I got an Penn. Flyer set for Christmas, and I do realize it is a starter set. However, since I got it, I have had problems with the engine and tender. First problem, one week after Christmas, my tender whistle didn't sound right; as if it lost one of it's tones, so I returned it for a new one and now, it is OK other than hearing the whistle motor whine a little bit. Up untill that time, I had been running it on Fast Track with NO switches during Christmas under the tree everything seemed OK, then, after Christmas, I put my PF set onto my 8X8 027 track that is downstairs. It kept quiting while going over the switch track and the X track piece. After a bit of work, I found that the FRONT roller wasn't getting continuity through the copper strip underneath. So... I take it back to my dealer and he gave me a new engine (he said he never seen one do that before). Now, ONE WEEK LATER, my "new" engines headlight starts to flicker ON & OFF. I found that the problem lays in the headlights "ground". I do NOT get any type of ground through the "truck" wheels fore or aft. So, I 'ASSUME' that the ground is to come through the engines motor and wheels?? HOWEVER, when I move the engine wheels left and right, the continuity (using a multimeter) 'flickers' on and off, so that is probably why my light is blinking on and off, the ground that should be continuous, is sporadic at best. The engine runs great! just somehow loses the ground from the motor to the light. Seems junky for something that costs $200.
The reason for this post is Not to bash Lionel, but to see if this is a common problem with starter sets?? OR just my bad luck... I hate to keep going back week after week... and I had planned on taking my layout apart next month. Good thing I am finding these problems now.
So... I need to go BACK to my dealer again. What is the deal here? Are these that bad? I can't believe my problems with it are normal. Here is what they say about it from the catalog:
"....With smoke pouring from the stack and the headlight ablaze..." (not flickering. HAHA)
Here is a pic of my layout.
What have you encountered with the PF set?
Jim
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
I did look at the connection where the wire is soldered to a resistor. The solder is tight. But, when I hold the meter onto the same solder joint as the ground wire is, I still get the same results as I do when I am holding it to the metal frame where the wire is grounded.
POST NOTE: I haven't tried the smoke since I had a problem with the light (I turned the switch off).... but, on the other hand, if the smoke unit gets voltage sporatically like the light, it still "may" generate enough heat to see the smoke come out of the stack. I'll have to see what that is doing as well. I didn't want to remove any screws or anything like that, as I don't want to 'ruin' any warranty on it.
I will take it back tomorrow and see what he says... I will post my results after my visit to the train shop. (Providing the owner is there tomorrow and not an employee)
Wow ive never had any problems with lionel sets. Thats really strange!
"No childhood should be without a train!"
JimM,
My wife bought me the same set 3 years ago. I built a board using the fasttrack for my under the christmass tree layout. Then I built my elevated layout 18' X 12' around my living room (I have 2 cats that must play Godzilla and rampage) using O gauge track I have run into a simular problem with the tender and the loco. I found that the differences in the track types was a big contributer. The dirt and grime deposited differently on the trucks between the 2 track types. I ended up breaking out the dental picks (to remove caked on mung), Q-tips and Isopropyl Alcohol to clean off every truck on my locos and rolling stock and the track. I prefer to use alcohol rather than adbrasives to lessen wear. If you use oil to lubricate your trucks it may have dripped down onto the rolling surface. I personally have a problem with using too much oil and forever cleaning. I hope this may help you.
Pennman
Thanks Pennman, I also had thought at first it may be a buildup of dirt or oil on my 027 track, OR a broken track connection. I started to wipe it down with a contact cleaner, and then, I thought... FIRST try it out on the Fast-Track to see if it does the same thing and unfortuneatly, it did. I also cleaned my wheels on the engine really good too. But... same problem. I am fairly sure that this is just not my day with the PA Flyer set. Oh, by the way, I had cleaned all the 027 track before I assembled it using a scotch pad and some contact cleaner to remove any grease or oils as they are all OLD and tired. But, after cleaning they work great. I have about 2-3 hours of running time on the 027 tracks (after setting them up) so I am not sure how much build up would have gotten on the track.
I WILL try to use a Q-Tip and some alcohol on the wheels of the cars just to see how much dirt/grime has gone onto the them. They should have the same amount of dirt on them as well.
