FYI - Steel construction benchwork

[Brutus]

Hi - I was thumbing through some older issues and I noticed that in the article on building benchwork from steel construction materials that they supported at least some of the bench with angled pieces of steel track.

Just FYI - I've been using this stuff to finish my basement and I discovered that if you bend it, which is really not too hard to do, it is a real bugger to get back into shape - easier just to replace it. It's not really meant to bear vertical loads, just to hold cladding, like drywall or plywood. I was thinkin that if he ever pushes some boxes under there or something and bends one of those members, he could really mess up his track and the rest of his benchwork. It would seem like a good idea to clad those supports on both sides with some plywood (I would think that even just using 1/4 inch would do a lot to protect it).

[FJ and G]

Jim,

The sheet metal studs they sell at HD and Lowe's are flimsy. I looked into using "steel" stud to build a girder bridge but changed my mind when I saw a bunch of bent up studs.

IMO, sturdy benchwork should be at least 2x4s and some go bigger. Then, when you bump into the tablework or walk on it, it won't budge.

I'm not sure how the construction of steel benchwork works for those successful layouts.

Here's the stuff I'm talking about that I was thinking of using to build a girder bridge:

[Buckeye Riveter]

A great discussion was held on this topic some months ago: See this link:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=44579&REPLY_ID=479079#479079

Jim, I could see it bending as you descibed.

[daan]

Those flimsy steelwork is meant to be held in place by other construction materials. When used in a wall, the whole strocture is pretty stable, but as a stand alone I wouldn't use it.

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Buckeye,

Indeed a nice topic on that link. I see that Redhawk uses a chop saw to cut his metal.

I have a question regarding cutting metal.

I want to construct a very long deck girder bridge using copper, from a 2 inch copper plumbing pipe.

I've previously been able to do this by hammering the pipe flat and then cutting the edge with a pair of heavy duty tinsnips and then unfolding the 2 halves.

However, the cutting is rather tedius.

Do they make a cutting wheel for a standard size table saw that can be used to cut soft metals like copper? It could make my life much easier and would also be a good way to cut the angle pieces that go on a girder bridge.

[Brutus]

How thick is that copper?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Dave, sheet metal is generally cut with shears, though in the case of steel studs, a chop saw is used because the piece is already formed into a channel. For large flat pieces, metal shops have huge shears that are operated by a foot pedal, and work much like a guillotine.

Copper is a lousy material for anything structural, it's too soft. It is also more expensive than other materials. If you want something that you can solder, brass is the material of choice.

[Big_Boy_4005]

There are steel studs of different gauges. The lightest are commonly used in partition walls that carrry no structural load. As Daan said, they are extremely flimsy until another material is attached to them.

The photos I posted in the linked topic, were of a much heavier gauge steel stud.

[Brutus]

You can cut soft metal with most carbide blades, depending on thickness. Copper and brass for instance. If you don't want to wreck a blade, I would get a cheap (delta for about $90) benchtop bandsaw with a metal blade. Actually, a small bandsaw would probably come in useful for all kinds of things having to do with scratch building.

[Brutus]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JZZT/103-2186047-7355806?v=glance&n=228013&n=507846&s=hi&v=glance

[FJ and G]

Elliott,

The copper is just cosmetic, to go over pressure treated wood. I really don't have the $$ for the bandsaw at this time and was kinda hoping that the table saw would be the answer.

I'll go with the tinsnips I guess.

[Brutus]

You could do it on your tablesaw with a good carbide tipped blade - feed very slowly and be sure to use some kind of push-stick or other device. Wood Magazine and others have had several articles on using brass or copper that is cut with carbide blades for decorative pieces. I guess you could cut the pipe in half lengthwise, then flatten it and cut it into appropriate strips.

[Anonymous]

OK, this blade isn't meant for a table saw but you might be able to find one like it that is meant for a table saw.

http://www.twacomm.com/catalog/model_EY9PM11D.htm?sid=1DD354E5E4700

Electricians had one at work and they were cutting U-channel and conduit like it was aluminum foil. Saw it is intended for what looks like a small battery operated circular saw.

