Pullmor Motor

[Berk765]

Whats so great about Lionel's pullmor motor. From what Ive seen, they dont run that smooth. Is it just because of their powerful pulling ability that Ive read about? Were they used in anything other than in an electric train? Is there any way to make them run smoother?

[trigtrax]

The Pullmor name should give it away. Lionel invested considerable advertising into that motor.

Your statement that the motor doesn't run smooth reflects today's method of running trains at very low speed. A Pulmor used 3 poles on its armature, todays DC Can motors usually have more. This gives more torque at lower speed.

Remember the Pullmor was around when trains were toys for kids. Kids don't run them at a prototypical crawl, they want action.

Were they used in anything other than in an electric train?

The same type motor is typically used in power drills, Skill saws and similar devices.Anything that operates on AC and has brushes. 

 

[chuck]

The open frame motors could also run on AC or DC current which was a big advantage in the early days of electric trains where there was no standard for electricity.  The open frame motor also has the advantage of the magnetic field being generated by the electromagentic field coil and it varies with the power applied.  Can motors have a fixed magnetic field.

[sir james I]

I like the old motors, They can still be repaired and 50 years from now still be repaired. New DC motors are nice, and very smooth, quiet, and can run slow. But they are also throw  away when they stop working.

[chuck]

The Lionel TPC's can get older open frame motors to run at slower speeds, not as slow or smooth as a back emf fly wheel equiped can motor, but without most of the headaches associated with the extra electronics and with no modifications to the loco itself.  The original horizontal motored F-3's could also run pretty slow but they had different gear ratios from the later vertical mounted units.  BTW, not all can motors are cheap/poorly made.

[Berk765]

Its a good thing Lionel had magnatraction back then, so you can run it fast.

[Berk765]

What do you have to do keep them maintained? Which parts could wear out?

[ADCX Rob]

trigtrax

The Pullmor name should give it away. Lionel invested considerable advertising into that motor.

I'm not sure it was an advertising investment, though.  Lionel LLC inherited "PullMor" from LTI, LTI from K-P Toy, K-P from General Mills. 

General Mills applied the term to all locos of their 1970 line, their first, in which all traction aids were of the rubber tire traction variety(MagneTraction would not return until 1976).  All motors were also of the open frame universal type, indigenous to Lionel trains. 

When Lionel produced DC only & can-motored locos, the more expensive open frame motors took on the "PullMor" moniker.  I don't know exactly when this first happened, or even if Lionel started the practice.  I have all of the catalogs, but would have to study them to find a first reference to them making a difference between PullMor vs. can motors.

So how did General Mills come up with "PullMor"?  Well, Lionel acquired what was left of American Flyer in 1967.  "Pull-Mor" was Flyer's trade name for their rubber tire traction equipped engines. 

So your "classic-motored" Lionels now have a decidedly American Flyer descriptor attached to them...!

Rob 

[chuck]

What do you have to do keep them maintained? Which parts could wear out?

Brushes occasionally need replacing.  Drop of oil on main bearing.  Check gear train for grease. Rarely the commutator needs to be cleaned with a toothpick.  It's outlined in the owners manual for a PullMor equipped loco.

[EJN]

FYI, Lionel advertises that the current run of Post War Celebration Loco, at least in the Virginian and Space Freight, have pullmor motors. Go figure. Would have thought since they took liscense to change other points, that a more modern motor, ie can motor, would have been used. 

[EIS2]

Whats so great about Lionel's pullmor motor.

Simplicity.  I have never had one go bad.  Cleaning and a little oil is all they ever need.

Earl

[JamesShannon]

this is a great thread!  Thanks guys.

[Anonymous]

FYI, Lionel advertises that the current run of Post War Celebration Loco, at least in the Virginian and Space Freight, have pullmor motors. Go figure. Would have thought since they took liscense to change other points, that a more modern motor, ie can motor, would have been used. 

   One of the few reasons I would purchase a Lionel train is that it has pullmore motors. I love that ozone smell, makes me sentimental. I love my Williams, but the only thing I would like better is an open frame motor.

[Lenny the Lion]

Give me the groan of the early style postwar motor and that wonderful smell of ozone, heavenly! Brings back memories.

[laz 57]

Whats so great about Lionel's pullmor motor.

Simplicity.  I have never had one go bad.  Cleaning and a little oil is all they ever need.

Earl

Same here EARL, No Problems with mine.

laz57

[3railguy]

PULLMORE MOTORS RULE! They are like GM cast iron small block V8's. They beg to be abused and you can't kill them. Pullmore is the name MPC adopted for the old field wound design. Pullmore was origionally American Flyer's name for rubber traction tires (Lionel bought Flyer sometime in the 60's). Lionel origionally called their field wound motor the atomic motor in the early postwar days.

Chuck is right. A TPC unit not only puts out lower voltage for slow speed, the TPC unit manipulates the AC sine wave for smoother running of the bullet proof pullmore.

Frank is right about pullmore aroma. Not only do they produce ozone, they heat the grease creating a heavenly aroma of ozone and hot grease. It's no wonder today's kids aren't attracted to trains like they were 50 years ago.

