I hope you guys don't laugh too hard at me.
I am a long-time N Scaler. I take apart N Scale steam, kitbash it, scratchbuild it, with a fervor. But with Lionel stuff, I'm a total dolt.
I've got a 1950s era 2026 engine (the 2-6-4, not the late 40s 2-6-2). It runs quite well. The reverser works, the whistle tender works. I have some basic repair questions, and I'm hoping you guys can help me. I've been through the FAQs, but they don't show me what I need to know.
1. How do I take the body off? (told you I was a dolt!) I see a screw in the top, and some screws underneath in the front. But they don't release the body. There is a friction pin across the rear end that locks into either side of the body. Do I have to drive that out to take the body off?
2. The smoker used to work, but doesn't anymore. I've read up on the common woes of these, and I think I can fix it if I can get the body off and get to it - don't use sharp objects, be careful of the nichrome wire, get the residue build-up outta there, clear the piston air hole. Anything else to be careful of? I will measure the wire with an ohmmeter and make sure it's not just burned out. I'm not interested in converting it. If the nichrome wire is shot, can anybody tell me what gauge/type it is so I can rewind the coil myself?
3. One final thing that's always puzzled me - When you activate the whistle control on the transformer, what exactly does that do? Does it send some DC into the rails that activates the relay in the tender? If so, is there a capacitor in the loco to block the DC from the motor? The relay works, the whistle motor spins, the whistle is fine. I'd just like to know what's going on here.
Thank you for your patience!
--- Max
1. Yes, you have to drive out the pin. It is splined on one end only; so you don't have to move it very far to get it loose.
3. Yes, the transformer puts DC on the track. It switches in an additional 5-volt winding and puts the whole transformer output in series with a copper-oxide rectifier diode. Then, as the control moves farther, it shunts the rectifier with a resistor. The first stage is to provide a strong DC component to get the relay to pick up; then in the second stage it puts out just enough DC to keep the relay operated.
The relay has copper rings at one end of the coil. These act like a shorted secondary winding on a transformer and shield the relay armature from the alternating flux due to the AC component of the track voltage. But they have no effect on the DC component. That's what makes the relay selectively sensitive to DC.
When the transformer is connected in the usual way, the whistle control makes the center rail positive relative to the outside rails. The relay doesn't care; but modern electronic locomotives distinguish between polarities and blow the whistle (horn) for positive and ring the bell for negative.
There are several odd things about that locomotive:
--There has never been an American prototype 2-6-4. Lionel always called it a "prairie"; but that's a 2-6-2. Supposedly some 2-6-4s were built in America for export, leading to the name you sometimes see used--"Adriatic".
--The (blind) middle drivers are larger than the others. See whether you can tip your locomotive slightly fore and aft on the track.
--The front truck oversteers. If everything is working perfectly, this may not cause any trouble. But complicated trackwork with frogs in the wrong places can cause derailments, characteristically to the inside of a curve.
Bob Nelson
Thank you for an excellent reply. I see how the whistle circuit works. So, that relay coil "chokes" out AC inside the tender, so the relay works only on the DC. And they had a solid-state rectifier inside the transformer, even back then, eh? Pretty impressive. Copper oxide, never heard of that type.
So, this will let me get the body off. I'll see what's what on the smoke coil.
Thanks again!
I have successfully taken apart the Prairie style (2026, 2018, 2037, etc) without taking the pin off but in some cases the pin must be removed as Bob says.
Once the screws are removed if you gently push the motor assembly forward, sometimes the motor will come out of the slots that the pin pass through. Then, you just lift up and pull out the motor.
Now if you're not careful doing this and force the motor to hard forward you can mess up the e-unit lever, loosening and bending it.
the way I usually approach these engines is I first look at the pin to see how tight it's seated in the shell. If it's pretty snug I'll try the above approach first.
Mike S.
You'll probably get a few opinions on this but here's mine:
You can get smoke pellets from Jeff at Train Tender or other parts places. They're being made by a Dallas train dealer again,but even with those you'll probably get anemic smoke. Your element is probaby feeling a bit fatigued. so....
You could leave it alone and add a couple of drops of JT's smoke fluid and get some really nice smoke, or..
You could take a turn of Nichrome wire off the original element and get more smoke, or..
You could purchase a new smoke element either new old stock (harder to find) or a repro one. Most repro ones don't smoke a ton so doing the above mod usually helps too. Or....
you could convert to a liquid unit. Parts available from part dealers. I did this but wasn't happy with the longevity of the liquid elements so I went back to pill heaters.