[lionelsoni]

There might be a significant difference between cutting rigid and flexible copper tubing, which is much softer.

[Anonymous]

Here's the saw that the blade is supposed to go with. Original price several years ago was closer to $600.

http://www.toolmarts.com/pan_eyc136.html


I use a reciprocating saw with a metal cuting blade (and spray on lubricant) to cut metal, soft or otherwise.

[mackb4]

Is this metal galvinized? Will it rust in most basements? How about the interferense level with remote control layouts? I think there is to many variables to using metal.Looks like you would have to ground a layout outside the house to use metal 2x4's in construction.

[Anonymous]

I am using the metal studs that were pictured above for making an upper level of my layout. They are fine in terms of strength. I would not step or sit on them, nor will I need to. But they sure do hold up trackwork nicely and they do not sag. You can not just take a 10 foot section and attach it daintily at each end and then send your 15 car train over it, but if you cut it down (I am using lengths of 6 feet in places where I can not use a bridge that really relies on its piers for actually supporting the bridge). This is being done where one track runs over top of another one, and the lower track has stuff next to it (like the wall on one side) that make it impossible to put real supports in place to hold it up. The metal stud holds it up, and then I put in some cosmetic "bridge piers". It is working well. I guess you could ask why I am not simply using some type of wood. Well, plywood would definitely warp and sag. 2x4's would also sag if not supported with real structural support, i.e., real piers that are not merely cosmetic. But real piers would not be possible for my layout in the areas where I have the metal studs.

[fwright]

I've said this before, but a few may like the idea. Box beams built with 1x3 sides, 1/4 in plywood top and bottom, with 2 inch extruded foam glued inside make very rigid, lightweight girders and bridges. Depth of beam ends up at 2.5 inches, width what you want it, length easily up to 8ft. Longer lengths depend on source of longer 1x3s - I've ripped them from 12ft 2x4s in the past. Subroadbed already in place! Paint the sides where exposed to be a bridge truss.

yours in beaming
Fred Wright[:)]

[FJ and G]

I'm not sure what box beams are but I'll take a guess. It's steel in box shape. If so, these are definitely strong in both the vertical as well as the horizontal.

Recently in my area, stop signs have been affixed to box beams. In the strongest gale forced winds, I've never once seen these babies bend; and wind can put tremendous force loads on these "sails".

Other steel not in box shape does, however, bend.

The drawback to the box beams is their expense and difficulty of finding them at HD or Lowe's.

[Anonymous]

Box beam is a type of beam. It doesn't necessarily refer to a particular material. Fred used plywood and foam. The side walls re-inforce each other to stiffen the beam and carry the load.

This type of technique is in opposition to 2x lumber or 1" L-girder or a fabricated I-beam. You can make a light weight but extremely strong span by combining materials with properties that compliment each other rather than using brute force solutions (aka heavier conventional materials or "conventional" means). Take a look at the long span solutions being used in house construction. Fabricated/engineered wooden I beams or use of fabricated metal trusses to allow for large open space basements. Conventional construction would have used multiple 2x12's, structural piers/columns, or even intermediate structural walls.

You may want to look at antenna mast material. These "tubes" are very rigid but reasonably lightweight. A "tube" is yet another structural element, Firth od Forth railroad bridge is made up of fabricated steel tubes.

[Brutus]

I was in the office today instead of working at home - fyi, I talked with a buddy of mine who is always working with steel and other metals. He recommended you buy a special metal cutting blade and just use it in your tablesaw instead of in a circular saw. We also think you should probably make a special hold-down or a jig out or plywood to keep the pipe flat and to keep it from "spinning" while you are cutting, so you don't get a super-nasty punch in the gut. If the pipe binds up on the blade, it will shoot right back at you. You might want to wear some padding or a leather coat or something.

Good luck!