Ballast question

[Gillty]

I'm at the point now with my layout that I'd like to start putting down ballast but I've been hesitating because of how permanent it seemingly makes the layout.  I know I'll see something cool to add once I glue everything down.

Do all of you glue the ballast down?  Is there a downside if it's not glued down? (to the engines maybe?)   If you do glue it down how do you add accessories that require an insulated track or a remote control track?

Also, could someone tell me the formula for the white glue mixture for the ballast if end up going that route.  

Thanks in advance,

Rich

 

 

 

 

 

[chuck]

If you use real stone ballast it would be extremely unwise not to glue it down.  Even a single piece of stone picked up by the gear train can do a great deal of damage.  Their are foam based products that can be used and painted with products like "FlecStone" to simulate rock.  Glue formula is white glue (Elmers) watered down 50/50 with a couple of drops of detergent to act as a wetting agent.

[Anonymous]

I know there are some folks who prefer to leave the ballast loose, but it's not something I would do or recommend doing.

Glued ballast simply looks better; holds the track securely in place; and eliminates the possibility of ballast getting into locomotive mechansms or switch points. 

With loose ballast, you're pretty much on your own, and the normal vibrations of trains and such will eventually cause the ballast to move out of place.

If necessary, you can remove glued-down ballats by using hot water to loosen the glue; then gently pry the trackwork loose from the ballast.

[alan's salty dog]

This is my first post so, you can take it with a grain of salt but, I used a very light spray of Woodland Scenics "Scenic Cement". It basically kept the top layer of ballast together but I could make changes when needed without too much fuss. Also, I when I moved to my new house last year all I had to do was loosen it some with a scraper and vacuum it up with my shop vac (which I cleaned out first so I could reuse the ballast when rebuilding the layout). Some pieces around the edges came loose but they were far enough from the tracks so as not to matter to the engines. I used fish tank gravel for my ballast which may have made a difference and also may not have been the most prototypical choice but I liked it.

I can already  tell I am going to start posting like a mad man since I have had so many questions I wanted to ask but waited or searched for others to ask. Now that I am rebuilding my layout (for my kids) I am sure this will be the case.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Mr. M. Any type of ballast should be glued. Otherwise, it will simply spread out due to vibration. Don't worry about the glue making it permanent. Use 1 part white glue to 2 parts water. When you need to remove your track, just soak the ballast with water for a bit and it will come right up.  

[waltrapp]

I ballast my Christmas layout using chicken grit.  Obviously I can't glue it.

Believe me, it's a pain at times.  People mention vibration spreading it out and that's true.  But what else happens in the natural course of running our trains is that things bump the ballast and spread it out too.  A derailment, the cuff on your shirt when you reach for something, etc.

It looks pretty bad when it starts straying from the track.  I like nice sharp edges but it's very hard to keep it that way.  I'm constantly tidying up mine. 

- walt

[jonadel]

Here's what we did:

1. Wet water=3 or 4 drops of dish detergent into about a cup of water. Soak down the ballast with the mix, try not to do more than a few feet at a time.

2. Mix your Elmers white glue and water in another container and put it on top of what you just did. It works great.

Jon

Here's the proof--
http://jands.logicalgeek.com/main.php

[Buckeye Riveter]

I use the ground up rubber ballast from Scenic Express and I really like it.

[Anonymous]

Jonadel is right. I forgot to mention the wet water step. That's extremely important. The dish detergent breaks up the surface tension of the water thereby allowing the glue mixture to be distributed evenly throughout the ballast. If you don't use the wet water, the glue will puddle up on top of the ballast. When it dries you'll end up with a hard crust on top of loose ballast. You should also use the wet water for other scenery applications.

[luther_stanton]

What do you typically use to apply the glue - spray it on with one of those scenery sprayers, eye dropper, just pour it out of the mixing bowl?  Also, do you put tape down on the rails to keep them from getting any of the glue on them?

Thanks,

Luther

[FJ and G]

use sifted crusher fines and water-diluted concrete bonding adhesive; most realistic ballast and the adhesive will hold it together but allow easy dissassembly

[Anonymous]

I use 8 oz applicator bottles. They're available on my website: http://www.brennansmodelrr.com 

The bottles allow you to apply the wet water and the glue mixtures between the ties. I do not recommend using a sprayer.

