Line filed for bankruptcy protection.

And here's where it gets sticky: K-Line, Lionel, and Williams all used the same company to manufacture their trains. This company, owned by an American banking firm thought it was in their best interests to keep K-Line alive, and so signed an agreement to have Lionel market K-Line trains.

K-Line has their own president and staff in North Carolina.

Jon

[Anonymous]

Just to be clear, Lionel did not buy K-Line, nor did K-Line file for bankruptcy because Lionel sued them.

K-Line engineers hacked into Lionel's design computers in Michigan. K-Line then produced locos using Lionel technology.

Lionel sued K-Line for a Cease and Desist. In front of a judge, Lionel and K-Line reached a settlement in which K-Line admitted fault, Lionel allowed K-Line to remain in business AND sell the remaining inventory of engines using the purloined technology.

The next day K-Line issued a press release stating that they had done nothing wrong. At this point the judge slapped a restraining order on K-Line, keeping them from selling any of the engines containing K-Line cruise. Within days K-Line filed for bankruptcy protection.

And here's where it gets sticky: K-Line, Lionel, and Williams all used the same company to manufacture their trains. This company, owned by an American banking firm thought it was in their best interests to keep K-Line alive, and so signed an agreement to have Lionel market K-Line trains.

K-Line has their own president and staff in North Carolina.

Jon

 

have a link for this? 

[Jumijo]

Super Streets does connect to FasTrack with a special connector. It's shown in the catalog.

Jim 

[krapug1]

K-Line has their own president and staff in North Carolina.

Jon

Thats news to me, K-Line (as a stand alone company) and MDK for that matter are gone.

The Chappel Hill offices were closed, and there are no listings any longer for either of these companies in North Carolina.

To answer the first question, Super Streets came out late in the life of K-Line, so hopefully more product will be made as the K-Line By Lionel brand continues.

The Midnight Chief, Santa Fe Alco, that you mentioned is from one the early molds that K-Line aquired from Kusan/KMT model trains. The color of the engine was inspired by the 1948 Lionel Catalog that showed the now famous Lionel Santa Fe F-3 in black and red, as opposed to how it was made all those years, in silver and red. K-Line also made their own F-3 in the black and red colors.

When K-Line was first starting out in the mid to late 1980's (pre-dating MTH), it aquired molds and dies that were used for many of the better Marx Trains, as well as Kusan and Inter-Mountain.

A book was published in the late 1990's, The K-Line's Collectors Guide, Volume 1, and it goes into the history of K-Line and has a full production chart. You can usually find it on e-bay, or check with some of the vendors listed under the links section of my K-Line Yahoo Group.

Ken

[lionelsoni]

K Line is also a shipping company whose containers you are likely to see on intermodal trains.  K Line (the toy-train company) at one time made a flatcar (6611) with a K Line (the shipping company) container on it, which I am lucky enough to have acquired.

http://www.kline.com/

 

[alexweiihman]

K-Line has their own president and staff in North Carolina.

Jon

Thats news to me, K-Line (as a stand alone company) and MDK for that matter are gone.

The Chappel Hill offices were closed, and there are no listings any longer for either of these companies in North Carolina.

To answer the first question, Super Streets came out late in the life of K-Line, so hopefully more product will be made as the K-Line By Lionel brand continues.

The Midnight Chief, Santa Fe Alco, that you mentioned is from one the early molds that K-Line aquired from Kusan/KMT model trains. The color of the engine was inspired by the 1948 Lionel Catalog that showed the now famous Lionel Santa Fe F-3 in black and red, as opposed to how it was made all those years, in silver and red. K-Line also made their own F-3 in the black and red colors.

When K-Line was first starting out in the mid to late 1980's (pre-dating MTH), it aquired molds and dies that were used for many of the better Marx Trains, as well as Kusan and Inter-Mountain.

A book was published in the late 1990's, The K-Line's Collectors Guide, Volume 1, and it goes into the history of K-Line and has a full production chart. You can usually find it on e-bay, or check with some of the vendors listed under the links section of my K-Line Yahoo Group.

Ken

 

I didnt know you were the moderater of the K-line yahoo group!

 

Alex (a proud member)

[krapug1]

K Line is also a shipping company whose containers you are likely to see on intermodal trains.  K Line (the toy-train company) at one time made a flatcar (6611) with a K Line (the shipping company) container on it, which I am lucky enough to have acquired.

http://www.kline.com/

 

Right you are, and K-Line (the toy train company), got into Intermodal Model Trains in a big way.
The Collectors Guide, has a Chapter devoted to all things Intermodal.

........and for the record, "K" Line America, the shipping/container company is based in Virginia.

Ken

[brianel027]

Jon (kooljock) has the story pretty well summed up.

