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Refurbished ZW’s

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Refurbished ZW’s
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:23 AM

I am slowly building up the components to put together a new layout this Fall.  I have seen refurbished ZW's on E-Bay for around $250.  Any tips or thoughts on buying these??  Any particular people you do or do not recommend dealing with?

Are the ZW's easy to operate and can they cover accessories as well?  All I have right now are the very basic transformers that came with our starter sets.

Thanks !

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:27 AM

You're talking about postwar ZWs, right?

Bob Nelson

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Posted by csxt30 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:32 AM

A good & old rule of thumb used to be a dollar a watt. I got mine from E-bay this time & a good one & they back them up. I got mine from Trainz, about 3 yrs. ago for just under 200 !! They are very easy to operate & you will like it if you get a good one. You may want to or rather you really should, add the fuse protection to it after you get it.

Thanks, John  

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Posted by phillyreading on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:38 AM

The Post War ZW's will work great if you add circuit breakers from Scotts Odd and Ends about $40.00 for a group of four circuit breakers, www.scottsoddsnends.com, for modern day locomotives that need faster electrical protection. I have read about the new ZW's that use seperate power supplies on some of the Forum posts and they claim that the new ones fall apart much easier than the Post War ones do, anything from handles coming off while running to cross-over voltage output to another control handle.  This may have something to do with the new ZW's being made oversees.

The ZW can power accessories, use handles B & C as A & D have whistle controls, but I recommend using a multimeter to read the voltage output so that you don't damage some of the newer accessories.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by chuck on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:56 AM

PW ZW is very good for running PW trains.  If you run mostly modern stuff you should be aware of the following issues.  The  unit doesn't have fast acting breakers that are needed for working with modern trains.  You may also need to add sound activation buttons to trigger bell as well as whistles.  These are solid state devices that produce nice clean dc spikes to trigger modern sound units.  You can add theses by getting the parts from places like Scott's Odds and Endshttp://www.scottsodds-n-ends.com/.

A PW ZW has a max sustained output of 180 watts (275 watt rating is what the unit consumes).  A ZW that has been treated well will last almost indefinitely and it is fairly easy to take care of or repair.  There are only a few ways to "break" a ZW and these involve damage to the primary core windings and the frame that holds this together.  Most reconditioning involves replacing the power cord, replacing the rectifier disk (modern diode or replacement), and replacement of the main breaker.

When everything else fails, play dead
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Posted by PostwarMan07 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:56 AM

I love the postwar ZWs.  Have it serviced when you get it (rollers, diodes, cord, and new circuit breakers) and youll be pleased with the product.  These things are 50 years old and still run great!  That tells you about the quality of product from the postwar years.

I also follow the $1 per watt rule but remember that the ZW only gives 180 watts to the terminals total.  The 275 is what the transformer takes from your wall outlet.  the extra 95 watts are used in reducing the voltage from 120 to 20 volts. You can easily find a ZW on ebay for under 200. 

I can't comment on the new ZWs because I never owned one but have been hearing a lot of people not pleased with the product.

Good luck and Enjoy!

John W
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Posted by phillyreading on Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:03 AM

There is one main fault with the Post War ZW's circuit breaker and that is it is on the negative or return side of the power supply. That is why I mention about adding the circuit breakers to the A B C & D posts from Scotts Odds & Ends.

You can find the older ZW's at most train shows and save the shipping costs from ebay or other auction places online, remember that a ZW weighs a good amount so shipping will be high!!

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:34 AM

The ZW I am lookig at is PW and would be used to run Williams engines if that helps clear up anything.  Besides the trains I only have basic accessories. - Lights, rotary beacon, etc.. would like to add a few PW items I have scene.  (log loader, barrel loader, etc. type things)

The switches are K-line  (o-27) that I picked up on e-bay. 

Can you rebuild a ZW yourself or are special tools required?  

 

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Posted by Brutus on Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:32 PM
Keep us posted - I'm thinking of getting a PW one in a few months too!

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Posted by kpolak on Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:51 PM
 Hedda wrote:

Can you rebuild a ZW yourself or are special tools required?

I have an older PW ZW, that I keep working on bit by bit...It's pretty fussy stuff, but if you're good with your hands, and know a little about electrical, you can do it.  Most of what I worked on was cleaning old contacts with contact cleaner.  I also replaced the rectifyer disks to get the whistles to work, and changed the carbon rollers.  Needle nosed plyers, and screwdrivers are all you need, in addition to patience.  Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains 19458-1969 is also quite helpful.  This explains a variety of PW repairs, including part numbers for all sorts of Lionel PW items.