I use a mixture of both pellets and JT's. If I'm not getting enough smoke for my taste, I take a turn of nichrome wire off the element to get more. Oh, K-line pellets do work, I still have some
Hope this helps,
Open up the smoke unit and clean all the old gunk out of the bowl. Relace it with pink insulation. Enough so that it will touch the heating element. Make sure it doesn't block the air hole. Now put a few drops of smoke fluid in and it should smoke better. I just did this last weekend to a 2056 that had stopped smoking. It smokes great now.
One more thing - the prairie type locomotives don't seem to require a lot of voltage, even when pulling a long train. At least mine don't (especially after a tune up). That also effects the smoke output.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Open up the smoke unit and clean all the old brown looking gunk out of the bowl. Relace it with pink insulation [yes the house type]. Enough so that it will touch the heating element. Make sure it doesn't block the air hole. Now put several drops of smoke fluid in, wetting the insulation real well and it will smoke better. We do that to all of our engines. I have even put in the new type elements and they really make it smoke.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
magliaro wrote:But... the smoke is kinda, well, pathetic. There just isn't all that much visible smoke puffingoutta there, especially while it's running...
Try installing a 2026-44 spring above the piston(inside the cylinder) for improved smoke output.
Rob
Thanks for the info on the spring. Mine already has a spring in the piston and the piston action is quite good.
As for opening up the bowl, HOW DO I DO THIS? When I had it apart, it looked like a one-piece metal bowl with the heating coil inside, with a wire going in through one side to the coil. I figured there MUST be a way to get that bowl apart, but I just don't see it. Is the top held on with crimps or something?
Thanks.
Use a small screwdriver and carefully insert it in the opening of the bowl without touching the element. Then pry the cover off gently. If it doesn't give then use a x-acto knife to loosen the old heater cement around the outside edge by scribing the point around the circumference of the bowl where the silver lid meets the the bottom section of the bowl. It should then come off if it was being stubborn.
The pill-type smoke generators cannot compete with the modern liquid types for volume of smoke. On the other hand, they cannot burn out the wicks that they do not have!
Apart from modifying or replacing the stock smoke generator, there is a way to get more voltage to it. You just reduce the voltage that gets to the locomotive's motor. Then, for the same train speed, there is higher voltage on the track and therefore to the smoke generator.
This is pretty easy to do (and undo, if you want), using readily-available bridge-rectifier modules, not as rectifiers, but as voltage-dropping elements wired in series with the motor. Just connect the + and - terminals of the rectifier together and use the other two, ~, terminals to wire in series with the motor. Each module will give you about a volt of boost. You can use more than one for more voltage boost. Radio Shack has suitable rectifiers for $2: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062580&cp=2032058.2032230.2032269&parentPage=family
baberuth73: I got a message from you, but I don't see it in the forum and I cannot figure out how to send a private message to an arbitrary member in this forum.
You asked about pulling the armature - you are correct. I misspoke. I didn't completely remove the armature. I remove the brush holder cover, which is held on by 2 screws. Once that was out, the entire flat armature surface is exposed, so I could clean it and clean the carbon out of the slots. I did not have to take it completely out. Yes, it looks to me like you'd have to remove the drivers to get it out.
Wiped the armature surface clean with a paper towel with a little alcohol on it. I cleaned out the slots by running a toothpick and a small jewelers screwdriver through them. It's not really much different than what I do to clean up my small N Scale motors - just BIGGER!
Other questions: No, mine doesn't "rock" over the center driver, and the pilot and trailing trucks seem to track just fine. But of course, I'm just running this around a simple loop, not through any turnouts or grades where you are likely to see gauge and derailment issues.
Now, off to pry open that smoke chamber!
Okay. I got the smoke chamber apart. Wow, was it loaded with junk!
I cleaned it all out. And I noticed one other thing. Tell me if this is correct. The smoke chamber is mounted above the air piston by a rivet. There is about 1/8" space between the bottom of the smoke chamber and the top of the air puffing cylinder. The little hole in the top of the cylinder lines up with a little hole in the bottom of the smoke chamber.
It seems to me that they couldn't have just expected the little puffs of air to come out of the piston, through open air, and go into the little hole in the bottom of the smoke chamber. Wasn't there a little tube or pipe in there originally? It sure seems like there should have been.
So, I cut a short length of 1/8" copper tube (about 1/8" long) and wedged it in there, so the air puffs will come out of the piston, through the tube, and into the smoke chamber.