For some clarifications:

It's not entirely impossible that K-Line still has some kind of office someplace in North Carolina. Lionel retained some of the former K-Line employees, including the former VP, Nick Ladd. So unless these people moved to Mount Clemens, Mich., it's not out of the question there could be some kind of satelite office. The former MDK K-Line site located on Dodsons Crossroads was a large facility that was leased. Even when MDK K-Line was there, it was an obscure looking facility and you might never have known K-Line was even there. It would make sense that there's no advertised phone number in N.C., since Lionel is managing the product line (for the time being...), so questions and inquiries would of course be directed to Lionel. As even the new website is kline.lionel.com

Lionel is basically marketing the line for the Chinese firm, Sanda Kan, for which K-Line was so in debt to. Sanda Kan is a manufacturing company, with no retail connections in the US. Depending on who you believe, MDK K-Line was in debt to the tune of $6-10 million, so you can well imagine Sanda Kan would have an interest in a responsible firm marketing the line so they can recoup some of those losses. And much Lionel product comes from Sanda Kan.

I wouldn't necessarily call the K-Line Collectors Guide "complete" by any sense of K-Line's products. The book was stalled several times as K-Line had to try to find items they had produced but not taken separate photos of. The delays were also because they kept adding new material to the book. Since the book came out in 1997, it could only be "complete" up to that point. K-Line's most productive years, as far as new tooling and products go (especially scale), came after that point. So there are a good many K-Line products not mentioned in the book anyplace.

Even if you had all the K-Line catalogs from 1997 to the point where they ceased to be, as a private company, MDK K-Line made a good many uncataloged products. A good example of these would be the extensive line of exclusive Conrail products made for employees of Conrail and given out as Safety Award bonuses. And also the KCC products, and others made for the TCA. Plus Boscov's Department store had a long-time good relationship with K-Line and had many products made for them exclusively, in mostly the Reading Railroad. A few of those were later cataloged, albeit with differing numbers.

Also K-Line continued to make starter train sets, although many went uncataloged. The "Fast Freight" series of sets later came with K-Line's SuperSnap track instead of the previous 027 track. Though most of these sets came with cars and loco types that had been previously made, such as the Burlington Northern MP-15 "Fast Freight" set (the BN MP-15 had been cataloged as a separate sale loco in 1996).

Going back to Lehigh Valley's question, YES! If you are a traditionally sized train operator, especially with 027 track, the K-Line S-2's, MP-15's and Alco FA's are a superb value. Although by the catalog illustrations, Lionel has changed the trucks on the former "Train-19" cars, the K-Lionel $24.95 starter cars are also a great value.

Other than the delays on the delivery schedule, I think Lionel is doing a terrific job with the K-Line products. Some are disappointed there aren't more scale products, but remember these are many of the products K-Line couldn't sell without blowout pricing. I'm certain Lionel doesn't want to reissue them until there's sufficient demand.

Also note that the prior K-Line 027 RDC motorized cars are now being made, with many improvements, by Ready Made Toys and is called "The Buddy." Very good deal for the money. RMT is also introducing a modified (and improved) version of K-Line's prior Alco S-2 switcher, now called "The Bang" by RMT.

[traindaddy1]

The only 'dumb' question is the one not asked...Just a note: They also have K-Lineville buildings which are similar to Lionelville.  Some of these have been around for awhile.  Not too long ago, I purchased a few brand new "old" stock at an estate sale.  Two of the factory-sealed packages had defective parts. These were sides of buildings that were not broken but were manufactured either upside down or backwards during production.  I contacted K-Line and they advised me that they were now part of Lionel. I contacted Lionel and they told me that they were not responsible for past K-Line products.   LONG Story: Just be cautious if you are buying any older K-Line products as there might be a service problem.  Welcome aboard.

PS.  The buildings were no problem to me.  Great kit-bashing!    Best of luck.

 

[Kooljock1]

"have a link for this? "

I don't, but I did follow the whole fiasco as it unfolded. You might find stuff archived at O Gauge Watch.

As far as the North Carolina connection, K-Line President Nick Ladd told me this at York in October. He was extremely upbeat and positive about the support coming from Lionel on this whole issue, and told me he couldn't have picked a better person to work with than Jerry Calabrese.

Jon

[krapug1]

"have a link for this? "

I don't, but I did follow the whole fiasco as it unfolded. You might find stuff archived at O Gauge Watch.

As far as the North Carolina connection, K-Line President Nick Ladd told me this at York in October. He was extremely upbeat and positive about the support coming from Lionel on this whole issue, and told me he couldn't have picked a better person to work with than Jerry Calabrese.

Jon

Yes, Nick Ladd is now an executive at Lionel, LLC, working in North Carolina, for the K-Line By Lionel Brand, and Lionel Trains in general.

He very well may be an office of 1, but if they have a staff they are all Lionel LLC employees.

Ken