Jim, I have 3 of those steamers and not once have I had the problems like you have here. Now on one I did have some trouble with the front guide wheels sometimes derailing like over a switch. I put a slight bend downward on the metal piece that holds the 2-wheels and added a single self-adhesive lead tire weight to it, and problem gone.
Now on that 2-wheel front truck assembly (assembly is stretching it, given how simple it is) there's a small "L" bend in the metal piece that holds the truck to the front truck bracet (the silver piece that screws into the die-cast body of the steamer). Try giving that piece a little more of a bend so that it keeps better contact. Honesty though, I think a small weight on the top side of the 2-wheel front truck assembly will assure better electrical contact and help prevent the wheels jumping off the track at crossings and switches.
The whistle tender is not Railsounds, and yes, you will hear the sound of the motor as the whistle blows... this is normal as it was for many postwar whistling tenders.
I've also bought a number of the complete motor chassis assemblies for the 4-4-2 locos, which I use to replace or rebuild plastic bodied steamers. Again, once in a while I will find some small trouble with the front guide wheels, but my fix above cures that.
I will say that my very first Flyer 4-4-2 (from around 1991) ran very clunky over switches and UC tracks. I discovered the way the motor chassis was assembled, there wasn't enough play for the roller pickup to move up and down. So I replaced the roller pickup with the so-called cheaper sllide pickup made by Lionel MPC. It is almost the same size, but just shaped so that it is like "half-a-roller." It attaches in the same manner as the normal roller, and ta-da, that problem disappeared.
I've also discovered these slide pickups are just a tad longer than the rollers, so I have used them on short locos that have a tendency to stall. I rebuilt a RMT BEEP with a K-Line DC truck assembly off one of their Alco FA type diesels. The BEEP wasn't stalling, but I could see where it was sometimes losing power for a second. I changed one of the roller type pickups to a slide, and this helped.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
I just got back from the dealer and he gave me another engine. We tested my "bad" one on his track, and he laughed said he never seen a light flicker like that before. Well... let's hope 3rd times a charm.
Thank-you everyone for your input.
Thanks! Why do I get the feeling I will need it??
JimM wrote: Thanks! Why do I get the feeling I will need it?? ;)Jim
Thanks! Why do I get the feeling I will need it?? ;)
Jim,
You've gotten a lot of good advice from knowledgeable folks. Just wanted to add my experience. I've had the Pennsy Flyer for a year with zero problems. Also I've been running a near identical Wabash 4-4-2 and tender for 3 years with also a perfect record. You've had some really tough luck, but I don't think its characteristic of recent Lionel quality.
brianel027 wrote: Jim, I have 3 of those steamers and not once have I had the problems like you have here. Now on one I did have some trouble with the front guide wheels sometimes derailing like over a switch. I put a slight bend downward on the metal piece that holds the 2-wheels and added a single self-adhesive lead tire weight to it, and problem gone.Now on that 2-wheel front truck assembly (assembly is stretching it, given how simple it is) there's a small "L" bend in the metal piece that holds the truck to the front truck bracet (the silver piece that screws into the die-cast body of the steamer). Try giving that piece a little more of a bend so that it keeps better contact. Honesty though, I think a small weight on the top side of the 2-wheel front truck assembly will assure better electrical contact and help prevent the wheels jumping off the track at crossings and switches.The whistle tender is not Railsounds, and yes, you will hear the sound of the motor as the whistle blows... this is normal as it was for many postwar whistling tenders.I've also bought a number of the complete motor chassis assemblies for the 4-4-2 locos, which I use to replace or rebuild plastic bodied steamers. Again, once in a while I will find some small trouble with the front guide wheels, but my fix above cures that.I will say that my very first Flyer 4-4-2 (from around 1991) ran very clunky over switches and UC tracks. I discovered the way the motor chassis was assembled, there wasn't enough play for the roller pickup to move up and down. So I replaced the roller pickup with the so-called cheaper sllide pickup made by Lionel MPC. It is almost the same size, but just shaped so that it is like "half-a-roller." It attaches in the same manner as the normal roller, and ta-da, that problem disappeared.I've also discovered these slide pickups are just a tad longer than the rollers, so I have used them on short locos that have a tendency to stall. I rebuilt a RMT BEEP with a K-Line DC truck assembly off one of their Alco FA type diesels. The BEEP wasn't stalling, but I could see where it was sometimes losing power for a second. I changed one of the roller type pickups to a slide, and this helped.
