Sleepers and Duds

[Anonymous]

The new February issue of CTT has a good article about sleepers and duds from Lionel/AF pre-war/post-war days.

I strongly disagree with the #52 Fire Car being listed as a dud. Makes you wonder if the author has ever lived near a train track. My family's house backs up to the "Main Line" of the PRR (now owned by Amtrak and used for their Philly to Pittsbugh and western service, and used extensively by SEPTA for local commuter trains along the "R5" line). I was also a volunteer firefighter for 4 years. I can tell you that every single year we had track fires along that line. When the dry leaves are coming down, the sparking from the engines leads to fires. It is a pain in the butt getting access to much of the line due to extensively developed residential and commercial properties all along the line. It sure would have been incredibly useful to have a #52 Fire Car to go along the tracks. Fire companies have a wide assortment of specialized tools for specialized application. They do not just have a big pump with a hose running out of it. It is entirely "real world" plausible that a railroad or fire company could have a unit similar in concept to the #52 Fire Car.

I'm not sure about his criticism of the gantry cranes (from the online supplemental part of the article). I have the modern version of the Gantry Crane with clamshell bucket, and it works really well. He did say that he was focusing on the PW stuff, so maybe Lionel improved the thing before the recent issuance of the electromagnet and clamshell gantry cranes.

I'll tell you one other thing, I am going out to get me one of those #52 Fire cars. I never really thought about it until this article and now I want one.

[Anonymous]

Remember he said it was his own personal opinion and expected readers to differ from him.

[1688torpedo]

I think that 1688s are sleepers and that anything with bad electronics qualify as Duds.[:)][;)].

[superwarp1]

Had no problem with Lionel smoke system and smoke pellets. Worked pretty good for me. Wonder what the auther was smoking[:o)] Just joking

Gary

[cbojanower]

Proof that the 52 Fire Car was not too far off , taken last summer in Nevada while aboard the 3985 going through a range fire (an awesome expirience)






Also Ogden Utah has a tower in the railyard which looks alot like the Lionel Control tower

[cbq9911a]

Another sleeper - the MPC boxcars from 1970 - 1975. The early ones with metal door guides and Timken trucks are real sleepers.

[ChiefEagles]

Yes guys, saw that over on OGR forum. Some pretty good photos.

[Bob Keller]

I think the guys on the OGR forum are over-thinking the piece. We wanted to get people talking and we certainly have!

Note that we solicited reader input.

Our big brother magazine, Trains, did this a few years back ("Over rated and under rated") and they received some pretty good commentary from readers.

[cnw1995]

I love debating these sorts of articles - squawking 'how can he think that!' and providing my own overdetailed rationale and list is most fun. Can't wait to read it!

[Kooljock1]

Mr. Overlord,

I don't think anyone thinks the article concept is bad per se, we're just arguing over the choices...which is EXACTLY what the author intended.

Bravo!

For myself, I agree with the positive choices, especially the MPC tooled Baby Madison cars. Although an honorable mention for the current crop with the fully-detailed interiors and over-head lighting would have been good.

I find the cattle cars can be made to work flawlessly, as can the milk cars. The later, larger versions work better than the shorty earlier versions.

I've seen both the PW and modern Culvert Loader/Unloaders in action, and I think they're all duds. I have the modern versions on my layout.

The Forklift loader is without a doubt the BIG SLEEPER of the PW era, with perfect performance of a realistic unloading event, at a scale size.

Keep 'em coming CTT! It's great food for thought.

Jon [8D]

[Buckeye Riveter]

I liked the article and the reasons why the author thought that it was a sleeper or a dud. I didn't agree with him one bit on the fire car, but it is his opinion.

I think the biggest dud is O Gauge Couplers that were not mentioned. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work. Brand A won't work with Brand B and they both won't work with Brand C. [xx(]

[cbojanower]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

I think the guys on the OGR forum are over-thinking the piece. We wanted to get people talking and we certainly have!

Note that we solicited reader input.

Our big brother magazine, Trains, did this a few years back ("Over rated and under rated") and they received some pretty good commentary from readers.

What?! They (We) overthinking things in the OGR forum.. NEVER :)

I have seen things beaten to death, dicussed to oblivion, hashed and rehashed, nitpicked and flamed.. but thinking is seldom a prerequisite [:p]

[superwarp1]

QUOTE: I think the guys on the OGR forum are over-thinking the piece. We wanted to get people talking and we certainly have!

I been a subscriber to CTT longer than OGR. I just don't post much to this forum.

[Anonymous]

The Riveter say:
I think the biggest dud is O Gauge Couplers that were not mentioned. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work. Brand A won't work with Brand B and they both won't work with Brand C.

Well, Buckeye, this is supposed to be a hobby, and some of my most productive moments (notice I didn't necessarily say enjoyable) have been figuring out ways to make poorly designed couplers work. Had one a while back that would uncouple every time it passed over an actuator track (even unenergized) in one direction, but would not actuate even if you tried to actuate it going the other way. It is the only one that ever stumped me. I finally gave up and replaced it. Anybody want a slightly used MTH button coupler?

[Jumijo]

The author made me want to keep an eye out for a Marx 666 at the next train show. He really raved about it! Same with the Lionel 1666. I see those at shows all the time for cheap money. Now they will probably sky rocket in price.

Jim

[dwiemer]

I am with jim, now I will be looking for the Marx 666 and Lionel 1666. Not sure about the firecar, I was a firefighter for >8 years and we had several tough fires on or near the tracks. Perhaps it would be usefull in a place with lots of rail traffic and potential for fires. I guess it would have more application in the days of steam with the firebox and all. Anyway, it is good that we can debate such issues and still be a friendly site, even to people who don't eat grits.
Dennis

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

The author made me want to keep an eye out for a Marx 666 at the next train show. He really raved about it! Same with the Lionel 1666. I see those at shows all the time for cheap money. Now they will probably sky rocket in price.

Jim

The "CTT Effect" almost never fails: whatever we see highlighted in the mag rises in price almost immediately. We'll also see a flood of them on eBay, which reaction often counters the first after the initial, newly-awakend demand is satisfied.

[1688torpedo]

Hello Jim & Joe! Give The Trading Post Train Shop in Cleveland a call at 1-216-661-7300 and ask for a Gent named Jim and see if he has any 1666s in his Backroom for sale. I've seen some there for sale at different times over the years and his prices are very reasonable and he'll ship out of State too! Take care. P.S. This is not a compensated endorsement.Only a recommendation![;)][:P][:)]

[trigtrax]

Any train I want to sell is a sleeper
Any train I want to buy is a dud [}:)]

[cnw1995]

trigtrax, that's a good one [:D] I've experienced the opposite: any train I want to sell seems to be a dud - any train I want to buy is someone's sleeper and impossible to find / afford.

[Anonymous]

Concerning the 1666 engine...I agree it looks more prototypical, drive wheel size-wise, than the 224, BUT, I love the Baldwin disc drivers on the 224, rather than the spoke drivers on the 1666. To each his own. Joe