Kurt

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Posted by chuck on Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:52 PM

Can you rebuild a ZW yourself or are special tools required?

No special tools are required.  The offical Lionel service bulletins are available re servicing this unit (Greenberg publication or from on-line Olsen Toy Train Library) and there are some excellent procedures/tips in Dr. Tinker's Repair Vol 2 http://www.drtinkertrains.com/publications.htm and in some of the Barret in the Back Shop DVD's there are repair procedures for various PW ZW issues.

When everything else fails, play dead
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Posted by PhilaKnight on Sunday, August 19, 2007 3:52 PM

I always wanted a ZW. When I first got into Lionels I was about 14 so my parents would buy me a engine when I would pass a grade or chirstmas. But I had about 2 or 3 transformers so Pop said no to the expensive ZW cause he said "You already have a transformer" If I wanted something I had already (Pop didn't understand not all steam engines are the same and there is more than one diesel engine I couldn't even attempt to explain a electric engine to him) so I had to save up and buy it myself. Well it took me 16 years and last year I finnally got my ZW. Funny thing is that my Pop got it for me. He goes to thin auction and sometimes the have trains well he remember that I always tried to talk him into buying one. One came thru this auction and he got it for me. It's a 275 watt and it works good.

When I got it home I plugged it in and the red light came on and stayed on. I thought O" great I paid for a busted ZW. But someone switched the lights around. I think someone tried to make it look like it was busted to get it cheaper but can't say for sure.

Anyway I wouldn't be that quick to get one on E-Bay cause there a 2 kinds the 275 and a 250 watt and there is a price difference of 50 bucks or so.( Greenberg's Pocket Guide) A dishonest person might switch plates.

Buy one where you can test it or from some one who will back it up.

 

 

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:09 PM
You can pay that much.  I pay from $100 to $175 for them.  Go to ChoochooAuctions.com and click on Lionel and then post war.  Three on there.  One is damaged though.

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Posted by bfskinner on Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:12 PM

PhilaKnight,

Overall, good advice.

However, I'm a tad confused. Have you figured out how someone could have "switched the lights around....to make it look like it was busted to get it cheaper...?  It appears that someone was able to create the phony damage before he actually owned it. I'd like to try that myself. Wink [;)]

bf
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Posted by PhilaKnight on Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:19 PM
When I plugged it in , the red light stayed on all the time. When I did some research online I was looking at my transformer and the pictures online. I noticed that my red light (the colored lens) was on the opposite side. I got my test light and it was putting out power. Some how the lenes got switched, the unscrew from the top. I switched them back but to be sure I had it checked by a local service dealer. Cost me 5 bucks but hey it was worth knowing it was fine. I figure that if the auctioner plugg it in before he put it up for bid the red light would come on and would be buyers would not bid as high if they thought it was broke and the switcher would know it wasn't broke and maybe pay less.
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Posted by bfskinner on Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:36 PM
OK, that makes sense. I guess.
bf
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Posted by ben10ben on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:47 PM

"There is one main fault with the Post War ZW's circuit breaker and that is it is on the negative or return side of the power supply"

 

That's a matter of opinion. Placing the circuit breaker on the return side allows the transformer to deliver its full capacity through one terminal, or split it into any portion across the four terminals.


Having a separate breaker for each terminal means that you have to limit the current delivered through each terminal to a fraction of the total available. 

I'll often run two separate trains off of the same transformer, one of which has a lot of lights and draws a lot of current, and one of which draws only a little bit of current. If I limited the current through each terminal to, say, 2.5 amps(1/4 of the ZW's theoretical output-180 watts and 18 volts), the big train would probably trip the breaker, while the total current draw was in actuality nowhere near the total capacity of the transformer. 

 

When using a ZW, I prefer to keep a fast-acting 10 amp breaker or fuse on the common side, the same way the internal breaker is set up.  

Ben TCA 09-63474
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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, August 20, 2007 8:53 PM

And, if you don't put individual circuit breakers on the four outputs, you can draw far more than the 15-ampere rating of the stock circuit breaker by connecting outputs together!  I can get a solid 30 amperes from my type Zs, which are very similar electrically.

Seriously, if you want to be able to draw the full 15 amperes from any one output, the safe way to do it is to add four 15-ampere circuit breakers, one to each of the outputs, and leave the original circuit breaker in place (or replace it with another if it is bad).

The return, by the way, is not particularly negative, except a little bit when you lean on the whistle control.

Bob Nelson

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