Does anyone have information or a link that discusses the engine that is in this Lionel starter kit...I see this 4-4-2 engine in LOTS of the starter kits in one form or another.
In your opinion, what is the overall quality of this engine and is it a good basic engine for continuing use in a layout? We are planning on buying a number of them to use in a layout.
How long has Lionel made this engine?
Has anyone made mods to this engine...adding sound, lights, etc.?
Thanks
TMT
TMT, that's exactly what this loco is... an affordable, reliable, basic steam loco. It's not really fair to compare it to other more expensive steam locos, either by Lionel or anyone else. If you want to pay a little more, you can get a more detailed Lionel steamer like the 0-4-0 with tender or one of the many smaller "027" Berkshires or Hudsons.
I think the one steamer you could compare with this basic Lionel 4-4-2 is the basic K-Line Pacific style steamer that came with many K-Line steam starter sets (and is also currently being made by K-Lionel). That loco has it's origins with the MARX tooling, but is a decent looking and running loco. I think the Lionel smoke unit on the 4-4-2 is better, but the K-Line Pacific is a smooth running and good pulling loco.
MTH has certainly made some nice looking and running smaller steam engines under the older Railking banner and now under Rugged Rails. These steamer are not in the same price range as the Lionel 4-4-2, but are very nice for the extra money. Of course, with most MTH locos you get the MTH electronics of some kind, although they have made some whistle only steamers.
I've made modifications to my Lionel 4-4-2's like adding an actual headlight and adding handrails, and a crew to the cab. I have one re-painted in an entirely unprototypical Reading green scheme. I have a plastic bodied one that's in a mock two-tone blue-comet Jersey Central scheme, with added lights, marker lights, handrails, front coupler, etc. I paint smoke boxes, boilers and cast in hand rails in different colors to highlight them.
The small plastic bodied steamers are easy to make body mods to, and I add weight to the motor chassis and wherever there's room on the inner shell. I have one 2-4-0 repainted in another unprototypicial manner: a two-tone grey Lehigh Valley scheme. That's pulls as good as any other the other steamers I have. Most of those cheaper MPC and early LTI small steamers have a good amount of detail cast into the shell, which can be highlighted by detail repainting.
So modifications are certainly possible. Though the air-whistle tender doesn't leave much room for other sound packages. There, you be best off getting a Lionel Railsounds tender made to match the 4-4-2 steamer. I have an air whistle mounted in a Plasticville Railroad Yard Shanty, so I use the MPC ball-bearing "chug chug sound: mechanical tenders, which I made some small mods to, but which make it work much better. I have another with the MPC electronic sound of steam which I like too. And I have the budget priced MRC Sound Station #312, which gives you a variety of sound effects for $50... can't beat that. So I'm plenty content and happy with what I have.
This is all really good info and these posts also uplift my hopes in getting a decent set. I didn't really think that these engines could be that bad... just my bad luck. Both of the bad engines were good running/pulling engines, but what my "main" thought is; that BOTH engines were over lubricated. "Possibly" that is why they were losing continuity sporatically? I am not positive because I didn't take either one apart. But, those are my "gut" feelings.
Jim, usually over-lubrication from the factory is not the problem. Usually when you get a new loco, you want to check it and I find I usually have to add a little lubricant, especially considering the gears are plastic - this is a good idea.
The low-cost locos are pretty simple for Sanda Kan to make (the Chinese company that makes nearly all the trains for most companies). But you also have consider the long shipping journey. There's no substitute for learning about the trains, how they work and how to make minor repairs.
I haven't had any "serious" problems with anything... but one in awhile I find a wire has come un-soldered upon getting it. Another potential problem on diesels, is that the wires are often wrapped or bundled with a twist tie, or plastic clip. If there isn't enough play in the wires, it's quite possible to either fray, cut or break one of the wires where they run through the stamped hole in the sheet metal frame. After this happened to me once (and it took me a bit to figure out what had happened) I now check the wires upon getting a loco and remove or loosen up the twist tie or clip, so the wires are not so taunt.
You can't always judge problems with the old addage "you get what you pay for" as many who pay very good money for high-end locomotives have a variety of frustrating problems. And because many of these problems can related to the complicated electronics, they have to be sent back to the company for either repairs or replacement.
There's a few guys here who can work on these more complicated locos - and I say good for them. Again, there's no substitute for being able to make your own repairs.
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