The rough running characteristics have more to do with gear box design which varied with different engines. Early 027 Alcos, early NW switchers (before the cheapy stamped frame design), 726 Berkshires, and 2332 GG1's for example run smooth as silk.

The guys are right about cleaning. What do you do with a 50 year old pullmore that is filled with baked on airborne crud and lint? You simply pull the brushplate, armature, and bearings, give it all a good scrubbing with mineral spirits and tooth brush, re-lube, install new brushes, and she's good as new.

[magicman710]

I havent read any of the other posts. However, my #2368 B&O PWC F3 has 2 pullmor moters and have no problem with them. I'll even post a video if you would like. They, to me, run great at slow as well as fast speeds. I guess you might be referring to the older ones, but the new ones run just fine, maybe better than cans.

[Smoke Stack Lightnin']

The armature would be the Archimedes heel of the pullmore, which friction would wear (grooves) at the armature bushings entering/exiting the casing.  This would take hours of running in long durations, as what the Mall of America layout operators found, which is why they turned to can motors that can withstand duration.  I have a video where they actually show the torn down and damaged pullmore armatures.  This obviously doesn't effect the average user, but someone asked about it's weak areas.  I like pullmores because they can be self-serviced, which I would not attempt with a sealed can motor, and for all the aforementioned reasons

Stack

[thor]

Yeah what they said. Those old AC open frame motors are the best, they don't run too well at a crawl but then they were never meant to but if you take the time to actually drive the loco yourself it CAN be done and that's half the fun, the challenge of it IMHO. I wish all my locos had them only with a worm gear reduction, not the spur gears. You cannot beat that wonderful smell and the growl, oooh, that's the best!

[Berk765]

Yeah, I have a Wabash Hudson steamer that was made in the 1990's. It has a Pullmor motor with magna-traction. I like it because it has that classic style motor, and the fact it was made in America!!! It has the Railsounds 2 sound system with a great sounding whistle. This engine is built like an old postwar engine with modern sounds. I love it and its one of my favorites.

[sir james I]

765-take care of that Wabash, buyers like that engine, it's a favorite.

[RockIsland52]

I'm a newbie to this discussion forum and no expert at train repairs.  However, I keep reading excellent discussions about cleaning, lubricating, and working on your trains, especially removing the accumulation of 5 decades of dirt and lubricant crud, dog hair, tinsel, etc.

At the risk of stating the obvious to the veterans out there, some tools I find particularly useful, most of which come from the medical and dental professions:

1.)  Plastic disposable syringes, especially pediatric: toothpicks or commercial lubricants (like Lionel) with narrow tips and extensions can't get into the tightest spots and deliver with precision (less is more).  One of my friends is diabetic, and I got some of these from him.  Less oil subsequently spraying onto the tracks too.  Saves a lot of time since there is no excess oil in hard to reach places that require post lubricating wiping.

2.)  Surgical grade ratchet locking hemostats:  these hold those tiniest of screws to access the tight places and enable you to position the screws correctly, holding them until you can get them started.  Especially good after drinking too much (booze or coffee where your hands are less than perfectly steady and you find yourself dropping the screw into an inaccesible place a half dozen times).  Good for precisely holding wire when tinning and soldering.  Can be purchased at medical and surgical outlets and can be reasonably priced if the packaging has been compromised.  Stainless floor grade finishes are cheaper than matt finishes.  Can be purchased with angled tips.  Better yet, your doctor or dentist may have some laying around she/he doesn't want any more.

3.)  Surgical tweezers:  much narrower stems than any you get at the pharmacy to get into tightest places, and they come to an extremely fine point (true needle nose).  Sharp enough for the most intricate of tasks.  Great tinsel, dog/cat hair, and general crud removing tool.  Can be gotten from the same sources as 2 above.

4.)  Compressed air:  if you don't want to go the aerosol can route with the tube extensions (like the red WD40 extenders), your hobby shop may have an electric substitute as mine did.  This blasts out the loosened crud without disassembly, especially in tight places between gears and truck housings, or axles and truck housings.

5.)  Medical illumination and magnification headgear:  Plastic.  Battery operated.  You've probably seen your doctor or dentist wearing some at one point in time or another.  Never have inadequate or poorly placed lighting again for those intricate repairs or maintenance.  Plus they magnify the field of vision.  Particularly good for us older guys.  Source, same as 2 above.

6.)  Aneurysm clips: same as 1, 2, and 3 above.  Spring loaded for holding stuff together during repairs.  Harder to get from your Doc unless he/she is a vascular or neuro surgeon.

The proper tools can make the most frustrating repair and maintenance work so much faster and easier.  Warning: don't loan this stuff out to your train buddies.  You'll never get them back.

Jack            

[Kmaster2007]

I have the lionel Cannonball set with the ATSF 8300, it is a nice puller but it is loud. The engine is not a perfect performer, but the set was bought for 30 bucks in the early 70's (this is the set i could buy for that inflated https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/lionel-trains/Lionel+Train+Sets/lionel-1923130-the-polar-express-trolley-set/ ) So it was a cheap set. the whole set box weighs...3 to 5 pounds (just an estimate)