I reassembled it, and it works! Woo hoo! The smoke ain't great, but it's pretty good, about what I remember it doing years ago the last time I saw it work.
Thank you to everybody for helping me along on this. As you probably surmised, this is one of those Christmastime sets that doesn't see much use, but I love it all the same and am glad to have it fixed up again.
magliaro wrote:...It seems to me that they couldn't have just expected the little puffs of air to come out of the piston, through open air, and go into the little hole in the bottom of the smoke chamber. Wasn't there a little tube or pipe in there originally? It sure seems like there should have been.So, I cut a short length of 1/8" copper tube (about 1/8" long) and wedged it in there, so the air puffs will come out of the piston, through the tube, and into the smoke chamber.I reassembled it, and it works! Woo hoo! The smoke ain't great, but it's pretty good...
I reassembled it, and it works! Woo hoo! The smoke ain't great, but it's pretty good...
The absence of a tube, where you installed one, is a crucial aspect of the puffing action. It acts like a valve - pushing air up through the chamber hole, and then drawing fresh air from around the base of the chamber(instead of pulling it back out), and you have effectively defeated the feature. Remove the tube and it will smoke better.
Add some pink insulation to the bowl you cleaned out. Enough to make contact with the heating element. Remove the copper tube. Add fluid. It should smoke better after you've done that.
Okay. Thanks for instructing me. I'll get rid of the tube.
Hang on, guys. I've seen your advice about the pink insulation. I just haven't gotten there yet. I wanted to get it basically working first before I started trying to tweak it to make more smoke.
<>
<>I assume that once I've put pink insulation in there, I should never ever use the melting pellets again? It seems like they'd gunk it up pretty bad.
Okay, removing the tube definitely improved it. Smokes much better.
I tried putting some house insulation in there, and saturating well with smoke oil. That didn't work. I ran it for a few minutes and it made no smoke at all. When I disassembled it, I could still feel that the bowl was hot, so the coil was definitely working. The insulation was packed around the coil. The hole was not blocked.
Who knows? Maybe I used too much or too little. But I don't think I'm going to mess with it anymore. I removed the insulation, and without the tube in there, it smokes quite well, even using the oil instead of the pellets.
Thanks, everyone.
magliaro wrote:Who knows? Maybe I used too much or too little. But I don't think I'm going to mess with it anymore. I removed the insulation, and without the tube in there, it smokes quite well, even using the oil instead of the pellets.Thanks, everyone.
As long as it's smoking, that's all that counts. Good luck with your 2026!
I'm in the process of a fix-it-up on a 2037 that has a short. The wiring looked pretty good, so upon some investigation I found that there were two small metal clips moving about in the space between the motor field and collector plate. I was able to remove one with a pair of needlenose pliars for closer inspect (see pic below). From looking at diagrams I cannot identify what this could be - does anyone know?
Assuming it needs to go back somewhere close to where I found it, it looks like I'll need to pull the collector off. It's attached by two rivets (see pic below). Is there a clever way to get this off without filing off the rivets? And, once removed, is it going to be simple to reinstall another pair of rivets in their place?
IT consultant by day, 3rd generation Lionel guy (raising a 3YO 4th generation Lionel Lil' Man) by night in the suburbs of the greatest city in the world - Chicago. Home of the ever-changing Illinois Concretus Ry.
Buzz bar for super O track. one of mine must of gotten loose and mixed with it . told you it had a rough trip. lol
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
DON'T put it back anywhere. It's part of the track, not the engine... it's a 31-7 Super O Power Blade Connector - see more HERE.
rtraincollector Buzz bar for super O track. one of mine must of gotten loose and mixed with it . told you it had a rough trip. lol
And many thanks to RTC for the generous offer that made this project possible
By the way, I think you would have found that removing those rivets would not have gotten the pickup assembly out. It is held in place by tabs on the side of the board that fit into slots in the motor frame. It is very difficult to remove and reinsert. The rivets hold the flat spring that pushes the rollers down against the middle rail.
I have a lionel Prairie type 2037 that I am disassembling. I have got out the screws and the bar, but something is keeping the smoke unit from coming out. Therefore I cannot get out the motor. Anybody know what it is and how I can get out the motor?
Smoke unit is screwed in
How do you get the smoke unit un-screwed so you can get out the motor?
In terms of getting out the motor, you would have to pull off the wheels, and then pull apart he frame. From what I have heard, those units bend rather easily. The screws for the smoke unit would be just behind it, on either side.
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