 

[Jumijo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"> I ballast my Christmas layout using chicken grit.&nbsp; Obviously I can't glue it.

Believe me, it's a pain at times.&nbsp; People mention vibration spreading it out and that's true.&nbsp; But what else happens in the natural course of running our trains is that things bump the ballast and spread it out too.&nbsp; A derailment, the cuff on your shirt when you reach for something, etc.

It looks pretty bad when it starts straying from the track.&nbsp; I like nice sharp edges but it's very hard to keep it that way.&nbsp; I'm constantly tidying up mine.&nbsp; </

- walt
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>


Walt,

I didn't know that you can't glue chicken grit. Try this and see if it works for you: Spray the chicken grit ballast with some cheap super hold hair spray. When it's dry, clean off the track in your usual way. I'll bet the ballast holds with the hair spray.

Jim

[trainbrain]

Glueing is a must for all the reasons stated already.  It just LOOKS so much better and is cleaner,too

I did a post a while back about stretching ballast because it is expensive. I was the artist formally known as qqqman!  In the post I mentioned using stone dust as a base and just a Light covering of ballast on top and  with a few fine black cinders mixed in it comes out nice.  The stone dust really stretches that ballast.  After glueing, it's a solid roadbed because the stone dust really takes hold.  It's color is a great match for medium gray coarse ballast.

To add or repair is not a problem.  Just add your accessory, etc and then repair the track the same way

[cnw1995]

I was one of the 'loose ballast-ers,' but never again. It didn't move nor scatter - but it was a gigantic pain to deal with when taking down the layout.  I'm not ballasting the track on this layout exceptt in a few places where I'm using roof tiles for a more 'symbolic' look.

[perry1060]

Definitely glue it down, and it's much easier to paint later with oil spills and grime. I used a mix of 1/2 water and 1/2 white glue,  which seems to have worked well.

[Gillty]

Thanks everyone for all of the replies.  I'll definitely glue it down.

Now I just have to decide what to glue down.... I didn't know of some of the other ballast options. I'm guessing I can find the chicken grit at a farm supply store (like Farm and Fleet in the Chicagoland area) but where do I find crusher fines?  I'll look into the rubber ballast and aquarium rocks too.  

Thanks,

Rich

[Buckeye Riveter]

Crusher fines can be found at most stone suppliers for landscaping.  The stone supplier has this big yard filled with all types of rocks to use for landscaping and "bins" where the crushed stone is kept.  I believe crusher fines are #9 .

Home Deport and Lowes do not carry #9 in this area of the country, but they might somewhere else.

I really like the rubber ballast from Scenic Express.  It is reusable.  I'm thinking of trying to dye it to get a differnt color.

Here is a photo of the ballast in place using MTH RealTrak.

[Anonymous]

What do you typically use to apply the glue - spray it on with one of those scenery sprayers, eye dropper, just pour it out of the mixing bowl?  Also, do you put tape down on the rails to keep them from getting any of the glue on them?

Thanks,

Luther

I use an old atomizer (the kind used for women's perfumes) to apply the "wetting agent" mist (water with a few drops of liquid dishwashing detergent) and I use an eyedropper to dispense the glue mixture (glue/water/detergent) onto the pre-wetted ballast.

As for the ballast itself:  I've always used Woodland Scenics or a similar product for my indoor pikes in all scales (from Z through O gauge).  I used crusher fines--which I consider far too large for O gauge, even in their smallest forms--on my Large Scale garden railroads (as do most of the folks in the garden railroad clubs I've belonged to over the years).

I've found that many O gauge hobbyists tend to use ballast that is too large (some modelers in the smaller scales also do this).  If I'm doing an HO layout, for example, I'll often use N scale ballast instead of HO ballast.  As far as I am concerned, aquarium gravel and the like is just far too large (stone size) for O gauge unless the toy train layout look is what you're going for.

[trainbrain]

! more thing.  As an applicator, I use a turkey baster found in any supermarket!